Wherefore you test SD ammo if you lack private land?

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

gfanikf

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
866
Location
PA
Problem with defensive ammo is unless you have access to private land you're dependent on others to do testing for you or nothing at all.

While I mean no disrespect to those who take the time and money to do these tests (say like Tennessee Gun Owner on youtube). I'd like to see first hand the results as shot by me if I'm trusting my life and my families to an ammo.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
If you have a safe place indoors to shoot, into thick layers of wood, or some other way to stop the projectile, you can most likely do it yourself. I would make sure that discharging a firearm inside any building (say, in the basement), is OK to do and make darn sure you are going to catch the bullet. You DO NOT want the bullet going places you did not intend (like through a sheetrock wall into another part of a building.

I know someone who owns a store and, after hours, when no one was in the store except us two, we would shoot into maple logs (very hard wood). After a while, we actually set up a regular range with 45 degree steel 1/2" thick with a sand trap. The wall behind this backstop was a solid concrete wall, any misses and the bullet would take a small chip out of the concrete. We wore long sleeve shirts and a jacket and eye and hearing protection.
 
I'd like to see first hand the results as shot by me if I'm trusting my life and my families to an ammo.
Click to expand...
And how ya gonna do that unless you find some volunteers willing to get shot, at varying angles and through different layers?

While some of the tests are interesting, there are just too many variables for most of the home testing to mean much (unless you plan on getting attacked by water jugs or wet phone books). Heck, I don't know how much more faith you can put in manufacturers' testing, but at least they do have more resources / feedback to work with.
Despite some folks' insistence otherwise, it's still a very imperfect science.

I don't sweat it too much - I usually stick with what's cheapest / on sale from the major players, as long as it functions well in my gun.
 
Last edited:
basicblur said:
And how ya gonna do that unless you find some volunteers willing to get shot, at varying angles and through different layers?

While some of the tests are interesting, there are just too many variables for most of the home testing to mean much (unless you plan on getting attacked by water jugs or wet phone books). Heck, I don't know how much more faith you can put in manufacturers testing, but at least they do have more resources / feedback to work with.
Despite some folks' insistence otherwise, it's still a very imperfect science.

I don't sweat it too much - I usually stick with what's cheapest / on sale from the major players, as long as it functions well in my gun.
Click to expand...

Well its more wanting to see the expansion on the higher priced ammo I bought to an extent lol. I agree its varies greatly, but at least its something. Plus its hard finding a lot of good manufacturers data on 9x18mm Makarov.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
Now there's some sound advice
Click to expand...

It's not terrible advice given the rest of his sentence. You chose to highlight the portion that would make it seem like unsound advice.

"Major players" = reputable manufacturers.
"functions well" = no malfunctions in MY gun.
 
gfanikf said:
I'd like to see first hand the results as shot by me if I'm trusting my life and my families to an ammo.
Click to expand...

Actually, in an open world of YouTube and gun testing forums, the facts come out far more efficiently than even personal testing will avail. Large numbers of testers publicly showing their results end up filtering out poorly designed or business-biased testing. People commenting on the factual nature of written results will improve the value and accuracy of such tests far better than any single individual can create.
It's why open source software is generally excellent, low on bugs, high on security. The term, 'sunlight makes the best disinfectant' is true for all things.
No issue with wanting to perform the tests yourself. It's interesting stuff, and maybe you'll discover something others have not. It's all to improve the data.
B
 
Virtually all of the.so called "tests" you see people do.only prove a bullet's performance in water jugs, wet sand, phone books or whatever the tester has on hand. This is fine if you are being attacked by water jugs. Ballistic gel, while not perfect, is the industry test standard. Regular people really don't use their money to buy enough ballistics gel and the equipment needed to maintain test temperature to make even private tests using the standard medium valid.

There are other factors to consider in a SD round in addition to expansion and penetration you don't need expensive test equipment for and can test at any range. First is functioning the most important factor. If FMJ is all that feeds reliably that's what you need to use. Next, in my book, is accuracy. I find 147 gr 9mm the most accurate in my S&W, Beretta, and Taurus handguns, WW Silvertip gives off the least muzzle flash which is a consideration in low light shooting. Based on these and expansion and penetration figures from manufacturers or other controlled tests is how to pick your ammo.

I really don't think there is that much difference in performance of quality ammo. I do think if you feel the need for +P or +P+ you really need to consider more gun. My idea of a +P+ 9mm is called 357 SIG.
 
I'll add my .02, just because I can!

Nobody can accurately predict how a bullet will expand on any given self defense shot. As has been said over and over, there are far too many "stable" variables even before we consider the "unstable" variables, the ones that vary by condition and by time.

Choose ammo that has been shown to consistently expand in laboratory tests, that cycles reliably in your gun, that shoots to POA, whose recoil you can control for follow-up shots, and with which you can afford to practice.
 
Rampant_Colt said:
Now there's some sound advice :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I actually agree with his statement when you read the whole post, not just the quoted part. I reload my own SD ammo, but I would feel comfortable with store bought on sale ammo. I feel that other variables (caliber, shot placement, followup shots) play a bigger role (IMHO).
 
The big name ammo makers go to great lengths to test their products to make sure that they meet the now standardized FBI criteria. The only real testing you need to do is at the range to make sure that they feed 100% reliably in YOUR gun.
 
any descent hollow point at velocity standards for that caliber (not reduced or watered down stuff nor need for +p either) gun in service caliber will do the job just fine.
 
I read a lot. If 90 out of 100 say these 3 are the best. I buy all 3 and then it's a matter of seeing which one I shoot best and which operates in my gun best. I recentlly bought the 4 highet rated 40 caliber hollow points and tried all of them out. Ended up with the Hornaday, red tip HD round in 165 grain.
Also keep a mag of fmj and one or low recoil winchester rounds in the mag holder. I always keep a second or third mag filled with FMJ's in case of a barrier.I want my bullet to wind up in the bad guy not stuck in his door or materess, if he's shooting at me from cover.
Also have an ammo wallett in the car with 25 -30 rounds of whatever I am carrying that day.
Learned from my "almost brother in law". He was a border patrol agent in the 70's when you could get pinned down for 24 hours before anyone showed up to help you.
Not likelly now, but it might take long enough to run out of ammo, if you were pinned down behind a car someware in the sticks, like where I live. Ten or fifteen minutes can be a lifetime.
 
gfanikf said:
Problem with defensive ammo is unless you have access to private land you're dependent on others to do testing for you or nothing at all.

While I mean no disrespect to those who take the time and money to do these tests (say like Tennessee Gun Owner on youtube). I'd like to see first hand the results as shot by me if I'm trusting my life and my families to an ammo.
Click to expand...

After getting my CC license last year, I had the same feeling you did. I wanted to see for myself how my ammo did when it was fired from my pistol. My CC instructor put me in touch with a forensics guy (a friend of his who does these tests as a side-line) and I had him test my SD ammo (.45ACP 230 gr. Gold Dot) against a heavy clothing barrier and calibrated gel using my Glock 21. It was an interesting test and the ammo did just what it was supposed to do. At 868 fps, it expanded nicely to 0.705”, penetrated to 12.25” and kept all of its weight. Not too shabby.

The problem with this is that the test was pretty expensive and I doubt that I can afford to have it done everytime I decide to change what I carry in my gun.

After a lot of research, I came across this-

www.quantitativeammunitionselection.com

and read it cover-to-cover twice. But what really blew me away was that it contains a model that allows you to do tests using water instead of gelatin. Just for giggles, I put it up against the test results that I paid (a lot) for and was surprised by the result. Using the info from my test, the model gave me a penetration depth of 12.33”! :evil:

I’ve just started testing ammo in water (I am a member of a private range and they are pretty cool about it so long as I pick up after I am done) using this model and cannot believe how well it works. If you can find a place to test, this might be what you are looking for.
 
Personal testing is fun, but not necessary. The companies that make these bullets spend a LOT of time and money testing them, me wrapping old blue jeans around blocks of ballistic gel isn't going to teach me anything new. Pick one that your gun cycles and use it.
 
Step 1, Ask a farmer or use govt. land.
Step 2, Shoot hogs.
Repeat as needed...

It may not be scientific or even relevant, but it's a lot more fun than shooting jugs of water or wet phone books!
 
Go to east Kansas City MO late at night.
Or any big city

Seems to be a lot of ammo testing going on there every night by folks who don't own land.

rc
 
Wherefore you test SD ammo if you lack private land?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Problem with defensive ammo is unless you have access to private land you're dependent on others to do testing for you or nothing at all.

While I mean no disrespect to those who take the time and money to do these tests (say like Tennessee Gun Owner on youtube). I'd like to see first hand the results as shot by me if I'm trusting my life and my families to an ammo.
Click to expand...

Exactly what type of ammo testing are you wishing to do? A lot of ranges will allow some types of testing and you can do your own testing on federal lands where shooting is legal.

So since you haven't seen first hand results of ammo testing shot by you what ammo are you carrying?

Now there's some sound advice. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It wasn't advice.
 
i have several thousand acres of USFS land within 3 miles of our home that i shoot in. 2 spots that i favor. i have used everything from old magazines, to water jugs to test with. when the heat wave is over, i am going to try jello next. the key is to bring back what you take in. i take everything that is possible. including as many bullets as i can find. leaving garbage out there is what gets places closed. the problem i have, is with other people, rather PIGS. that leave any and everything laying out there right whre they drop it. i would really like to see the forest service put up some trail cameras, and start issuing tickets of up to $500.00 to the PIGS that leave their garbage there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

K
  • Locked
What SD ammo do you carry
2
Replies
39
Views
1K
FMF Doc
F
twofewscrews
  • Locked
<joke> To Hell With Your Science/Pertinent Information to My Query /s
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
LiveLife
LiveLife
C
  • Locked
My own desert o' truth. 9mm ammo test.
2 3
Replies
50
Views
3K
papajohn
P
J
  • Locked
Cool new ammo tested in Iraq
Replies
4
Views
605
Correia
C
S
  • Locked
Test SD bullets with reloads?
Replies
3
Views
319
dakotasin
D
Back
Top