Sniper, rifle, what do I need...

[anymanusa]

Between my dad, my brother and myself, we have the assault rifles, the hunting rifles, the pistols, the shotguns all covered.

We went shooting the other day, and I realized, that none of us have a bonafide 'sniper' rifle. I ordered a FAR 50, but it hasn't come in yet. Does this suffice? Or should I buy another 'tack' driver to qualify as my 'sniper' rifle?

Just interested in opinions. I wouldn't mind owning a saiga semi-auto shotgun, but other than that, I think we have the bases covered.

Right at this minute, I think the closest thing that 'we' have to a 'sniper' rifle is my DPMS 308, that shoots 1" groups with wolf ammo at 100yds. It has a nice bipod, palm swell grip, and 9x scope on it.

Thanks.

 

[Picard]

Any rifle used by a sniper is, by definition, a "sniper" rifle. Don't get caught up in the scary lingo, because that's exactly what the anti's want you to do. You also don't own any "assault rifles" unless your rifles are fully automatic. What you do own are semi-auto, military style rifles.

I'd say that they 308 is plenty accurate. If it can get 1" groups with crappy ammo, I bet it can do way better with quality stuff.

 

[anymanusa]

hey, sorry for using the 'assault' rifle lingo. I know It's not the best descriptor. I was just wondering if it would be in my best interest to build a savage 308 'sniper' type rifle. I'm starting to 'want' one now that I have the 'bases' covered.

 

[Claude Clay]

try a box of federal gold match--its considered a benchmark for accuracy from the factory. test shoot from a solid support. if you see an improvement id group size than perhaps get some better glass. burris is good value for money. float the barrel. refine the trigger. to get the cost down--hand load. it is not hard to match the federal accuracy for about 45 cents a round. good luck

 

[dscottw88]

You need a Barrett M107/82 SASR with some armor peircing incendiary rounds. Careful though, intercontinental shots aren't recommended.

 

[xx7grant7x]

federal 168 gr BTHP is a standard round for long range law enforcement/ military bolt action rifle shooters... give her a whirl

 

[Snipe315]

Here is the easiest way to get a Sniper's Rifle:

Option 1: Join the U.S. military (USMC or ARMY preferably) and get a primary MOS as a Military Sniper.

Option 2: Become a member of a Law Enforcement organization and get slotted as a Sniper / Counter Sniper / Precision Marksman.

:banghead:

Thanks for stopping by.

 

[mljdeckard]

What is it you want this rifle to do that your DPMS won't do? Can YOU already outshoot the accuracy of that rifle? (Most people can't.)

 

[takhtakaal]

You want a "sniper" rifle?

As was said, "sniper" is a very loosely defined word these days. I wouldn't use it, either.

First, ask yourself what you want to spend. Most people's concept of a precision (nicer term, less inflammatory) rifle could be well served enough by some .30 caliber flavor with a bipod and a telescopic sight. Precision shooting is a deep, deep money pit if you go for the best gear on a consistent basis and accept nothing less.

So, if you want to keep it relatively simple, I would recommend a 700 action in .308 or .30-06, with a heavy barrel, a bipod, and some good but not great glass. If you were to go with a ready-made solution, instead of piecing one together, you could get by for less than $1.8K with something like a Remington XCR, with room for a not-top end Leupold scope, flip caps, rings, ammunition, a good sling, and a bipod: http://www.impactguns.com/store/rem_700_xcr.html

What you spend, up or down, depends upon how much accuracy you want to try to squeeze out of your rig, dependent upon your own abilities. Better glass costs, and it goes up quickly with stuff like lit reticles and first-plane focusing, where your mildots measure out to the same no matter what the power setting on a variable scope. Frankly, it makes no sense to put brilliant glass on lousy rings, or on a so-so rifle, so think out the total investment based upon equipment that matches. Wanna talk $1,000 tacticool precision rifle stocks?

Some guys make do with what are really jumped-up deer rifles, and think them tactical. Others blow money on rifle systems that they'll never be able to shoot as well as a skilled person might, and it gets to be an ego game. Plan it out, do some reading, ask questions, and don't let your eyes get bigger than your stomach when it comes to greed for gear.

 

[ugaarguy]

Right at this minute, I think the closest thing that 'we' have to a 'sniper' rifle is my DPMS 308, that shoots 1" groups with wolf ammo at 100yds. It has a nice bipod, palm swell grip, and 9x scope on it.

We have a member here who carried an SR-25 in Iraq as a Squad DMR. From his reports he liked that the big gun looked the other guys M16s unless you were right on top of them because it didn't draw extra attention to him as the squad level marksman / sniper. He shoots a .308 DPMS as one of his personal rifles.

If your personal DPMS .308 AR is shooting Wolf that well I agree with the previous recommendations to try a box of Federal Gold Match. After that try Hornady Match or Black Hills Match ammo and see how it does with those. It should like at least one of them. After you find a factory load that it really likes use that bullet weight & velocity as a basis for its general sweet spot area. Then invest in a good single stage press to roll your own and tune the load. Last, but far from least important, spend money on a scope upgrade for the DPMS rather than buying another rifle.

I think you're already pretty well set.

 

[cliffy]

Political Correctness in Lingo Please

Since either of my rifles can remove a tick from a coyote's butt, merely means they are reasonably accurate. Accuracy at long-range is adequate. Just because a rifle is black, does not mean it's suitable for ASSAULT useage. We, sportsmen, must mind our tongues. I don't personally have any illegal firearms, such as full-auto. In fact, I have s-l-o-w bolt-action fare ONLY. "One shot: One kill" also rides low regarding political correctness. If given ten shots, I have been known to hit the broad-side-of-a-Barn. The distance remains irrelevant. I would assault no one, unless he or she assaulted me first. I'm a pacifist with a loaded pacifier. I mean no evil to anyone, who doesn't deserve it. I'm also not a judge, so who deserves it, is out-of-my hands. However, attack my country, and terrorists may as well attack me. I find attacking personal. cliffy

 

[pgeleven]

Option 1: Join the U.S. military (USMC or ARMY preferably) and get a primary MOS as a Military Sniper

there is no primary MOS as a sniper. its a ASI/SQI, side billet, or 'assignment'. join any branch and tell your drill instructor that your MOS is going to be a sniper because your recruiter told you so, expect laughter in return. if everyone who joined the military who wanted to be a sniper or special forces got their wish, there would be a hella shortage in the mechanic and quartermaster fields.

 

[sacp81170a]

Precision shooting is a deep, deep money pit if you go for the best gear on a consistent basis and accept nothing less.

And the sad part is that you can spend a ton of money on gear and still not be a good marksman. In my not-so-humble opinion, truly skilled precision shooters are skilled because of their meticulous nature and dedication to practice. What do I mean by that? That they are unwilling to accept levels of accuracy that 99% of us would think of as "plenty good enough".

Lots of us can shoot well. Few of us have the mind set and willingness to practice to become a precision shooter. Ever heard of a "cold shot" log? Letting your barrel cool completely between shots means means that you're probably going to wait around 30 minutes between shots, give or take depending on environmental conditions. That means that getting a five shot group will cost you about 3 hours of range time, just to get set up, shoot and wait for the barrel to cool. I personally know exactly 4 people who've done that, and I'm one of them. Now do the same thing at 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 225, 250, 275 and 300 yards for your scope, ammo and rifle combo. Record your come ups for future reference. Try it in varying cross wind conditions. Now you're beginning to get an idea of how a precision shooter in the LEO world practices.

If you and your rifle can put 5 shots in a 1" circle at 100 yards, every shot from a cold bore, you're in the ball park. If you can do it with 100% certainty every time in all weather conditions, you're there. Contrary to popular belief, this does not require thousands of dollars' worth of gear to accomplish. It does require constant practice and attention to detail.

 

[Rifleman 173]

When people talk about owning a sniper rifle, they generally mean that they own a precise shooting rifle. They are NOT talking about being an assassin or trained marksman. They are not talking about being unconscionable killers like the Beltway Killers. Note: I did NOT refer to those two losers as snipers because they're not snipers. A true sniper is a government agent or military person trained to perform precision and/or long range precision shooting. Right now the leading or most accurate rifles out there seem to be the .308 Winchester rifles, the 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mausers, the 6.5 Grendels and then there is the 7.62 NATO National Match rifles which come out of the military systems. Right now the up and coming military sniper rifle is the SASS or Semi-Automatic Sniper System. SASS is a highly refined AR-10 rifle redesigned for special military needs. What helps make some rifles very accurate are the scopes used on the rifle. To actually have a super accurate rifle and scope combination the intended shooter really needs to develop some experience with or get some specialized training in using rifle scopes. That means going to shooting schools that specifically train people in long distance or precision shooting. If you are going to be doing precision shooting, precise shots delivered on a target at under 400 meters for example, you need to look for classes in urban shooting situations. If you're looking for long distance shooting capabilities you need classes for long distance hunting or long distance shooting our beyond 400 meters. Such schools exist but finding them may be hard in some geographic areas so you may have to travel out of state to like Gunsite Firearms Training in Arizona or some other place. Good luck in your endeavors. It won't be an easy thing to accomplish.

 

[sacp81170a]

To actually have a super accurate rifle and scope combination the intended shooter really needs to develop some experience with or get some specialized training in using rifle scopes.

Amen, amen, amen. 75% of the folks I know who use a scope don't have the foggiest clue what the different styles of reticle are for, much less how to use them. They zero at a set distance and then never touch the windage and elevation. That said, the deer you just shot at 150-200 yards isn't going to get back up and complain about your group.

That means going to shooting schools that specifically train people in long distance or precision shooting. If you are going to be doing precision shooting, precise shots delivered on a target at under 400 meters for example, you need to look for classes in urban shooting situations. If you're looking for long distance shooting capabilities you need classes for long distance hunting or long distance shooting our beyond 400 meters. Such schools exist but finding them may be hard in some geographic areas so you may have to travel out of state to like Gunsite Firearms Training in Arizona or some other place. Good luck in your endeavors. It won't be an easy thing to accomplish.

400 meters seems to be where the "men are separated from the boys." At that distance, the wind really begins to have a significant effect, and learning to dope it is the hardest thing I've tried to learn about shooting. I'm confident of my "precision" out to 300-350. Much farther than that, it gets iffy, which means a no-go. That's primarily because I don't have a place to practice that's more than 400 meters. Shooting at reduced targets to simulate longer ranges doesn't get you any experience doping the wind, so it's not as good a substitute as it might seem.

Back to the OP: You've got a DPMS .308 lower, so why not pick up another upper for it? You can save some money, and best of all you can get a "tack driver" class weapon without even having to fill out another 4473. The lower receiver is the part that the ATF considers to be the firearm and it's where the serial # is located. Another upper is, well, just another upper and can be purchased mail order with no FFL transfer. Even better, you've already got magazines and other accessories for it. Put a Magpul PRS stock and maybe a Magpul MIAD grip, a decent scope(Millett makes a nice one for ~$300-$350) and you have very close to the current SR-25. You could get into this for < $1500, and have a very fine rifle indeed. Use the money you save for classes and ammo for practice.

 

[ziggy222]

most varmint type rifles with handloaded ammo is close enough to sniper without spending thousands

 

[anymanusa]

thanks for all the excellent suggestions. I think what I need to do to satisfy my urge is to purchase a long-bull barreled upper for my existing DPMS, and a much better trigger, and put a better bipod on it, as well as a better stock and scope.

All that stuff will cost more than I was expecting to spend on a bolt action savage with a nice super sniper scope, but I think that will make me happy.

I'll also try some fed gold match ammo.

After reading all the responses, I began to realize that not only can I use a longer barrel/upper for my DPMS (which already has a floated barrel/handguard), but my cheapo wal-mart bipod leaves a LOT to be desired in terms of stability.

Add all that to the fact the the trigger put feels a mile long, crusty and gritty, and I think I can get a good deal more accuracy from it- although I'm not trying to pretend that I have explored the limits of the guns accuracy yet.

thanks

p.s. anyone have any links to a good trigger group that would work nicely for it? AR15 stuff won't fit/work will it?

 

[AmishFury]

When people talk about owning a sniper rifle, they generally mean that they own a precise shooting rifle.

unless they are a milsurp collector... my sniper rifle is the result of someone in russia hand picking a rifle from normal infantry rifle production, accurizing it, and mounting a scope on it back in the 40s so it could be issued to a sniper

 

[guntotinguy]

most varmint type rifles with handloaded ammo is close enough to sniper without spending thousands

+ 1 and a good varmint rifle...Rem 700 or as suggested above,upgrade the DPMS

 

[Zedo]

I had one -- Rem. 700 PSS, 223 Ackley set up with a Springfield Rangfinder 4 - 14x 40mm (rangefinder reticle, bubble level). 80mm lens hood, Harris bipod. Timmeny two stage set trigger about 4 oz.

Set up by the State Police, and then they decided to go with 308 Win.

0.22 MOA w/ match ammo handloads.

I sold it because loading for it and shooting it was a hassle. I could hit a hen's egg off the bench at 300 yds, but it depended on ambient temp, humidity -- and running a patch down the bore every five rounds, then letting it "sit" while the barrel cooled.

 

[sarduy]

Sniper, rifle, what do I need...

1. Join the US Army (and qualify as an expert marksman)
2. Join a 5 week course at Fort Benning Sniper's school.
3. Pass the 5 week course while the 75% of the students fail.
4. get any rifle you like to use as a Sniper rifle ONLY then you can say you own a Sniper rifle.


if you dont complete those steps all you have is a (Presicion rifle, very accurate rifle or a Varmint rifle)

ETA: if you want a (Presicion rifle, very accurate rifle or a Varmint rifle) take a look at one of the followings:

Remington 700P
Remington SPS Tactical
Remington SPS Varmint
PSL (romanian version)
AR-10
SR-25
Mosin-Nagant with PU scope

 

[cliffy]

A HOT barrelled .243 Winchester

Cold barrelled shots are nearly always 10x hits, but during the fury of a firefight, a barrel gets HOT. Often I cannot wait till my barrel cools for the next flight of fury. Should I stand under a waterfall for my next shot? I find little difference in accuracy regarding barrel temperature. If 100 yard accuracy regards a cooling period, I've never found that extreme accuracy of cooling increase needed. My incredible scope seems to automatically compensate for barrel-warming, somehow . . . cliffy, the still alive and vibrant.

 

[fletchbutt152]

Many rifles will do it.

There is a new Savage out a year ago. Model 12 F/TR. Heavy thing, but will shoot quite well from the articles I've read. 5 shot group at .88" at 500yrds.

Personally, I've just discovered I owned a POS 7.7 Jap Arisaka that has been tapped off centerline (expletive). Shoots 1" group at 200yrds with an old Weaver 7 power scope my Dad gave me. Maybe one day I'll find the range and glass to take her our for a longer run.

 

[scrat]

Yep like the others have said need to be carefull. Same time what are you aiming at. If you looking to shoot long distance. Then thats another thing to say. There are so many guns capable of shooting long distance. Just depends on what you want. Did you want the big rifle with the big scope that can shoot 700 yards. or did you want to shoot iron sights. Id love to be able to shoot iron sights. Only really gun i know that would be able to do that iron sights. Well there are a lot of guns. but the one i would love to have to shoot distance. is the Sharps 45-110. Its a 1000 yard rifle iron sights. Did you know that it has been around for over a hundred years too.

 

[anymanusa]

1. Join the US Army (and qualify as an expert marksman)
2. Join a 5 week course at Fort Benning Sniper's school.
3. Pass the 5 week course while the 75% of the students fail.
4. get any rifle you like to use as a Sniper rifle ONLY then you can say you own a Sniper rifle.

Thanks for introducing this rediculous nonsense into my thread. Let me just for one moment entertain your rediculous absolute ideas of what you think 'sniper' means.

Suppose I practise for weeks on end, sight accurately, and then 'assassinate' a target with extreme precision, am I not a 'sniper' then?

Get off your high horse. I'm looking for what is commonly known as a 'sniper' rifle. There is no 'establishment' that owns the title or word 'sniper'.

Thanks for playing though.