What's up with the 1911

[Old Fuff]

The Government Model is unusual in that it came about as the result of evolutionary development rather then something that was simply blueprinted and put into production. John Browning and Colt, over a period of 10 years or so, would make a prototype and the army would test it. Following an after-action report the gun’s designer would modify the prototype and submit a new gun for testing – and so it went. By the time the final version emerged in 1910 the bugs were pretty well worked out – so much so that the guns being made today aren’t substantially changed mechanically from the first ones.

The pistol remains popular because it is unusually reliable and accurate (if made the way the originators intended) and a relatively light, crisp trigger pull allows the user to take full advantage of it’s other commendable features.

It should be noted that later pistol designs frequently incorporate Browning’s short-recoil barrel locking system. Currently the only major manufacturer that doesn’t is Beretta.

 

[happyguy]

In the 70's, 80's, and early 90's I tried all the latest and most popular S&W's, SIG's, H&K's, Glock's, Beretta's, and Browning auto's. I also shot and carried a S&W Mod 15, Colt Trooper Mk IV (I think), and S&W 586.

After a lot of shooting and carrying of various firearms I have concluded that the 1911 design is the best personal defense implement that man has yet devised, with the H&K USP coming in second. Why would I want to carry anything else? It's not like I'm not open minded, I've put in the time and I've spent the money and made my choice, thanks.

Regards,
Happyguy

 

[NewShooter78]

After firing a few different pistols, I decided on the 1911 and haven't looked back. IF, I had to get rid of my other weapons except one, I'd keep the 1911.

 

[lycanthrope]

I was double action kind of guy until I shot a good Kimber and realized my groups shrank tenfold. The 1911 is just easy to shoot well for many people.

 

[Kodiak AK]

Re:#3 For the last ten years a 1911 made a lot of sense. Why carry a fat oversized 10rnd 9mm, when you could carry a slim 7 rnd .45 ACP?


I have to admit no matter how much the AWB sucked , one good thing to come out of it was all of these ultra compact ccw peices .

 

[Mute]

So what's the deal? Have I missed something?

Haven't shot alot of 1911s have you?

 

[ReadyontheRight]

-Trigger
-Caliber starts with a 4 and ends with a 5
-Just plain old feels "right"

 

[Swamprabbit]

I can only speak for me personally. I have had revolvers for most of my 40 years and still do. They have their place for me, I prefer the 1911 for most all applications, except hunting, for these reasons:

-I can get a shot on target more quickly
-Easy to carry due to being slim
-Reliable - just don't have ANY problems. Have had good quality S&W revolvers lock up due to powder granules under the extractor
-Can have rounds hitting the target about twice as fast than with a revolver
-Other autos, with the exception of the High Power, either just don't fit me or I don't like the triggers.

Plus, shooting cast bullets and reloading my own, it is dirt cheap to shoot.

No knocking the other types, just my personal preferences.

 

[Grayrider]

Should we really keep answering questions like this? Before I learned the 1911 I always looked at those who were good with them in a sort of mystical way. It was as though they were masters of arcane martial arts or the legendary gunfighters of the old West. Lets keep the mystique going and leave those ignorant of our ways in the dark. No, you aren't missing something.



GR

 

[happyguy]

I think that if the H&K engineers were to really put their minds to it, they could bring the ol' 1911 into the 21st century.

How about a polymer pistol with a slimmed down H&K USP top end, a truly modular trigger system that could be changed out for single action, double action only, or SA/DA, an extended thumb safety that would also lock the slide, a modular safety/decocker system, a grip that mimics the 1911 in size, shape and angle, and a 12 +1 capacity in .45 acp.

They might not convert a lot of JMB diehards but I bet they would sell a ton of them.

Regards,
Happyguy

 

[Boats]

HK does finally get it, I heard they were working with Larry Vickers to bring out an actual 1911A1 style pistol.

 

[andrew17]

Are you missing something? Nah
(Shh,,dont tell him, more guns for us )

 

[jamz]

Nostalgia and Tradition to the 1911 is like hunting to the RKBA. It's not the point at all.

The 1911 is simply still the best tool for the job in so many applications. That's why it's popular. Is it the best tool for all applications, bar none? Of course not. But it's good at so many varied things, that it remains popular today.

-James

 

[raz-0]

coming from someone who was a staunch proponent of the new, and fairly against the 1911, well I LOVE my 1911. At least after I discovered a good gun grease rather than just oil.

The low bore axis if you use a beavertail grip safety, the nice single action trigger, the grip angle, the balance.

They really work for me. For what a handgun is supposed to do, it does it's job much better than a large portion of the market. You make the task less generic and focus one one or two aspects, and the design absolutely dominates there. (bullseye and IPSC jsut off the top of my head)

Is everything else inferior? Not at all. BUt it excells at what I consider the essential gun values.
(in no particular order)
1)low bore axis
2)balance
3)trigger
4)safe internals

I have a number of handguns. My 1911 and my baby eagle are the two darlings of my collection. They both score relatively high on those 4 critera.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

Well, to be honest, I used to own a 1911 type pistol, and I suppose it was partly due to my bad experiences with the gun that I've been wondering what all the hubub was about. It was a ParaOrdnance P14 (one thing I never understood was the "advantage" or 7 rounds in the mag... which is about as low as possible). Anyway, the extractor design just seemed to suck and contribute to overall unreliability... I guessed this was mostly due to the extrator not being spring loaded, as is the case on just about every other automatic made since.

Then after putting a thousand or so more rounds through it, I loaded up, dropped the slide, and BANG! slamfire! Good thing the gun was pointed in a safe direction... but wow! The hammer kept following the slide over and over again, which I attributed to the old design of the 1911's trigger sear setup.

Sold the gun, but like some of you have said, I liked the idea of an all steel, single action automatic, so I bought myself a 1911 V 2.0... aka Browning Hi Power. Much better, IMO. 'Course, the P7's nice too.

Also, I'd like to point out that most of this "awesome" stuff that 1911 has is only due to the fact that the entire gun industry is hell bent on customizing the 1911. There are literally dozens of shops cranking out $2000+ 1911's, the same can't be said for any other automatic. I mean, if I put 2 grand into a Lorcin it would kick some butt too! Seems to me though, that dollar for dollar, the 1911 is NOT very reliable, which is the most important factor in a fighting handgun.

 

[lycanthrope]

The 1911 is to the American handgunner as the Harley Davidson is to the American 'cyclist.

It has it's faults and has been highly customized to compensate. It is capable of excellent performance. It is an American icon.

 

[Sean Smith]

It was a ParaOrdnance P14

That pretty much says it all.

Also, I'd like to point out that most of this "awesome" stuff that 1911 has is only due to the fact that the entire gun industry is hell bent on customizing the 1911.

Um, no. But if it makes you feel superior to think so, go right on thinking it.

Then after putting a thousand or so more rounds through it, I loaded up, dropped the slide, and BANG! slamfire! Good thing the gun was pointed in a safe direction... but wow! The hammer kept following the slide over and over again, which I attributed to the old design of the 1911's trigger sear setup.

Um, no. Your ignorance is showing... go figure. Para uses cheap cast parts for everything in their guns, hence their higher rate of parts failure compared to better 1911s. Anyone who has actually SEEN the components of the 1911's "ignition system" would know that it is much more robust by design than most of the "modern" autoloaders out there. Certainly it has no "trigger sear" problems, since there is a trigger, and a sear, but not a "trigger sear."

Anyway, the extractor design just seemed to suck and contribute to overall unreliability... I guessed this was mostly due to the extrator not being spring loaded, as is the case on just about every other automatic made since.

On what basis do you make this comment? Your vast expertise in weapons design? What exactly is your basis for drawing these conclusions? Because from here it looks like your honest answer would be, "pulling stuff out of my butt."

Seems to me though, that dollar for dollar, the 1911 is NOT very reliable, which is the most important factor in a fighting handgun.

Funny, the Army didn't think so when it ran them through 6,000 round qualification trials. FBI and LAPD SWAT and MEU-SOC recon folks don't seem to think so, either. Certainly, since you can't win a match with a jammed gun in IPSC or USPSA, the folks dominating those matches aren't having problems with this lack of reliability you seem so certain of based on a sample size of... one. Oooh, your case is so compelling, why hadn't these hopless nostalgics seen the 1911's unreliability earlier?

 

[Rich357]

Now that the Glock 37 is here the 1911 sales will slip drastically.

There are a lot of "other than 1911s" being sold these days. However, the current crop of high end production, or limited production, 1911s are selling well because they are very fine shooting tools. They may not fit every shooting situation but are amazingly accurate, rugged and reliable. These new clones are quite different from the early 1911s. They have kept up with the times.

Rich

 

[Alfadog]

I mean, if I put 2 grand into a Lorcin it would kick some butt too!

No it wouldn't. It would still be what it was when you started: a P.O.S. Which is why no other pistol is as customized as the 1911--none have the potential to be much more than they already are.

On the other hand, a properly tuned 1911 is reliable, duirable, easy to maintain, easy to carry, and has great ergonomics due to the slim grip (a result of having a single stack magazine). Most importantly, it is the easiest pistol in the world to hit with fast.

Of course, the same is true of most stock 1911s these days. While I carry a custom 1911, I'd still prefer a quaity stock 1911 to any other type of pistol I can think of. They are not as refined as custom pieces, but I believe most of them run fine. Of the ones that not reliable out of the box, I suspect most could be fixed by the installation of a quality extractor--which costs all of about $30 installed (part and labor).

 

[Waitone]

Beware the temptation of drawying iron clad conlusions based on a sample size of one.

I use a 1911. From the beginning I had a problem with failure to feed. then one day the factory mag welds failed and the entire guts of the mag blew out the handle and onto the floor. Not happy. I investigate and found the manufacturer had since move to a nother supplier. I purchased 4 Wilson combat 8 round mags and I've yet to have a failure to fire.

Sometime later I sensed the trigger was getting a little mushy. One day at the range the 1911 went auto and popped three rounds. An hour later it did the same thing. A quick call to the mfg and 3 days later I had a new fire control system.

Since then I've had no trouble. None.

No thing made by man is perfect. Guns are about as reliable as they come. That is the first point. My second point is while the Para-O looks like a 1911 it in fact a modification of the basic design. When I was researching my purchase I was clearly told the Para-O had a great DA trigger but it was not up to a 1911. So when you evaluate new firearms make sure you evaluate them on the basis of what they are, not what they appear to be.

 

[Ankeny]

How do you reall feel Sean? Don't hold back now.

At first I thought the guy was probably asking a legitmate question. Looks like he is just trolling for an argument and we took the bait. Afterall, no one can be that ignorant...can they?

 

[Marshall]

If I could buy "indifferent" 1911's and have a pistol that needed nothing to make me happy with it, I would load up on them! But, at the $C'ching$ you have to lay out for a bad boy, I imagine I will only own one.

 

[Quintin Likely]

Why the 1911?

I started off handgunning with Sigs...then a Glock...then a 1911. I haven't found an autoloader that points so well, balances so good, and has (relatively speaking) a better trigger than a 1911.

Thoughtfully screwed together with good parts, they're freaky reliable and pretty darn accurate. There's billions and billions of parts out there to make a 1911 whatever you want. Even the full size 5" guns are unbelievable concealable for a duty sized automatic. They're available in all shapes and sizes. They're chambered in a miriad of calibers, .45 auto, .38 Super, 10mm, 9x19 and a handful of wildcats. Parts are readily available from several suppliers. Of course they don't appeal to everyone, but that's why there's all sorts of different manufacturers out there.

To me, the 1911 is just "it." It just feels right.

 

[BluesBear]

Seems to me though, that dollar for dollar, the 1911 is NOT very reliable, which is the most important factor in a fighting handgun.

Where did you get that impression?

I have noticed a lot more threads from owners lamenting the disfunctions of their high priced 1911 Uberpistols than I have from the owners of Colt 1991A1s. Talk to the dozens of satisfied Springfield Mil-Spec owners on this board alone.

Talk to the people on this board who own several (or a lot) or reliable 1911 pattern pistols.

Why is it that almost everyone is making a 1911 clone. If they are all such unreliable pistols why are so many people buying them? Name another semi-automatic pistol that has been in continuous production for 92 years?

Why? For the same reasons S&W still makes the Model 10.
For the same reasons Winchester still makes the Model 94
For the same reasons Remington still makes the 700
For the same reasons Ruger still makes the Blackhawk
For the same reasons Ford stopped making the Pinto
For the same reasons the military and police long ago gave up on the Luger.
For the same reasons you can still buy a watch with 3 hands that you still have to manually wind.

if I put 2 grand into a Lorcin it would kick some butt too!

How are we supposed to take anything said after that seriously?
Even G. Banger Baggypants and his hoodbrothers would bust out laughing at that statement.

 

[WonderNine]

My biggest problem with 1911's is that they should all be 10mm's, 9X23's and .45 Supers at 600-750 ft/lbs.

Rather than weaker than a .40....

I'm thinking of turning a Norinco into a .45 Super someday....