M2 Carbine
member
I've never got too hung up on a "proper" shooting stance.
Two handed, I use something like a Weaver.
Two handed, I use something like a Weaver.
Whats your shooting stance?
- Thread starter Wesker
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The Weaver is a great stance of peace officers, more like a street fighting stance.
However, as someone posted, the competition timers don't lie . . . and isosceles is the way to go . . . when one is not having to worry about operating a portable radio, manipulating a tactical flashlight or protect one's self against fists and less than lethal attacks.
When engaging multiple targets to the left, center and right, while moving and using cover. the isosceles stance becomes superior . . . at least for the majority of those who win matches with speed and accuracy.
AS SEVERAL HAVE POINTED OUT THOUGH . . . it is good to practice with a variety of stances . . . practice using either eye . . . practice one-handed, from both hands, etc.
If the SHTF though, you'll want to shoot as accurately as possible . . . in the FASTEST time possible. Folks, unless an attacker is in your face . . . this means Isosceles.
However, as someone posted, the competition timers don't lie . . . and isosceles is the way to go . . . when one is not having to worry about operating a portable radio, manipulating a tactical flashlight or protect one's self against fists and less than lethal attacks.
When engaging multiple targets to the left, center and right, while moving and using cover. the isosceles stance becomes superior . . . at least for the majority of those who win matches with speed and accuracy.
AS SEVERAL HAVE POINTED OUT THOUGH . . . it is good to practice with a variety of stances . . . practice using either eye . . . practice one-handed, from both hands, etc.
If the SHTF though, you'll want to shoot as accurately as possible . . . in the FASTEST time possible. Folks, unless an attacker is in your face . . . this means Isosceles.
Finch
Member
WWJBD? (What Would Jack Bauer Do)
Whats good for the Bauer is good for me.
This post is meant to be a joke, but Jack Bauer is not
Whats good for the Bauer is good for me.
This post is meant to be a joke, but Jack Bauer is not
If "fluid" or "situation dependent" was an option, I'd pick that. Mostly Iso with one foot slightly forward if I get to stand still. This is a good platform for H2H, CQB w/carbine & SMG and pistol shooting. Also puts the level IV plates square towards the ouch.
I'll also use one hand ala FAS point shooting (half hip, 3/4 hip & shoulder point) and Weaver seems to work best for me around barriers.
I'll also use one hand ala FAS point shooting (half hip, 3/4 hip & shoulder point) and Weaver seems to work best for me around barriers.
Jamie C.
Member
Whats your shooting stance?
I dunno... is there a formal name for "Shooting while running for cover"?
How 'bout "Trying to get as close to the ground as possible before the incoming fire starts"?
I've had occasion to use both of those...
While shooting at paper however, I tend toward "Weaverish" or "Duelist" I guess...
J.C.
I dunno... is there a formal name for "Shooting while running for cover"?
How 'bout "Trying to get as close to the ground as possible before the incoming fire starts"?
I've had occasion to use both of those...
While shooting at paper however, I tend toward "Weaverish" or "Duelist" I guess...
J.C.
MD_Willington
Member
I don't know.. stand and shoot, hit what I shoot at...
I'll just call it "The Willington wibbley wobbley"
I'll just call it "The Willington wibbley wobbley"
Isoceles here. I started with weaver but now that I know better I quit using it. Weaver is not the best for cops and isoceles is not just for competition. Some food for thought...
- Weaver opens the weaker part of your body armor to the threat, including the armhole. Isoceles presents the strongest part of your body armor.
- It has been documented (not by me) that under the stress of life and death type stuff, people will more often end up in an isoceles stance regardless of how they were trained. Why not train the way you will end up shooting when your life is on the line?
- Isoceles allows for more rapid recovery from each shot, allowing the shooter to bring the sights back onto the threat/target more quickly. The faster you can put rounds where it counts, the better.
- Isoceles works better for those of us who are cross-eye dominant since the weapon is out in front of your entire face. It is easier for the dominant eye to line up with the sights of a handgun held in the dominant hand.
- The FBI teaches isoceles -- what other reason do you need?
- Weaver opens the weaker part of your body armor to the threat, including the armhole. Isoceles presents the strongest part of your body armor.
- It has been documented (not by me) that under the stress of life and death type stuff, people will more often end up in an isoceles stance regardless of how they were trained. Why not train the way you will end up shooting when your life is on the line?
- Isoceles allows for more rapid recovery from each shot, allowing the shooter to bring the sights back onto the threat/target more quickly. The faster you can put rounds where it counts, the better.
- Isoceles works better for those of us who are cross-eye dominant since the weapon is out in front of your entire face. It is easier for the dominant eye to line up with the sights of a handgun held in the dominant hand.
- The FBI teaches isoceles -- what other reason do you need?
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Really wanted to get comfortable with the Weaver, but still find Isoscelese more natural, and I'm more accurate with it.
Spackler
Member
kikr
Member
Depends on if I'm in a static or dynamic position, I use the weaver posistion for static marksmanship and the Isosceles for movement. The weaver allows for better accuracy (IMHO) and the isosceles allows for easier transition between hands, grips etc.
tantrix
Member
1) Accuracy shooting - Isosceles hands down
2) Big bore revolvers with harsh recoil - Chapman (Modified Weaver)
As Inline_6 pointed out, Isosceles is the best stance for most applications for alot of reasons. The only time I use Modified Weaver is because the locked arm helps absorb recoil in big bore revolvers better than the other stances. Other than that, I always use Isosceles.
2) Big bore revolvers with harsh recoil - Chapman (Modified Weaver)
As Inline_6 pointed out, Isosceles is the best stance for most applications for alot of reasons. The only time I use Modified Weaver is because the locked arm helps absorb recoil in big bore revolvers better than the other stances. Other than that, I always use Isosceles.
lycanthrope
Member
Really I gotta say......Weaver felt perfect before I started to compete.
What was a 12 second "El Presidente" turned into a 5 second drill.
I really think Weaver is good for some people....but shoot enough and you turn into an Isos shooter. I'm no pro. I shoot "A" Class USPSA, but the timer never lies.
What was a 12 second "El Presidente" turned into a 5 second drill.
I really think Weaver is good for some people....but shoot enough and you turn into an Isos shooter. I'm no pro. I shoot "A" Class USPSA, but the timer never lies.
I use a modified iso, basically the stance that todd jarrett shows in his youtube video if you do the search for it. It's the same thing that Brian enos shows in his book as well as what matt burkett shows in his videos. It seems to be very much a combination of the standard chapman and iso's I was taught. Combining the best strengths of each.
It's the same stance (foot position) I used to compete with in Muay Thai and MMA competitions, and it's a lot better for recoil control for me. Even when I'm using my 44 magnum for hunting, I shoot better and can shoot much faster with the iso.
I see most law enforcement and military training going to the iso from the weaver. People forget that the weaver stance came out of competition, Jack Weaver was using it to win compeitions over the one handed shooters, Chapman used his modified Straight armed version to win competitions, today Leatham, Burkett, Enos, Jarrett and many others are using the modified iso to win competitions.
It's the same stance (foot position) I used to compete with in Muay Thai and MMA competitions, and it's a lot better for recoil control for me. Even when I'm using my 44 magnum for hunting, I shoot better and can shoot much faster with the iso.
I see most law enforcement and military training going to the iso from the weaver. People forget that the weaver stance came out of competition, Jack Weaver was using it to win compeitions over the one handed shooters, Chapman used his modified Straight armed version to win competitions, today Leatham, Burkett, Enos, Jarrett and many others are using the modified iso to win competitions.
usp_fan
Member
I had to pick the president's daughter. I'm not sure my stance, but I am working on leaning more forward and managing the recoil as opposed to fighting it.
--usp_fan
--usp_fan
Cosmoline
Member
I shoot a fair amount of old fashioned bullseye. Whatever happened to that? Or point shooting, for that matter. Not everyone uses one of the "dynamic tension" stances popularized by post war shooting competitions.
gwhall57
Member
Isosceles works for me. I also shoot strong hand only and weak hand only, 'cause ya' never know...
FJC
Member
Reformed Weaver shooter here - I'm now Iso all the way. Do what works best for you, but I'm convinced that Iso is best for most.
Don't lock the elbows!
Don't lock the elbows!
Hypnogator
Member
Isosceles -- Most natural position, and you can shoot from behind cover strong-handed from either side by leaning out.
Stevie-Ray
Member
Weaverishsoceles.
Smith357
Member
I use a modified Weaver for target work and an agressive combat posture in the real world.
Shawnee
member
Hi Wesker...
I've competed in many kinds of shoots and shooting and I guess I like to "mix it up" rather than stay with one thing. So I guess you have to put me down in the "swingin' from the chandelier" column most of the time, the "Bullseye" and "Isoceles" sometimes, and the "dodging behind the black Chevy" stance once in a while.
I've competed in many kinds of shoots and shooting and I guess I like to "mix it up" rather than stay with one thing. So I guess you have to put me down in the "swingin' from the chandelier" column most of the time, the "Bullseye" and "Isoceles" sometimes, and the "dodging behind the black Chevy" stance once in a while.
Deaf Smith
Member
I'm a grand master at the 'Hap Hazard' stance. I've been trained in the Weaver, Chapman (modified Weaver), Isocelies, and even a bit of 'Reverse Weaver'. Shot for many years in competition.
I can honestly say they all work. What is more, alot of time you won't have two hands to do any two handed shooting.
Since I've been in the martial arts for way past 20 years I can also say stances look good in kata, but in the ring most of that goes bye-bye.
Just follow the wisdom of Miyamoto Musashi. "Make your walking stance your fighting stance and your fighting stance your walking stance."
I can honestly say they all work. What is more, alot of time you won't have two hands to do any two handed shooting.
Since I've been in the martial arts for way past 20 years I can also say stances look good in kata, but in the ring most of that goes bye-bye.
Just follow the wisdom of Miyamoto Musashi. "Make your walking stance your fighting stance and your fighting stance your walking stance."
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