Where to conceal carry.

[Jerkstore]

I did not suggest that it has "no value". We wouldn't be having this conversation if I thought that. My point was that real life training and experience allow you to give the value, as you put it, "the weight it deserves". Too many people come to forums like this and assume that what they read is accurate/correct. Without some sort of authoritative basis, folks have no way of knowing whether what they read on a forum is excellent advice/information or unmitigated nonsense.

People on this forum are probably just like other people you might meet at a gun show or something similar. They wouldn't be on this forum if they knew nothing about guns. They are informed to varying degrees, and it's informative to hear what they have to say.

 

[citizenconn]

Get the training first, then come back. While there are many of us here who train new firearm users, picking our brains isn't going to help you much until you get at least the most basic training in gun handling and the legal ramifications of using them for self defense.

Bless your heart.

 

[entropy]

Hey, coming from a Texas guy, that's not very nice! I lived down there long enough to know what you really are saying....

 

[drobs]

The OP is in Maryland, where the laws are significantly more complicated than that.

I noted the OP kept mentioning "my state" but nowhere did I see he wrote what state he was in.
Googling: "Do no gun signs in Maryland carry weight of the law in reference to ccw licenses?"

1st couple of links say no they don't without being trespassed. I don't live there and doubt I will ever visit there. The OP needs to do his own research and talk to other locals on that issue.


Back on topic, I carry everywhere that doesn't have metal detectors. Very few places have metal detectors in Missouri. Silver Dollar City is a big amusement park in Branson has metal detectors and active security looking for armed citizens. I will not visit their park or give them my $.

 

[Jerkstore]

In Maryland, no gun signs currently have no weight of law, but starting October 1, 2023, the default will be that no guns are permitted by law unless the owner places notice stating that guns are allowed. New governor, new law.

 

[Pistolay]

In my state, "No guns allowed" signs do not have the force of law, although if you're made, they can tell you to leave. That being said, I carry everywhere as long as it isn't actually illegal (like the Post Office), and if I'm asked to leave, I will do so. I stay away from places where they search you or make you go through metal detectors.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Back to the original posting...

Reading though subsequent postings in the thread, it's more evident that this is a "new carrier" question. As such, it's a very good question, if only because it shows forethought.

There are a world of things to consider when carrying beyond the obvious (such as what to carry and how to carry it). Even such matters as "what do I do when I have to use a public restroom and drop my pants?"

(A simple answer to that, by the way, is to pull the waist band of your underwear over the grip of your holstered pistol, which both keeps the holstered pistol upright/next to your leg and out of view of anybody in an adjacent stall.)


Anyway, back to your question:

"...how careful are most carriers with a permit to avoid such places"?

What this primarily requires in the first place is cognizance of the places one visits and any restrictions they may have. This, of course, requires you to know and understand what the jurisdictional laws have to say on the matter.

If a place is off limits to carry, then you have to make some (legal) choices in the matter. Is it important enough to go there? Can you go somewhere else less restrictive? Can you have someone else go inside? Do you disarm yourself? Are there other temporary means of arming yourself outside of a firearm which would be acceptable? How do you safely and temporarily disarm in a secure fashion?

I'm sure there are numerous other questions germane to this issue.

I am careful because being careful is inherent with carrying in the first place.

I'm careful where I go, when I go, and with whom I go.

I'm careful about situational awareness. I'm careful about how I comport myself. I'm careful about what I say. I'm careful about how I dress.

I am careful about carrying within the limits allowed by law as well as NOT carrying where the laws prohibit it.

I'm careful about any number of things related to the fact that I have chosen to carry a weapon to protect myself and my loved ones. It's a serious responsibility.

 

[drobs]

In Maryland, no gun signs currently have no weight of law, but starting October 1, 2023, the default will be that no guns are permitted by law unless the owner places notice stating that guns are allowed. New governor, new law.

The question is does a "No Guns Allowed" sign carry the weight of the law? Or will you have to be trespassed by the property owner in order for that sign to mean anything?

You need to ask yourself, does a No Guns Allowed sign supersede your unalienable rights to Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness? Do you value your life more than the feelings of a Shopping Mall owner's insurance company?

 

[drobs]

Another place local to me that has "No guns allowed" signs and actively enforces it, is the James River Pentecostal Church. A good friend of mine is on the armed security team and actively enforces their rules. He recently told me he spotted a husband and wife carrying a Molle Backpack as a diaper bag and guessed they had a gun in the bag. He stopped the couple and asked them if they had a firearm in the bag.

The husband got defensive and started arguing with him. Yes they did have a pistol in the bag. Normally my friend would escort them to their vehicle where they can lock the gun up. In this case they were asked to leave the premises.

I value my friend but I wont attend his church.

 

[bearcreek]

Another place local to me that has "No guns allowed" signs and actively enforces it, is the James River Pentecostal Church. A good friend of mine is on the armed security team and actively enforces their rules. He recently told me he spotted a husband and wife carrying a Molle Backpack as a diaper bag and guessed they had a gun in the bag. He stopped the couple and asked them if they had a firearm in the bag.

The husband got defensive and started arguing with him. Yes they did have a pistol in the bag. Normally my friend would escort them to their vehicle where they can lock the gun up. In this case they were asked to leave the premises.

I value my friend but I wont attend his church.

In MO, you have to have permission from the minister or representative of the church in order to legally carry there. That rule remains the same regardless of signage.

 

[.308 Norma]

I value my friend but I wont attend his church.

It would be a bit of a drive for you, but you'd be welcome at our church (Victory Baptist in Malad, Idaho) whether you were carrying a gun or not. I know for sure that at least 25% of the congregation in our church is wearing guns every Sunday morning. Of course, that's not saying much seeing as how there's only about 12 of us in the congregation on a good Sunday.

 

[WisBorn]

It would be a bit of a drive for you, but you'd be welcome at our church (Victory Baptist in Malad, Idaho) whether you were carrying a gun or not. I know for sure that at least 25% of the congregation in our church is wearing guns every Sunday morning. Of course, that's not saying much seeing as how there's only about 12 of us in the congregation on a good Sunday.

Twelve good folks

 

[drobs]

In MO, you have to have permission from the minister or representative of the church in order to legally carry there. That rule remains the same regardless of signage.

You are correct. However, "the penalty" still falls under the Missouri state law I posted on page 2.

 

[FL-NC]

I don't patronize businesses that don't support 2A. Government buildings usually have metal detectors.

 

[Stefan A]

I just wondered what other people who carry with a permit do when faced with laws that turn our permits into swiss cheese. I live in a state in which it will soon become illegal (when the new law goes into effect) to carry on any private property without the express consent of the owner. So I guess I'll be calling my grocery store and other places and asking if I can carry there. What a pain.

This sounds a lot like MD. I am in Pa right near the MD border and I obtained my MD permit last summer. I have also thought about what to do starting in October if these laws go into effect. I guess asking is the thing to do. I wish it could have been signs prohibiting, rather than signs permitting. I am betting a lot of businesses won't even know about it. When they hear about it, I bet the knee-jerk reaction will be to say no.

Anyway, I will have no choice but to go along with the law - because that's what good people do. I was just in Tennessee and had to stay out of places my family wanted to go to because their signs are lawful. I might print up those cards that you can find on handgunlaw.us to give to businesses that don't allow it.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Signs permitting probably won't pass muster if it ever gets challenged properly in court.

This is me speaking as someone who is NOT an attorney, mind you.

The RKBA is a RIGHT and has been recognized as such. You cannot abrogate a right by saying it ONLY applies when it's in writing ALLOWING it to apply.

REGARDLESS: Unless one wishes to be the sacrificial test case to push this through the entire court system, follow the laws as such. Let (and support) those who are working to abolish this stuff without having to potentially sacrifice someone's liberty and financial well being to the battle.

 

[JR24]

I typically follow the signs eventhough in my state the penalty isn’t very severe if I’m both noticed and refuse to leave (federal buildings and schools and whatnot excepted).

I use a single clip holster IWB that holds very secure but is also easy to get on and off, so it’s not a huge issue to unclip and leave it in the car when necessary.

Am I the only one that thinks that if you cannot confidently draw your gun without discharging it you shouldn’t be carrying in the first place?

It would be the reholstering step that’s the question, I’d say.

But, of course, this also should apply to all the various discussions about safety’s and DA vs strikers for carry and whatnot.

For all of those things, as noted, it’s just risk mitigation vs convenance. I prefer to keep the gun in the holster as much as possible as a matter of habit, works for me. YMMV

 

[WisBorn]

I was reviewing this thread and scratching my head.
I had a busy day yesterday, running errands.
1- ran into the post office (no weapons)
2- stopped at the library (no weapons)
3- went to the bank (no weapons)
4-went to the hardware store (weapons allowed)
5- helped my mother in law and took her to a doctor appointment (no weapons)
6- stopped at the grocery store (weapons allowed)
7- went to the gas station (weapons allowed)
8- checked into a resort for a couple of nights (check in no weapons)

If you are avoiding places that you can't carry you must not have much of a life?
I lock my carry in the vehicle when I can't carry. I like pocket carry and take the gun and holster out of my pocket. When carrying OWB/IWB I remove the gun from the holster and leave it in the vehicle. If you can't safely remove your handgun from your holster and return it. Maybe you should reconsider carrying and the responsibility that comes with it!

THINKING OUT LOUD!!!

 

[JR24]

Not your average day though, I’d think. On my average day I don’t go anywhere I can’t carry, unless I’m picking up my kids from school.

If I didn’t do that I’d almost never go anywhere I couldn’t carry other than the yearly Dr Appt

If you can't safely remove your handgun from your holster and return it. Maybe you should reconsider carrying and the responsibility that comes with it

Interesting, does this apply to your other situations in life where you should be able to do something but take extra steps because it’s smart to mitigate potential catastrophic error? Like seatbelts in cars, or helmets on bikes?

 

[WisBorn]

Not your average day though, I’d think. On my average day I don’t go anywhere I can’t carry, unless I’m picking up my kids from school.

If I didn’t do that I’d almost never go anywhere I couldn’t carry other than the yearly Dr Appt




Interesting, does this apply to your other situations in life where you should be able to do something but take extra steps because it’s smart to mitigate potential catastrophic error? Like seatbelts in cars, or helmets on bikes?

If I need to make a stop someplace that has restrictions for carry. I don't avoid it, I secure my firearm. As far as using PPE I go further than most.

 

[JR24]

If I need to make a stop someplace that has restrictions for carry. I don't avoid it, I secure my firearm. As far as using PPE I go further than most.

Me too.

 

[GEM]

Be aware that new laws in some states include parking lots in business bans, so you can't secure your gun legally. Also, be aware that the vaunted Supreme Court is unable to act in real time to declare such bans unconstitutional for a set of basically BS legal dominance games or not really wanting support the RKBA fully (by several so-called gun friendly justices).

Some states have explicitly forbidden employers from banning parking lots. Good job there. Location bans should be unconstitutional except for technical and proven security reasons such as the MRI room, prisons and planes. However, getting Scotus to move on this - well, I've complained enough about their lack of urgency and attention to practical detail.

 

[JR24]

Be aware that new laws in some states include parking lots in business bans, so you can't secure your gun legally. Also, be aware that the vaunted Supreme Court is unable to act in real time to declare such bans unconstitutional for a set of basically BS legal dominance games or not really wanting support the RKBA fully (by several so-called gun friendly justices).

Some states have explicitly forbidden employers from banning parking lots. Good job there. Location bans should be unconstitutional except for technical and proven security reasons such as the MRI room, prisons and planes. However, getting Scotus to move on this - well, I've complained enough about their lack of urgency and attention to practical detail.

Unless things have changed and I missed it I believe that applies to federal buildings as well, like post offices.

On the rare occasion I need one, I park across the street just to be safe.

 

[AlexanderA]

At some point, the checkerboard of restrictions becomes so burdensome that you question whether it's worthwhile to carry at all.

This is the intention: making the "right to carry" moot.

 

[trackskippy]

At some point, the checkerboard of restrictions becomes so burdensome that you question whether it's worthwhile to carry at all.

This is the intention: making the "right to carry" moot.

I think you nailed it here.

I also think people dont really have a clue as to what the laws/rules are. Most all of the rules Ive read that say you cant, all have the "any other lawful purpose" cite/clause in them, and usually at the very bottom or last subsection. If you have a lawful purpose for carrying the gun, how can you be in violation of the rule?

The Post Office is a perfect example of that, or at least up until recently was. Ive just noticed recently that they have changed the cites on the posters in the lobby.

I have two friends who are retired Postmasters, and at the time they were working, the posters had two cites on them, and both told me that the one cite applied to the lobby and public areas, and the other applied to the areas not open to the public and applied to those working there. That cite for the lobby, also had the "any other lawful purpose" section in it. The other did not.

Read the school zone rules too, all Ive read, also had that clause in them.

Personally, I carry everywhere, regardless of signs. The only places I dont, are places where you have to go through a metal detector or get patted down.