When is a rifle....
- Thread starter Mayo
- Start date
- Status
jpwilly
Member
Who is to say that they wouldn't?
I agree that a snipers choose tools to fit the role of the mission, same as sportsman, competitors, hunters, plinkers, collectors etc. Rifles are rifles. Hang them all on a wall they they are just things. Put a human behind the trigger these things are 100% dependend on the operator for application.
txhoghunter
Member
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2010
- Messages
- 663
You are asking would he choose a more powerful round, not rifle. Yes they would (duh), but on the battlefield, the rifle is just a small part of the sniper himself. The sniper must be able to deliver a devastatingly accurate round when it counts, but he must be capable of MUCH more than just that. IMO, a rifle is just a rifle until it is in the hands of one of these elite marksmen with training in much more than just accurate, long range engagements, THEN it is a sniper rifle.
pikid89
Member
There is no defining feature that makes a rifle a "sniper rifle" a sniper rifle is a rifle a sniper uses...that is all
FWIW...the IDF in Israel used integrally suppressed Ruger 10/22s for urban sniping applications
http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper
BrocLuno
Member
Sub-sonic .22's work fine for some close in applications. And the 223 is a 22 - just a faster heavier one.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Ehhh, don't forget modern marketing. It's "sniper" or "police" if it has a black stock and a heavy barrel.
In the military, SFAIK, a rifle intended for long range use is generally worked over to provide extreme accuracy at ranges out beyond those commonly encountered.
For instance, in WW II, a sniper Garand had match parts and a scope. Otherwise it was just a Garand.
Various civilian rifles were used in Korea and Vietnam, notable mostly for the sorts of scopes which were used.
Nowadays, depending on the type of mission, the main factor seems to be precision gunsmithing for maximum accuracy--with various platforms and cartridges.
Many folks here at THR "mess and tweak" with their own target and/or hunting rifles and achieve equal accuracy to anybody's "dedicated sniper rifle"--and no particular style of stock, scope, bipod, whatever is required.
In the military, SFAIK, a rifle intended for long range use is generally worked over to provide extreme accuracy at ranges out beyond those commonly encountered.
For instance, in WW II, a sniper Garand had match parts and a scope. Otherwise it was just a Garand.
Various civilian rifles were used in Korea and Vietnam, notable mostly for the sorts of scopes which were used.
Nowadays, depending on the type of mission, the main factor seems to be precision gunsmithing for maximum accuracy--with various platforms and cartridges.
Many folks here at THR "mess and tweak" with their own target and/or hunting rifles and achieve equal accuracy to anybody's "dedicated sniper rifle"--and no particular style of stock, scope, bipod, whatever is required.
Found some interesting things when researching:
Sniper rifles:
http://www.snipercentral.com/rifles.htm
The other breaks down what is considered a sniper rifle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper_rifle
Sniper rifles:
http://www.snipercentral.com/rifles.htm
The other breaks down what is considered a sniper rifle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper_rifle
Last edited:
Smith357
Member
In a word, yes.
Though I may be a good enough shooter I do not have the cover and concealment skill needed to be a sniper. Nor do I have the patience to take 7 hours to crawl 200 feet through the mud. Hypothetically if I had the skills, the number one thing I would want is a good spotter.
I would want a ghillie rifle wrap or good camo job that matches the terrain I am in, a fixed 10-12x scope with anti-reflection device and target turrets, the rifle would be chambered in a common military supplied cartridge with 800+ meter capabilities, a heavy barrel and a light weight plastic stock, a bi-pod up front and a mono pod in the butt.
Snowy Rivers
Member
Any rifle that a stupid politician happens to remember the name and model of can become a sniper rifle.
Example, I kid hding in a tree house with a Henry 22 LR lever action and shooting at cars will make the eavening news as "Jouvenile with a sniper Rifle shoots at cars on the roadway"
A sniper is a military person who is highly skilled at shooting great distances with accuracy. He usually uses guns like a 308 or for reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealy long stuff he would use a Barrett 50 caliber.
Its all in who is writing the story as to whats a sniper rifle.
Are AR-15's Assault rifles, NO the M16 and the M4 are assault rifles. The true assault weapon is a select fire weapon capable of either full auto or 3 round burst.
An axe with a double bladed head is an assault weapon if you want to consider an AR -15 as such. so is a BB gun if its used to Assault someone.
Its all about spin, a play on words and it takes very little to impress folks that know nothing about the real world of guns.
Anything can become anything in the world of SPIN. It is magic dont ya know.
An M80 firecracker can become a Huge bomb capable of blowing down tall buildings with a single POP.
"The Massive 9mm handgun was used to shoot the man and he flew over tables and chairs after being shot"
Seems to me that I remember basic high school physics 101.
For every action there is an equal and oposite reaction . Hmmmmmmm a 9mm blowing a man over the tops of tables and chairs.
Sniper riflle is whatever you want it to be.
Off soap box
Truthfully
A heavy barreled Model 700 Remington in 308 with a very good scope and a bipod could be used as a sniper rifle.
Deer and elk hunters are nothing more than Snipers, hiding in a tree stand and shooting 300 yards at Bamby.
Same same.
Oh did I mention that if its BLACK, its an Assault weapon or a sniper rifle. ???????????
Just depends on the particular joker thats talking about it.
If I sound a bit tart, well I am tired of the nonsense Rhetoric that flows from the Political pundits.
Snowy
Example, I kid hding in a tree house with a Henry 22 LR lever action and shooting at cars will make the eavening news as "Jouvenile with a sniper Rifle shoots at cars on the roadway"
A sniper is a military person who is highly skilled at shooting great distances with accuracy. He usually uses guns like a 308 or for reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealy long stuff he would use a Barrett 50 caliber.
Its all in who is writing the story as to whats a sniper rifle.
Are AR-15's Assault rifles, NO the M16 and the M4 are assault rifles. The true assault weapon is a select fire weapon capable of either full auto or 3 round burst.
An axe with a double bladed head is an assault weapon if you want to consider an AR -15 as such. so is a BB gun if its used to Assault someone.
Its all about spin, a play on words and it takes very little to impress folks that know nothing about the real world of guns.
Anything can become anything in the world of SPIN. It is magic dont ya know.
An M80 firecracker can become a Huge bomb capable of blowing down tall buildings with a single POP.
"The Massive 9mm handgun was used to shoot the man and he flew over tables and chairs after being shot"
Seems to me that I remember basic high school physics 101.
For every action there is an equal and oposite reaction . Hmmmmmmm a 9mm blowing a man over the tops of tables and chairs.
Sniper riflle is whatever you want it to be.
Off soap box
Truthfully
A heavy barreled Model 700 Remington in 308 with a very good scope and a bipod could be used as a sniper rifle.
Deer and elk hunters are nothing more than Snipers, hiding in a tree stand and shooting 300 yards at Bamby.
Same same.
Oh did I mention that if its BLACK, its an Assault weapon or a sniper rifle. ???????????
Just depends on the particular joker thats talking about it.
If I sound a bit tart, well I am tired of the nonsense Rhetoric that flows from the Political pundits.
Snowy
A long range precision rifle is a sniper rifle when in the hands of a trained sniper.
A sporter rifle is a hunting rifle in the hands of a hunter.
A match grade rifle is a competition rifle in the hands of a competitive shooter.
Just my opinion, yours may vary.
A sporter rifle is a hunting rifle in the hands of a hunter.
A match grade rifle is a competition rifle in the hands of a competitive shooter.
Just my opinion, yours may vary.
It's not about the hardware. The question has a point: most people look to what hardware they can buy and think they somehow acquire the ability of a sniper by possessing the tool.
Well, if you can't hammer, you can't hammer. A fancy one doesn't make you skilled.
A sniper can use ANY weapon, caliber chosen for the job necessary. Police Marksman use 5.56 from 16" carbines, but they know the ballistics under 400m and can place a shot in a very reliable way in a small target. Snipers know and practice things like calculating cross winds over multiple street intersections in urban areas, the deflection angle of glass, understanding holdover from static objects at close range, and what scope helps them control bullet drop measured literally in yards at long range.
The sniper makes the rifle, not the other way around, but today's credit card toting Mallchild has no clue about it. They think a swipe of the card makes them one. Well, no, not even after a week shooting in 40* temps recording wet weather bullet drop makes you a sniper. You earn it when it's been proven you can do it.
Well, if you can't hammer, you can't hammer. A fancy one doesn't make you skilled.
A sniper can use ANY weapon, caliber chosen for the job necessary. Police Marksman use 5.56 from 16" carbines, but they know the ballistics under 400m and can place a shot in a very reliable way in a small target. Snipers know and practice things like calculating cross winds over multiple street intersections in urban areas, the deflection angle of glass, understanding holdover from static objects at close range, and what scope helps them control bullet drop measured literally in yards at long range.
The sniper makes the rifle, not the other way around, but today's credit card toting Mallchild has no clue about it. They think a swipe of the card makes them one. Well, no, not even after a week shooting in 40* temps recording wet weather bullet drop makes you a sniper. You earn it when it's been proven you can do it.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Mayo, odds are that a practical answer would be "enhanced precision". Hunters rarely need to shoot beyond 300 yards and most combat shooting is just hunting a critter that shoots back. Since the modern concept of sniping extends beyond 800 and 1,000 yards, more precision is what makes the difference...
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Check out the THR Rifle Forum Reading Library _ Useful Links stickied at the top of the Rifle Country forum.
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/
Carl N. Brown
Member
A sniper rifle is a rifle used for sniping.
My father served in New Guinea and the Phillipines in WWII and described sniping with standard issue M1 Garand and BAR, as well as the 'scope sighted purpose built M1 Garand sniper rifle.
The Japanese snipers used standard issue bolt action rifles for sniping. When a long barrel 6.5 Arisaka was used with the 6.5 ammo loaded lightly for use in the Hotchkiss-style Japanese machine guns, the muzzle blast was lower, but that appears to be a field expedient improv.
Any definition of purpose built "sniper rifle" is hard to distinguish from a definition of a "varmint rifle" or a "benchrest rifle". In fact, a Savage 110 Tactical makes a good benchrest gun as well as a sniper rifle.
But quite frankly, sniper rifle describes a use, not necessarily a firearm.
Accuracy; reliability; shot from a cold barrel close to second, third shot zero; criteria for a good sniper rifle start to sound like criteria for a good rifle period.
My father served in New Guinea and the Phillipines in WWII and described sniping with standard issue M1 Garand and BAR, as well as the 'scope sighted purpose built M1 Garand sniper rifle.
The Japanese snipers used standard issue bolt action rifles for sniping. When a long barrel 6.5 Arisaka was used with the 6.5 ammo loaded lightly for use in the Hotchkiss-style Japanese machine guns, the muzzle blast was lower, but that appears to be a field expedient improv.
Any definition of purpose built "sniper rifle" is hard to distinguish from a definition of a "varmint rifle" or a "benchrest rifle". In fact, a Savage 110 Tactical makes a good benchrest gun as well as a sniper rifle.
But quite frankly, sniper rifle describes a use, not necessarily a firearm.
Accuracy; reliability; shot from a cold barrel close to second, third shot zero; criteria for a good sniper rifle start to sound like criteria for a good rifle period.
Snowy Rivers
Member
IMHO
A rifle of sustantial caliber (30 or above) that can in the hands of a skilled shooter attain very good groups at 1000 yards or ?? thats equipped with supreme optics be called a sniper rifle.
Had an uncle that shot 30-06 caliber in his Enfields at Camp Perry and he was just a nice old man that was a good shot.
Snowy
A rifle of sustantial caliber (30 or above) that can in the hands of a skilled shooter attain very good groups at 1000 yards or ?? thats equipped with supreme optics be called a sniper rifle.
Had an uncle that shot 30-06 caliber in his Enfields at Camp Perry and he was just a nice old man that was a good shot.
Snowy
During WWII, the OSS used modified Winchester .22 rifles with a scope and silencer for use by snipers eliminating sentrys and guard dogs. The British Commandos modified the Enfield No. 1 Mark III for the same purpose, converting it to .45 ACP to use a standard Colt Model 1911 magazine, and adding a short barrel with integral silencer and modified luminous iron sights.
Don357
Member
A "sniper" rifle has been anything from a .68 cal Enfield Rifled Musket to a .31 cal Kentucky rifle to a .50 Barret or a .50 cal M-2 Machine gun or a .177 air rifle, etc...
It depends on the user and the use!
It depends on the user and the use!
Skylerbone
Member
So are there sniper pistols or are pistols reserved for assassins? Is that due to proximity to the target if one shoots from concealment?
I still say sniper's rifle makes it a sniper rifle. Just as James Bond's "gun" was a PPK but not every Walther was James Bond's "gun".
Sniper rifle is the term wrongly used to associate specific model rifles commonly fielded for the purpose of sniping. It has grown to encompass various features from blackout scheme to camo, heavy barrel to large scope.
Just as many say gun for rifle/pistol or clip for magazine or grips for stocks yet we have an estimation of what is meant in most circumstances.
I still say sniper's rifle makes it a sniper rifle. Just as James Bond's "gun" was a PPK but not every Walther was James Bond's "gun".
Sniper rifle is the term wrongly used to associate specific model rifles commonly fielded for the purpose of sniping. It has grown to encompass various features from blackout scheme to camo, heavy barrel to large scope.
Just as many say gun for rifle/pistol or clip for magazine or grips for stocks yet we have an estimation of what is meant in most circumstances.
cthulhufan
Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2009
- Messages
- 88
Yep.NWCP said:
The rifle is secondary. If it is in the capable hands of a sniper, it is a sniper's rifle.
- Status
