armabill
Member
They probably don't have one and are going by hearsay. Say something untrue long enough, it becomes fact.
Take him to the range and let him shoot it.
Take him to the range and let him shoot it.
What's wrong with people who are bashing .45's?
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HBAR & grille
Member
mmmkay. .45acp is my favorite round. shoot it from a Glock regularly. no prob.
otoh, I shoot Sig. P239 or P225... so I'm used to 8 rounds.
my best bud handed me his MkII Kimber 10. I shot it until it stopped... at about 8 rounds. He shouted at me "RACK IT!" uh, huh?
I repied, hey, it's not a SIG, to which he replied "RECOVER, you *******!"
uh, what?...
the bottom of the story is that he thought I was making fun of his practiced ability to recover from a FTF... but I wasn't aware I was shooting an 11 shot 1911. oop.
otoh, I guess I'm not practiced in recovering in a FTF. Funny experience, and good lesson for both of us.
otoh, I shoot Sig. P239 or P225... so I'm used to 8 rounds.
my best bud handed me his MkII Kimber 10. I shot it until it stopped... at about 8 rounds. He shouted at me "RACK IT!" uh, huh?
I repied, hey, it's not a SIG, to which he replied "RECOVER, you *******!"
uh, what?...
the bottom of the story is that he thought I was making fun of his practiced ability to recover from a FTF... but I wasn't aware I was shooting an 11 shot 1911. oop.
otoh, I guess I'm not practiced in recovering in a FTF. Funny experience, and good lesson for both of us.
Give me a box stock "shot out" POC 1911 and give those misguided fools whatever they want in a super duper 9mm, we will head off to the range and see what shakes out.
A real shooter that talks down to another mans choice in guns is so far and few between that you could put big money on this bet.
I like to shoot 9mm, it is cheap and recoil is light. Nothing wrong with the 9mm, the BHP and the M9 are darn fine guns in my opinion. For my house gun it will be 45, and only cause something bigger that I can control is not available
I was a Navy armorer. I had 26 1911A1 pistols in my inventory, NOT ONE of them would not shoot inside of 6" at 25 yards, NOT ONE. Most were in the 3.5" to 4" range, a couple at 6" and a couple at 2.5". Hit a man at 50 yards? Easily, with any of them.
The last guy that talked down to my 45 got his gong (maybe 14" across?) dented all to heck at 40 yards by ME, while he assaulted the ground and the backstop. He hit one in 30, I hit 14 out of 14, the challenge was two mags and see who gets the most hits. He won't talk to me anymore, and he leaves his gong in the car when I am shooting. No, I did not tell him that if we moved it out to 100 yards or a little further that his gun would have a distinct advantage either When he learns how to shoot and looses the attitude I might.
A real shooter that talks down to another mans choice in guns is so far and few between that you could put big money on this bet.
I like to shoot 9mm, it is cheap and recoil is light. Nothing wrong with the 9mm, the BHP and the M9 are darn fine guns in my opinion. For my house gun it will be 45, and only cause something bigger that I can control is not available
I was a Navy armorer. I had 26 1911A1 pistols in my inventory, NOT ONE of them would not shoot inside of 6" at 25 yards, NOT ONE. Most were in the 3.5" to 4" range, a couple at 6" and a couple at 2.5". Hit a man at 50 yards? Easily, with any of them.
The last guy that talked down to my 45 got his gong (maybe 14" across?) dented all to heck at 40 yards by ME, while he assaulted the ground and the backstop. He hit one in 30, I hit 14 out of 14, the challenge was two mags and see who gets the most hits. He won't talk to me anymore, and he leaves his gong in the car when I am shooting. No, I did not tell him that if we moved it out to 100 yards or a little further that his gun would have a distinct advantage either
When he learns how to shoot and looses the attitude I might.Bob Locke
Member
They're speaking from a position of ignorance. It's really just that simple. No one who knows diddly-poo about firearms bashes the .45 ACP for it's lack of accuracy past 25 yards.
My particular .45 ACP platform is a Glock 21, but I've shot plenty of 1911's and know I can get COM hits out to 50 yards with all but the worst of them.
Schuey2002
Member
"What's wrong with people who are bashing .45's?"
They have .45 caliber ENVY !!
They have .45 caliber ENVY !!
Tamara
Senior Member
"One true sword-ers" of any stripe (.45, Glock, 1911, 9mm, whatever) should have your pity, not your scorn.
isaidme
Member
Have your friends stand 30yards out with their palms up and open,then put a can in each hand!
91101
Member
The answer to your question is ignorance! Or maybe thay don't like the fact that yours is bigger than thiers The fact it that I'd rather have a .22 in my hands than nothin' when the bad guy shows up.
Michael
The fact it that I'd rather have a .22 in my hands than nothin' when the bad guy shows up.Michael
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45-auto
Member
Well, there's not much observance of the old rule about minding your own business these days.
I personally don't care for the 9mm. I've heard about too many cases where people absorbed a whole lot of 9mm slugs and kept moving.
But, if 9mm rings YOUR gong, go right ahead.
If you like guns, chances are I'd like you.
And I really don't care about what you pack.
And your opinion of my favorite round is, in my view, not really material.
I personally don't care for the 9mm. I've heard about too many cases where people absorbed a whole lot of 9mm slugs and kept moving.
But, if 9mm rings YOUR gong, go right ahead.
If you like guns, chances are I'd like you.
And I really don't care about what you pack.
And your opinion of my favorite round is, in my view, not really material.
chieftain
Member
Interesting thread, several issues rolled in to one.
Not a damn thing wrong with the 45acp
now lets talk about the platform called the 1911 jammamatic.
Why do you folks tink for 70 years the police stuck with the revolvers? one word, reliability.
I think the 1911 is a great target and play gun, some folks are even using them for serious social work. But the fact is unless it is a psuedo custom or custom pistol and very expensive, it won't work properly or not for long. I am sure there are some execptions to the rule.
By the way a guy earlier was stating that the 1911 was still going strong in competition, yup real custom 38super guns!
I got rid of my 1911 in Viet Nam and carried a S&W 38 Revolver, unlike my buddies 1911, it went bang every time! I was just trying to get home alive. Choose the best tool for the job at the time. As a Marine grunt I could not afford a Hi power, so I carried the Smith. No problem.
Most of the A teams I ran into in Laos and North Western Viet Nam were carring Hi powers!
When Smith came out with the model 66 I traded my 21/2" 19 (this was a mistake) for a 3" model 66 and in the late 80's or early 90's when the became available i had night sights put on it.
Didn't find a Semi Auto I would trust until 1992. And that is a story unto it's self.
So flame away
Fred
Not a damn thing wrong with the 45acp
now lets talk about the platform called the 1911 jammamatic.
Why do you folks tink for 70 years the police stuck with the revolvers? one word, reliability.
I think the 1911 is a great target and play gun, some folks are even using them for serious social work. But the fact is unless it is a psuedo custom or custom pistol and very expensive, it won't work properly or not for long. I am sure there are some execptions to the rule.
By the way a guy earlier was stating that the 1911 was still going strong in competition, yup real custom 38super guns!
I got rid of my 1911 in Viet Nam and carried a S&W 38 Revolver, unlike my buddies 1911, it went bang every time! I was just trying to get home alive. Choose the best tool for the job at the time. As a Marine grunt I could not afford a Hi power, so I carried the Smith. No problem.
Most of the A teams I ran into in Laos and North Western Viet Nam were carring Hi powers!
When Smith came out with the model 66 I traded my 21/2" 19 (this was a mistake) for a 3" model 66 and in the late 80's or early 90's when the became available i had night sights put on it.
Didn't find a Semi Auto I would trust until 1992. And that is a story unto it's self.
So flame away
Fred
Flame away ?
No reason for that .
You made a logical decision based on experience , not assumption .
Others here are convinced that their 1911's are reliable and make their decision based on their own experiences .
As far as the police sidearm revolver vs auto debate goes , I'm not going to argue or debate . Only throw out another opinion . My feelings are that it was based on the cost of the weapon , but possibly more important , the training aspect . The revolver is much easier to train a new recruit to operate as compared to a single action auto .
Mitch
No reason for that .
You made a logical decision based on experience , not assumption .
Others here are convinced that their 1911's are reliable and make their decision based on their own experiences .
As far as the police sidearm revolver vs auto debate goes , I'm not going to argue or debate . Only throw out another opinion . My feelings are that it was based on the cost of the weapon , but possibly more important , the training aspect . The revolver is much easier to train a new recruit to operate as compared to a single action auto .
Mitch
Bottom Gun
Member
The people putting down the .45 probably never had one or never had one that would shoot.
These guys keep telling me that .45 isn't gonna hit anything past 25 yards and that I better spend money of them newer 9mm guns out there (Sig, HK, Glock and such).
Boy thats a real hoot. Tell those guys to come to an NRA bullseye match shot at 50 yards and observe what caliber and type of weapon is being used. I seriously doubt if you will see any other weapon except the 1911 chambered for the .45 acp and they will all be shooting 2 inch groups offhand at 50 yards.
Ask the boys if they can shoot this well with their weapons. Facts are they probably can't come close, either because of skill or because of the accuracy of the 9mm weapons that they are using.
Not that the 9mm is an inaccurate cartridge. It is very accurate, its just that there are very few stock weapons out there that shoot as well as the .45 bullseye guns. I have even seen a lot of completely stock 1911's out shoot the garden variety out of the box 9mm's.
Boy thats a real hoot. Tell those guys to come to an NRA bullseye match shot at 50 yards and observe what caliber and type of weapon is being used. I seriously doubt if you will see any other weapon except the 1911 chambered for the .45 acp and they will all be shooting 2 inch groups offhand at 50 yards.
Ask the boys if they can shoot this well with their weapons. Facts are they probably can't come close, either because of skill or because of the accuracy of the 9mm weapons that they are using.
Not that the 9mm is an inaccurate cartridge. It is very accurate, its just that there are very few stock weapons out there that shoot as well as the .45 bullseye guns. I have even seen a lot of completely stock 1911's out shoot the garden variety out of the box 9mm's.
I must be of a different breed than most of you
I could care less what anyone thinks of my choice of weapon, be it cartridge fired or the tool that launches it.
At the very least, it would be the last thing that upsets me - too much other stuff to be concerned with to worry about what Cowboy Joe thinks of my sidearm choice.
But - to each his own. Personally, of the 10 different cartridges I have handguns chambered for 9x19 isn't one of them - and if it ever is, will be because I buy a clean Hi-Power just because I always wanted one.
I have multiple .45ACP pistols, & need to get a .45 revolver. Love that round!
I could care less what anyone thinks of my choice of weapon, be it cartridge fired or the tool that launches it.
At the very least, it would be the last thing that upsets me - too much other stuff to be concerned with to worry about what Cowboy Joe thinks of my sidearm choice.
But - to each his own. Personally, of the 10 different cartridges I have handguns chambered for 9x19 isn't one of them - and if it ever is, will be because I buy a clean Hi-Power just because I always wanted one.
I have multiple .45ACP pistols, & need to get a .45 revolver. Love that round!
cardboardkiller
Member
I love the .45 and have a couple, but don't be mad when I blow by you at a match with my 38 Super.
VaughnT
Member
I had to endure some ribbing at my last Qual shoot in NC. The instructor had the ubiquitous Glock 9/40 and the others had Rugers, Smiths, etc. I was the only one using a Colt .45 and they all laughed at the weight or ancient design.
Of all the folks there to qualify (remember, this was job-related stuff, not some like-to-have game), I was the only one to show up with a full shooting bag that contained everything I might need to repair a breakage, or just clean and lube. And, yes, they were quick to say that I needed all that stuff because I was carrying a dinosaur.
I brought my own ammunition. I laughed at everyone as they laughed at me. I picked on their tactical tupperware and didn't fault the instructor for carrying a Glock. "No, Sir, I don't fault anyone for carrying a glock. Heck, when I'm an old man, I'll probably need something easier to carry, too."
After two days of classroom ribbing, we hit the range. Standing, kneeling, prone. Strong hand, weak hand. Reloads, no reload. Lights on, lights off. Time limits short.
All that talk. Who scored a perfect 500/500? Who was the fastest? I guess I'll stick with my girl....you can keep you wondernines or whatever.
Of all the folks there to qualify (remember, this was job-related stuff, not some like-to-have game), I was the only one to show up with a full shooting bag that contained everything I might need to repair a breakage, or just clean and lube. And, yes, they were quick to say that I needed all that stuff because I was carrying a dinosaur.
I brought my own ammunition. I laughed at everyone as they laughed at me. I picked on their tactical tupperware and didn't fault the instructor for carrying a Glock. "No, Sir, I don't fault anyone for carrying a glock. Heck, when I'm an old man, I'll probably need something easier to carry, too."
After two days of classroom ribbing, we hit the range. Standing, kneeling, prone. Strong hand, weak hand. Reloads, no reload. Lights on, lights off. Time limits short.
All that talk. Who scored a perfect 500/500? Who was the fastest? I guess I'll stick with my girl....you can keep you wondernines or whatever.
nascarnhlnra
Member
They all have caliber envy ! I'd bet none have offered to stand at say 30 yards to find out. LOL
I'd bet none have offered to stand at say 30 yards to find out. LOLPCRCCW
Member
Arrogance, Ignorance, Inexperience, Immaturity....and just plain stupid at times :banghead:
Shoot well
:banghead: Shoot well
Jim Higginbotham
Member
One would be tempted to say that folks of this ilk have an inferiority complex. However, considering the lack of knowledge evident in the statement, they are probably just inferior
There are folks that *zero* their .45 autos at 75 yards you know (2.5" high at 25 yards, 3.5" high at 37 yards and 5" low at 100 - but who's counting).
Cheers,
Jim Higginbotham
chieftain
Member
Folks,
Please expain to me why, when I express my personal observations and known unreliability of the 1911 platform that you folks think I am attacking the 45acp.
Please, stick to the subject. I think the 45 is a fine round in a reliable platform.
It is either the 1911 giving the 45 a bad name, or folks trying to justify the 1911 giving it a bad name. These are two seperate and unrelated arguments. Please don't get confused.
Hell in Sykes and Fairbairns book they cleary recommended that the single action auto's of the day have their safety pinned, so that it could not be used.
Remember the most frequent FTF in a single action Auto is:
FAILURE TO RELEASE SAFETY!
By the way, they stated that they didn't see much difference in the stopping power of any of the calibers they used, they did prefer the Auto's higher capacity. And if I remember correctly felt it pointed more naturally.
Remember these folks were REAL GUNFIGHTING PEOPLE!
Any way, lets debate the 1911 on merits not the caliber for I see that as a non-debate.
You folks are right anyone who would get in front of any caliber at 30yards is nuts.
Good Luck
Fred
Please expain to me why, when I express my personal observations and known unreliability of the 1911 platform that you folks think I am attacking the 45acp.
Please, stick to the subject. I think the 45 is a fine round in a reliable platform.
It is either the 1911 giving the 45 a bad name, or folks trying to justify the 1911 giving it a bad name. These are two seperate and unrelated arguments. Please don't get confused.
Hell in Sykes and Fairbairns book they cleary recommended that the single action auto's of the day have their safety pinned, so that it could not be used.
Remember the most frequent FTF in a single action Auto is:
FAILURE TO RELEASE SAFETY!
By the way, they stated that they didn't see much difference in the stopping power of any of the calibers they used, they did prefer the Auto's higher capacity. And if I remember correctly felt it pointed more naturally.
Remember these folks were REAL GUNFIGHTING PEOPLE!
Any way, lets debate the 1911 on merits not the caliber for I see that as a non-debate.
You folks are right anyone who would get in front of any caliber at 30yards is nuts.
Good Luck
Fred
cardboardkiller
Member
I've seen as many Glocks try to puke their guts out at matches as I have 1911's. There are three things that these guns had in common, poor tuning, poor upkeep or poor ammo. A lot of 1911's need some work to get them 100%, a lot don't, outside of factory ammo, a lot of Glocks won't run reloads reliable, a lot will. There are several things that make a pistol unreliable, some factory induced, some human induced. Anyone ever figure out that you see a lot of 1911's go down because there are so many out there? How many 1911's do you see that run perfectly? My guess is because they do run perfectly you don't pay them any attention. I could make the statement that the Glock 40's are the most dangerous pistols out there to use when shooting reloads, but I don't know what reloading practices the individuals were using when they had a KB. I've shot or owned nearly every type of pistol manufactured and there are problems with all of them. I don't think it is any more fair to pick on one type of handgun anymore than another, I've seen revolvers take a dump, who'd a thought? Inherently some designs work better and the 1911 is one of them when properly executed, properly tuned and properly taken care of.
Just my 2 cents.
Just my 2 cents.
chieftain
Member
I agree with you Cardboardiller,
I don't carry Glocks either, for the same reason I don't carry 1911, lack of reliability.
They are better than 1911, but no they don't cut it either.
I look for a Semi approaching a revolvers level of reliablility.
AS to Glocks, I ask if it is an older Glock whether the Slam fire non-recall recall modifications have been made.
If it is an newer Glock I ask if the frame is in the group needing replacemnent during the present non recall recall.
Because of KB's, if it is a 40 or 45 I recommend replacing the barrel with an after market, I use Bar-Sto in my Glock 45's. By the way I have not heard of unusual number of KB's with the model 22. I don't know if the 357 SIG models will have this problem or not, so far it seems ok.
And subjectively I have a problem with the Glock triggers. I don't think there is a break! Just sponge!
Cardboardkiller, this isn't about being fair, this is about reliability, when machines are used to do the same thing, some will be more reliable than others. 'Just the facts mam'
In fact I believe I heard an unsubstantiated rumor that the LA SWAT has been having problems with their TRP's. I don't know whether that is true or not.
My first and most impressionistic observations of the 1911 was in combat, and I think way to many failed, and that's a fact!
If you think that is unfair, well.............
Good luck
Fred
I don't carry Glocks either, for the same reason I don't carry 1911, lack of reliability.
They are better than 1911, but no they don't cut it either.
I look for a Semi approaching a revolvers level of reliablility.
AS to Glocks, I ask if it is an older Glock whether the Slam fire non-recall recall modifications have been made.
If it is an newer Glock I ask if the frame is in the group needing replacemnent during the present non recall recall.
Because of KB's, if it is a 40 or 45 I recommend replacing the barrel with an after market, I use Bar-Sto in my Glock 45's. By the way I have not heard of unusual number of KB's with the model 22. I don't know if the 357 SIG models will have this problem or not, so far it seems ok.
And subjectively I have a problem with the Glock triggers. I don't think there is a break! Just sponge!
Cardboardkiller, this isn't about being fair, this is about reliability, when machines are used to do the same thing, some will be more reliable than others. 'Just the facts mam'
In fact I believe I heard an unsubstantiated rumor that the LA SWAT has been having problems with their TRP's. I don't know whether that is true or not.
My first and most impressionistic observations of the 1911 was in combat, and I think way to many failed, and that's a fact!
If you think that is unfair, well.............
Good luck
Fred
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