When to bite one's tongue in a Gun Shop?

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MatthewVanitas

MatthewVanitas

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A bit of an ethics and etiquette question for the gallery:

When should one speak up, or remain silent, when overhearing incorrect or absent information in a gunshop?

I dropped into the local gunshop (Lock Stock, Yucca Valley CA) to check some pieces I had on consignment. Had this issue come up several times in the fifteen minutes I was there.

1) Very peppy young guy comes in, apparently he comes in every month and buys whatever's cheap. They were trying to sell him an RG revolver to complement last month's Bryco purchase. He was interested in a .223 rifle, so they showed him a pretty nice H&R .223 single-shot with a Simmons scope for $200, which seemed a pretty good buy.

Buyer: "Can I get one of those 40-round bananna clips for this?"
Dealer: "No" and no further info...
Me: "It's not a semiauto, it's a single shot, so it doesn't need magazines"

So the buyer and I talk about the advantages of single shots for a few minutes, and he ends up buying the rifle. I also reccommended our local shooting club, and he picked up a signup form for that.

Dealer: "Yeah, this is a great buy. These are expensive rifles, and that Simmons is a pretty pricey scope"

I end up writing "www.thehighroad.org" on the back on a card and giving it to the young guy.

2) Two young Marines come it, Dealer proceeds to show them the cream of the crop: pistol-gripped Maverick shotgun, Lorcins, etc.

Dealer: "Yeah, these Hi-Point .380s are amazing. Fill 'em with sand and shoot 'em, shoot 'em underwater, they're great! All the military guys are buying these 9-mils left and right!"

I pass them a card with www.thehighroad.org written on it and mention that they can look up opinions on almost any firearm in the shop.

3) Guy comes in looking for a magazine for an Argentine 1895 (not 1909) rifle. Not detachable, but someone removed the fixed mag from his rifle to turn it into a single-shot. Dealer says, "nope, good luck". So I pass him a card with this website, as above.

Bear in mind, all this happened in about 15 minutes. This is the same shop that was snotty to me for saying (to the owner, not a customer) that maybe telling customers to fire .380 ACP in a Destroyer carbine wasn't safe, due to headspace concerns.

Was it rude of me to direct customers to this site? At what point is it permissible to correct an out-and-out falsehood being told to a customer? If the dealer is unable or unwilling to answer a question, is it rude of me to comment? I don't want to be the younger and slimmer version of the cliched "gunshop loudmouth", but nor do I want to keep mum when I really feel I could provide helpful info to a prospective shooter.

This seems to happen continually when I'm at that shop. I wish I could afford to take my pistols off consignment and move them elsewhere, but the re-background-checking would be cost-prohibitive. Just had to vent...
 
I don't think you were out of line.

I wish I could afford to take my pistols off consignment and move them elsewhere, but the re-background-checking would be cost-prohibitive.
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:barf: I'm so glad i don't live in CA.
 
Was it rude of me to direct customers to this site? At what point is it permissible to correct an out-and-out falsehood being told to a customer? If the dealer is unable or unwilling to answer a question, is it rude of me to comment? I don't want to be the younger and slimmer version of the cliched "gunshop loudmouth", but nor do I want to keep mum when I really feel I could provide helpful info to a prospective shooter.
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An honest mistake is something a reputable dealer would not mind being corrected on. If he gets mad about it, he's lying and he's upset that you caught him in the lie.


If the owner kicks you out, it's no great loss anyway at that point because I certainly wouldn't want to do any business with a liar who endangers his customer's safety and/or firearm (.380 ACP in place of 9mm Largo :rolleyes: ) in order to sell ammo.
 
Funny thing, but around here the gunshop guys (the older ones) really know their stuff. It seems that the ones my age generally don't know their @$$ from a hole in the ground.

However they're salesmen and are gonna talk it up, even if it's a Hi-Point.

I balked at a couple Hi-Points last time I was at my second fav gunshop and he was like "they have really excellent warranties". He's right about that.
 
At what point is it permissible to correct an out-and-out falsehood being told to a customer?
Click to expand...



At what point is it permissible to let someone get ripped off in your presence? I seem to remember hearing something about evil triumphing and good men doing nothing...



If the dealer is unable or unwilling to answer a question, is it rude of me to comment?
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Hmmm. Probably depends on HOW you do it. I'd rather try and get rebuffed than let bad information go uncorrected.
 
I've done pretty much exactly the same thing you've done...I don't have a problem stepping up and offering information to illuminate and illustrate when the 'person responsible for knowing' falters.

I do not block anyone from making a sale just from common courtesy, but if I see something blatantly wrong, I just gotta put my nickel's worth in. Yep, I've gotten dirty looks from the guy behind the counter sometimes, but sometimes they don't belong on that side of the counter if they don't know chicken poop from chicken salad.

Regards,
Rabbit.
 
Somehow, I usually wind up in a conversation. I couldnt tell you if I stick my nose into it more often than I'm invited, seems to be 70/30 between being invited/rude. AFAIK I havent ticked anyone off, well, except one woman's husband (she was shopping, just finished BLET). I dont think he was pissed off, but he was definately uneasy... Ironicly, he was the one that asked my opinion.
 
Giving them a source of information isn't rude. It's not like you telling them that they can buy the same firearm down the street for less. The salesman hasn't lost a sale unless the potential buyer finds out he's full of it. Then he blew the sale himself and shouldn't really blame anyone else. There should be a certain amount of ethics in there somewhere.
 
If a shop kept passing out bad info, I wouldn't go there anymore. It's hopeless to try to educate ignoramuses in their own store.

Passing out the tip to come to THR, on the other hand, that's perfect. Low key, non threatening, and the real fountain of straight scoop on any guns!

Good move.
 
Lock, Stock & B.S.

I live near Palm Springs and went to this gunshop ONCE....that should tell you something!

Last Summer I decided to check this place out...my first impression was that the lady and two men who run this place are VERY opinionated, pushy and probably sold cars/RV's at one point(Don't flame...I sold RV's for a while). I was in the market for an SKS and figured to spend about $150.00: another local gunshop has them for about this price in good-very good condition. ME: "What do you get for SKS rifles?" ONE OWNER: "Oh,
they go for about $400.00" ME "That seems a little high; Condor Guns sells them for $150." ANOTHER OWNER: "B*llsh*t. That's less than we pay for them." Realizing the basic nature of this hellhole, I just told them they lost a customer for life.:neener:
 
Bear in mind, that although I know absolutely nothing about cosmetics, if I had the money and inclination to buy and open a cosmetics store, I could legally do it!

Ditto for people that know zilch about guns who own/manage gun or sporting goods stores.

I would think that an owner/manager would welcome input from pholks more knowledgeable than himself. On the other hand, perhaps not.

As was said earlier in this thread, I would not do business with a store that sold Jennings/Bryco/Raven etc. products.

I, too, have corrected glaring errors. I was once in a very large chain sporting goods store when I watched a clerk trying mightily to sell a customer a .222 Remington for deer hunting. When I suggested that a .30-06 might be more appropriate, the clerk said that the customer wanted a deer rifle, not an "elephant rifle." I then asked the clerk if he planned to inform the customer that it was illegal in that state to hunt deer with any .22 caliber weapon.

The angry clerk asked me to leave the store. I asked to speak with the general manager. The clerk lost his job, when I threatened to write corporate HQ.

This was not a case of ignorance. The clerk was "pushing" a batch of Remington 700s in .222 that weren't selling. But even if it had been ignorance, trying to sell a customer a weapon that would have caused him to be in violation of the law is inexcusable.

Tell the truth! And if that offends the dealer, don't trade at that store again. Just MHO!
 
I agree the Lock Stock is sketchy in many aspects.

Their main saving grace is that there are some good deals mixed in. They seem to dominate the local estate sale scene. (Now I'm getting vivid mental pictures of what lines they feed to the bereaved). So some really interesting pieces filter into the shop at surprisingly reasonable prices.

My biggest personal beef with them: I gave them two Mausers to sell on consignment for $99 each. They asked my rock-bottom haggle price just in case, so I told them. An hour later they called me and said both had sold, at my rock bottom price! I asked how in the heck they got haggled down so far on the first day, and they replied that the store had bought them for itself.

So, now I'm seeing red, because it's obvious that they bought them to resell at a higher price, which seems a ludicrous conflict of interests. So I demanded they put them back on the shelf under my name, at the original price, which they did. Now my rifles are on the back side of a rack full of milsurps: I have trouble finding them even when I'm looking for them.

That's not the worst: the had the gall to try and charge me 15% comission for selling to themselves!

So, I'm rather wishing that I had put the guns on consignment at Yellow Mart (formerly Jernigans sporting goods chain), which is right across the street. I found it amazing that, after being assured by Lock Stock that they were the only gunshop in the region and "there's only two gunshops left in L.A. because the laws are so bad", I find a large gun section in the store _literally_ across the street.

I'm giving myself an ulcer...
 
Mathew .... condolences and commiserations!! I think you acted just fine and certainly .. a pointer to here will never go amiss ... the more people can ask questions and be educated the better.

I am lucky with my local gun shop ... they sure as heck do not know everything but .... are honest enough to admit same. I have been in there when brought into a customer conversation ...... to be asked ''what do you think Chris'' ... if i know I say what I think ... if not I admit as much.

The honestly factor matters a lot ..... high-powered selling will always turn me off ..... quick!!

It is sometimes hard to not seem a smart a** when butting in to correct wrong or inadequate info but at same time .. I feel it necessary to make sure that some of the unitiated at least get the right info and so be less likely to err ... or waste their money.

I am well aware that the guys in my store do at times have absolute cretins come in wanting to buy ... knowing nothing .... and they get real frustrated too with some of them. But courtesy and civility cos naught .... and some of these other store owners should remember that.
 
I always try to correct anything I know to be false. As politely as I can if the speaker was just ignorant, and as rudely as possible if the speaker was lying. Even (especially) if its a salesperson to a customer. Sales people have a moral responsibility to tell the truth, but no financial (and little legal) incentive to do so. Unless they have to worry about having others out them.

Stick with what feels right, your gut is your best friend.

Directing customers to another store is probably dubious, and sure to earn you some ill will, but if a store has a problem with customers who want to be informed, then you need to do more than just hand out cards to people.
 
Kestryll: Turkish Mausers, 1935 or so. I'd assume C&R status, though I believe CA is weird about the C&R issue.

Makes me nostalgic for WA, where a man can sell out of his trunk with a smile and a handshake. Bugs the heck out of me that I can't sell cash and carry to my coworkers, despite the fact that they spend most of their time carrying select-fire rifles around. But I suppose keeping the dreaded "8-mils" off the streets of LA is worth it.
 
As a very new guy to guns I hope that if I'm getting a line of BS from a salesman there is someone in the store who knows better and is willing to speak up. I've been doing some knife collecting over the past couple years and have seen it happen quite often that someone with a real interest in the hobby is chased away from it by being snookered by a rip-off dealer.

I understand the necessity of research but sometimes the only source at hand is the person I am dealing with face to face. That's why I'm over here reading a lot and posting not at all, so far I haven't had anything of value to say.

Thanks for the free education, I'll keep hanging around.

DaveJ
 
The issue has complicated itself: said gunshop has a .38 Special Colt Detective Special, with 3" barrel. "A rare model" according to the owner. I'm a bit confused, as I've never heard of a non-snub DS (though my experience in this area is limited). Looks almost new, slight muzzle wear and a couple scratches. Great bluing. Didn't yet run the standard op-check for revos. They want $375, which doesn't seem too terribly bad for CA.

I'm highly tempted to buy it for myself, but I don't need a fixed-sight .38 D-frame. It just complicates the issue when a crummy shop has a neat piece. A buddy's wife has been hunting for a .38 Spl Colt, so I mentioned this to her husband. Again, mixed feelings reccommending a sleazy shop with an interesting product... -MV
 
Colt has made limited numbers of DS with 3" barrels. I had one, but lost it when I sold it to a so call friend who needed a compact revolver. I gave him a special friendly price with the first choice in buying it back if he chose to sell it. Well he found out what it was worth and sold it out from under me for a healthy gain on his part. Sometimes we learn things the hard way.
 
I was a gun show few days ago and a guy selling Hi-point pistols told a customer they are basically same gun as Glock just cheaper. :barf:
 
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