Where's the Correct Balance?
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YammyMonkey
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When? Always.
Why? Because I never know when something is going to happen. I also have a very well stocked med kit in both vehicles, make sure my cell phone is charged, have extra food around the house, etc. I don’t think something is going to happen every time I leave the house, but I accept the fact that it could & prepare accordingly.
You cannot predict if/when you need to carry & the problem with constantly evaluating your situation as you envision it is that things can go sideways very rapidly. You could be driving grandma to bingo & end up the unsuspecting victim of a carjacking, road rage, whatever. Just because you’re minding your own business doesn’t mean that somebody else isn’t minding it as well.
If you were a criminal & lived in a poor neighborhood would you want to rob your neighbor who has seen you around, knows where you live & probably has nothing better than you do or would you rather drive 15 minutes to some place where nobody knows you & they have nicer things that pawn faster?
Criminals are not as dumb & lazy as we would all like to think they are.
“Within reason” for me would be at least one gun, one reload, one knife, one flashlight, one cell phone. That’s the bare minimum even if I’m just going out for a run or bike ride.
If it hurts you’re doing it wrong. Work with your setup to make it more comfortable. Did you start with a quality gun belt? If not, get one.
Why? Because I never know when something is going to happen. I also have a very well stocked med kit in both vehicles, make sure my cell phone is charged, have extra food around the house, etc. I don’t think something is going to happen every time I leave the house, but I accept the fact that it could & prepare accordingly.
You cannot predict if/when you need to carry & the problem with constantly evaluating your situation as you envision it is that things can go sideways very rapidly. You could be driving grandma to bingo & end up the unsuspecting victim of a carjacking, road rage, whatever. Just because you’re minding your own business doesn’t mean that somebody else isn’t minding it as well.
If you were a criminal & lived in a poor neighborhood would you want to rob your neighbor who has seen you around, knows where you live & probably has nothing better than you do or would you rather drive 15 minutes to some place where nobody knows you & they have nicer things that pawn faster?
Criminals are not as dumb & lazy as we would all like to think they are.
“Within reason” for me would be at least one gun, one reload, one knife, one flashlight, one cell phone. That’s the bare minimum even if I’m just going out for a run or bike ride.
If it hurts you’re doing it wrong. Work with your setup to make it more comfortable. Did you start with a quality gun belt? If not, get one.
1911 guy
Member
It's a sliding scale, in my opinion. Going about my normal daily life, I'm very unlikely to encounter any type of violence. I do carry a handgun due to my desire to protect my family and the slim possibility of getting targeted by a random crackhead looking for a fix (I work a late shift in a major city in N.E. Ohio).
The threat level goes up and so does my "spider sense" when the weather warms up and the natives get restless. Unusual activity on my street makes me double check the alarm and locks. People hanging out near the parking lot at work make me pay more attention.
In short, observe and make your plans and condition of readiness based on your surroundings. Living in Mayberry might warrant dropping a J-frame into your pocket in case you run into Ernest T Bass while he's on a drinking binge. Living in Watts may warrant a large caliber automatic, several reloads, a few knives and an impact weapon or two stashed on and about your person. I pack a little heavier when I'm with my family because the option of bravely running away is no longer available.
Remember, it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.
The threat level goes up and so does my "spider sense" when the weather warms up and the natives get restless. Unusual activity on my street makes me double check the alarm and locks. People hanging out near the parking lot at work make me pay more attention.
In short, observe and make your plans and condition of readiness based on your surroundings. Living in Mayberry might warrant dropping a J-frame into your pocket in case you run into Ernest T Bass while he's on a drinking binge. Living in Watts may warrant a large caliber automatic, several reloads, a few knives and an impact weapon or two stashed on and about your person. I pack a little heavier when I'm with my family because the option of bravely running away is no longer available.
Remember, it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.
MisterMike
Member
YammyMonkey said:
I didn't intend for this to be the focus of reasons why I mght not always carry. In a nutshell, the answer is that I've got pretty good gear--depending on the what, when and where, I use a Milt Sparks VersaMax, a Comp-Tac MTAC (both in conjunction with an honest-to-goodness reinforced gun belt), or a SmartCarry. So, I'm pretty well equipped with comfy gear. Nonetheless, there's always at least a bit of a compromise in comfort, though I consider this a very minor factor. The "hassle" factor does include other considerations, like farting around with loading and holstering up, trying to be careful about not going into areas armed where I shouldn't be, and doing my best to achieve full concealment 100% of the time. Sometimes one or a combination of these factors cause me to not carry.
I'll shut up after this, but I want to make it clear that I'm not challenging anyone's decision to carry 100% of the time. As others have noted, we each have to assess our personal situation and reach a decision within our comfort zone. My interest was in learning how each of you reach that decision.
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mercop
Member.
I carry my tools to support my mindset and training. IMHO the most important thing is to evaluate the threats you are most likely to encounter from people and things and train for them.- George
I think 1911 guy makes some excellent points. I also think its a sliding scale - but for the circumstances in which I live, I have not yet felt the need to carry on a day to day basis.
Can I foresee circumstances where I may change my mind? Yes I can, but they would be specific situations or a general escalation of crime, for instance.
The 'Always prepared' folks make some good points, but I personally will stick to my sliding scale and be at peace with that decision.
Can I foresee circumstances where I may change my mind? Yes I can, but they would be specific situations or a general escalation of crime, for instance.
The 'Always prepared' folks make some good points, but I personally will stick to my sliding scale and be at peace with that decision.
mercop
Member.
So far in my life I have been unable to foresee the events I have been involved in, events from a shooting to a flat tire. Experience tells me to be armed and carry a spare as much as possible.- George
Th3_M4d_1r1shm4n
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As an Eagle Scout alum, I have had "Be Prepared" hammered into my brain so far it's embedded in my nerve stem.
What's the old fortune cookie joke, Fail to Plan is a Plan to Fail? I carry because we exist in a state of change and chaos, and that crowd of guys you walked by last night on the way home may not feel so benevolent tonight. Your neighbor's loco dog might decide today is the day he *really* wants to come over the fence. Yesterday was peachy, but today could be the day where it all goes out the window. To me, one of the worst mindsets in the world is the "it can't happen to me" frame: "Well, I won't get mugged tonight, so I don't have to carry..." Uh-huh. You clear that notion with the criminal element? I doubt it. It is impossible to eliminate personal threat in your every-day life...but it's possible to lessen it. So I carry, with 2 extra mags. I also carry a small first-aid kit with me, and if I had to choose which I would rather use, the med kit wins every time.
As much as I want to avoid conflict, I am fully aware that some day, someone out there may not let me. Someday, I might face a direct threat to my life or (more importantly, to me), a direct threat to the life of someone I love. And if that happens, I will not be standing there wishing I had my sidearm. I have buried enough people that I cared about, seen enough of what happens when evil and tyranny is permitted to exist. So I carry every day, praying I never have to draw down, but fully prepared to do so if the situation requires it.
"Thou shalt not be a victim. Thou shalt not be a perpetrator. Above all, thou shalt not be a bystander."
Go well.
What's the old fortune cookie joke, Fail to Plan is a Plan to Fail? I carry because we exist in a state of change and chaos, and that crowd of guys you walked by last night on the way home may not feel so benevolent tonight. Your neighbor's loco dog might decide today is the day he *really* wants to come over the fence. Yesterday was peachy, but today could be the day where it all goes out the window. To me, one of the worst mindsets in the world is the "it can't happen to me" frame: "Well, I won't get mugged tonight, so I don't have to carry..." Uh-huh. You clear that notion with the criminal element? I doubt it. It is impossible to eliminate personal threat in your every-day life...but it's possible to lessen it. So I carry, with 2 extra mags. I also carry a small first-aid kit with me, and if I had to choose which I would rather use, the med kit wins every time.
As much as I want to avoid conflict, I am fully aware that some day, someone out there may not let me. Someday, I might face a direct threat to my life or (more importantly, to me), a direct threat to the life of someone I love. And if that happens, I will not be standing there wishing I had my sidearm. I have buried enough people that I cared about, seen enough of what happens when evil and tyranny is permitted to exist. So I carry every day, praying I never have to draw down, but fully prepared to do so if the situation requires it.
"Thou shalt not be a victim. Thou shalt not be a perpetrator. Above all, thou shalt not be a bystander."
Go well.
1911 guy
Member
Quote:
one of the worst mindsets in the world is the "it can't happen to me"
Agreed. Bad Things always happen to the other guy. To someone else, YOU are "the other guy".
Nobody can maintain constant vigilance, those who try wind up either failing on some level or making themselves crazy in a very real way. It's better to maintain a constant level of watchfullness and let your surroundings determine whether you ramp it up or not. That said, it a very good idea to have the basic tools with you rather than encountering a situation and being unprepared. For me, that means carrying a handgun and paying attention. There have been the very few occasions when that's been elevated to include a long arm and a bit of ammo and some additions to the basic first aid kit in the car. Been a while since then, hopefully a long while before the next time, too.
one of the worst mindsets in the world is the "it can't happen to me"
Agreed. Bad Things always happen to the other guy. To someone else, YOU are "the other guy".
Nobody can maintain constant vigilance, those who try wind up either failing on some level or making themselves crazy in a very real way. It's better to maintain a constant level of watchfullness and let your surroundings determine whether you ramp it up or not. That said, it a very good idea to have the basic tools with you rather than encountering a situation and being unprepared. For me, that means carrying a handgun and paying attention. There have been the very few occasions when that's been elevated to include a long arm and a bit of ammo and some additions to the basic first aid kit in the car. Been a while since then, hopefully a long while before the next time, too.
Zundfolge
Member
You're doing it wrong.
Proper gear coupled with a couple minor wardrobe alterations makes 24/7/365 CCW no more uncomfortable than carrying a cell phone (honestly my cell phone is more of a pain to carry than my gun, but I refuse to go out like Batman with a dozen things hanging on my belt).
I've been carrying 24/7/365 for most of the last decade. I'm to the point now where if I'm not wearing my gun I fell that same kind of odd one feels when they've forgotten their watch.
orionhawk
Member
I carry everywhere I go in civvies, other than work or other on-base activities (I am AD Navy).
I don't get to choose when I may have to defend my life.
I don't get to choose when I may have to defend my life.
Not to drift the thread, but I used to leave my gun in the car when I dropped by the barber shop. It's a small shop, in a small peaceful Wyoming town. I didn't want to make the owner uncomfortable when I take off my jacket. The barber shop is across the street from a bank and the drive up facility for the bank is next to the shop. Who would commit a crime with all of those security cameras around? I went to the bank a couple of weeks ago and I stopped by for a haircut...you guessed it, I left the pistol in the truck.
Two days later, a nut job walked into the barber shop, got a haircut and instead of producing his wallet to pay he pulled out a gun and robbed the barber in broad daylight. Kind of a reminder that stuff can happen anytime, any place.
Two days later, a nut job walked into the barber shop, got a haircut and instead of producing his wallet to pay he pulled out a gun and robbed the barber in broad daylight. Kind of a reminder that stuff can happen anytime, any place.
YammyMonkey
Member
Mike- try playing with the cants & locations, a little forward, a little back, way forward or back (but NOT on your spine), raise & lower the gun, etc… The Sparks holster won’t have as many options as the MTAC so you might want to play with the MTAC first & see what works out.
Zundfolge
Member
+100 on that MTAC.
Next time I need leather, that's what I'm ordering.
My EDC is a pancake holster I converted to IWB, so I have lots of adjustment ability (metal clips affixed to the holster with Chicago screws in the belt slots, a wide range of cant adjustment, I could set it up for cross draw even).
Next time I need leather, that's what I'm ordering.
My EDC is a pancake holster I converted to IWB, so I have lots of adjustment ability (metal clips affixed to the holster with Chicago screws in the belt slots, a wide range of cant adjustment, I could set it up for cross draw even).
Speedo66
Member
I carried when on duty and little otherwise.
If I was going somewhere where I felt it might be a good idea, I carried. That did not include most of the Bronx.
I live in suburbia where nothing happens, sorry, but nothing happens. I have means of defense in my home if it ever comes to that.
I was distressed to read here recently about someone's fear of showering without a gun handy. Again, if you are that afraid, you should do what ever it takes to move to a less stressful neighborhood.
I do not wish to live my life in a constant state of paranoia. Yes, I know the cliche about paranoia.
I balance, but chose mostly to go unarmed. Since retiring in March, I have not as yet filed for a civilian license, but I probably will.
I like to think my brain is my best weapon, with my mouth as a back up.
If I was going somewhere where I felt it might be a good idea, I carried. That did not include most of the Bronx.
I live in suburbia where nothing happens, sorry, but nothing happens. I have means of defense in my home if it ever comes to that.
I was distressed to read here recently about someone's fear of showering without a gun handy. Again, if you are that afraid, you should do what ever it takes to move to a less stressful neighborhood.
I do not wish to live my life in a constant state of paranoia. Yes, I know the cliche about paranoia.
I balance, but chose mostly to go unarmed. Since retiring in March, I have not as yet filed for a civilian license, but I probably will.
I like to think my brain is my best weapon, with my mouth as a back up.
Mini-revolvers, derringers and puny autos that jam sometimes give you no excuse not to carry comfortably at all times.
When the weather allows for more clothing than you can carry the bigger stuff.
A jacket can conceal a full size auto comfortably if you turn the gun so the grip is under your arm instead of the grip sticking out to the front. It may take a split second more to get it into action but with practice it can be done quickly.
Its that front bulge that a trained eye looks for to see if someone is carrying.
I never use carry holsters much except when I open carry.
When the weather allows for more clothing than you can carry the bigger stuff.
A jacket can conceal a full size auto comfortably if you turn the gun so the grip is under your arm instead of the grip sticking out to the front. It may take a split second more to get it into action but with practice it can be done quickly.
Its that front bulge that a trained eye looks for to see if someone is carrying.
I never use carry holsters much except when I open carry.
James T Thomas
Member
I can't believe it
Someone with more knowledge; please correct me.
But Paranoia lies in the category of a Neurosis; a compelling disorder that is merged with reality. As opposed to the full blown Psychosis which altogether are in the mind and not reality.
So; the balance is to know what is reality and not.
And simply because the reality we hope never comes, does not, then, do not make the inductive logic that it never will, and that you have veered into Paranoia.
It's nice to go light weight and carefree. But it is also wise to take the heavy coat, gloves and heavy boots if the forcast is for ice and snow.
Now the forcast is often wrong, but wouldn't it be foolish to go out unprepared just because it is a bother to have that heavy stuff?
Someone with more knowledge; please correct me.
But Paranoia lies in the category of a Neurosis; a compelling disorder that is merged with reality. As opposed to the full blown Psychosis which altogether are in the mind and not reality.
So; the balance is to know what is reality and not.
And simply because the reality we hope never comes, does not, then, do not make the inductive logic that it never will, and that you have veered into Paranoia.
It's nice to go light weight and carefree. But it is also wise to take the heavy coat, gloves and heavy boots if the forcast is for ice and snow.
Now the forcast is often wrong, but wouldn't it be foolish to go out unprepared just because it is a bother to have that heavy stuff?
mordechaianiliewicz
Member
That's going to vary from person to person, situation to situation.
On any normal day, I probably will have a loaded pistol in my car. I will probably trying to run in condition yellow throughout most of the day. I don't keep several loaded battle rifles in every room of my house, and have an xfiltration plan for everything that could happen.
SHTF scenario, I might get more serious.
Beach on a private island with a beautiful woman, this stuff would be the last thing on my mind....
I could easily have nothing occur in an SHTF scenario.
I could also have (insert bad guys) kill me on a deserted beach. But I have a prepare for the most "likely" scenario philosophy.
On any normal day, I probably will have a loaded pistol in my car. I will probably trying to run in condition yellow throughout most of the day. I don't keep several loaded battle rifles in every room of my house, and have an xfiltration plan for everything that could happen.
SHTF scenario, I might get more serious.
Beach on a private island with a beautiful woman, this stuff would be the last thing on my mind....
I could easily have nothing occur in an SHTF scenario.
I could also have (insert bad guys) kill me on a deserted beach. But I have a prepare for the most "likely" scenario philosophy.
newbie4help
Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
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- 229
The line between preparedness and paranoia has NOTHING to do with "how often you wear a gun/lock your doors, etc." Just like a seatbelt, those are things a person who is responsible always, everyday does. It'd be dumb not to wear a gun just because you're "going to the post office" or something - if you have the license, wear it. Danger rarely happens when you expect it. Take it from my personal experience.
The line for paranoia instead is when you are convinced that you will have to face some danger when no danger signs are evident. You know - the kind of person who sees someone in a parking lot in broad daylight and thinks they're going to rob them. Some people, especially when they start carrying regularly, can slip into this paranoid - it's not an on/off thing but from time to time at the beginning they may be paranoid. I've seen this with new cops too. But that's normal and with proper mindset and over time it goes away.
Some people have espoused a "only carry when you think it's likely" philosophy. This is irrational in my view. Look at it this way, from a statistical perspective. Anyone who's studied probability knows that, just because the chances of one individual event are very small, if you have tiny % + tiny % + tiny % + tiny % etc. the odds go significantly up that *something* will happen at some point. Eventually, throughout your life, the odds are fairly high that you will need your weapon even though when that exact moment is and where it will be are impossible to predict, **and the chances that it happened there and then were extremely small.** Same reason you should have a first aid kit in you car and why big buildings keep defib machines handy. And why airline pilots keep handguns nows.
You SHOULD NOT live your life scared, and constantly focused on the threat of physical danger though. Just live normally and don't really think about it consciously, but be prepared (like a boy scout).
The line for paranoia instead is when you are convinced that you will have to face some danger when no danger signs are evident. You know - the kind of person who sees someone in a parking lot in broad daylight and thinks they're going to rob them. Some people, especially when they start carrying regularly, can slip into this paranoid - it's not an on/off thing but from time to time at the beginning they may be paranoid. I've seen this with new cops too. But that's normal and with proper mindset and over time it goes away.
Some people have espoused a "only carry when you think it's likely" philosophy. This is irrational in my view. Look at it this way, from a statistical perspective. Anyone who's studied probability knows that, just because the chances of one individual event are very small, if you have tiny % + tiny % + tiny % + tiny % etc. the odds go significantly up that *something* will happen at some point. Eventually, throughout your life, the odds are fairly high that you will need your weapon even though when that exact moment is and where it will be are impossible to predict, **and the chances that it happened there and then were extremely small.** Same reason you should have a first aid kit in you car and why big buildings keep defib machines handy. And why airline pilots keep handguns nows.
You SHOULD NOT live your life scared, and constantly focused on the threat of physical danger though. Just live normally and don't really think about it consciously, but be prepared (like a boy scout).
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If I'm with my family, I'm packing a formidable weapon. I don't care if it hurts. My 1st priority is maintaining their security. That means I make sure they're safe, sheltered, and fed.
When I'm by myself I tend to carry a smaller, more comfortable weapon. I'm not so concerned about my own safety, I just have to make sure I stay alive to continue with my 1st priority.
I had very little interest in guns before I got married. I didn't carry until I had a kid. These events tend to change one's perspective.
When I'm by myself I tend to carry a smaller, more comfortable weapon. I'm not so concerned about my own safety, I just have to make sure I stay alive to continue with my 1st priority.
I had very little interest in guns before I got married. I didn't carry until I had a kid. These events tend to change one's perspective.
Southern Rebel
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Why? Peace of mind and being allergic to unneeded hassles of life. If you check your own body and your own car, I suspect that you will find several instances of "fulltime carry" of objects that are seldom if ever needed.
For instance, I have carried my driver's license for over 45 years and have needed it only twice in all that time. I have carried my car registration and proof of insurance - I have never received a request to see them by LEOs. I have carried cash in my wallet to insure that I had funds if a credit card would not be accepted. Very few times has that need arisen; probably not enough to justify the risk of being observed actually using cash to purchase and, Heaven forbid, alert the potential bad guys that cash was within their grasp!
The point is that we all tend to clutter our lives with various tools or objects that give us peace of mind that we will be prepared to handle whatever future events we encounter. Some of those tools or objects are preparation for future events that, even if they transpire, would be of very minor importance - certainly not in the same degree as personal or family protection.
The risk-taking comfort level varies greatly be individual. The need for peace of mind also varies greatly. Each individual has to decide what actions are necessary to enhance his or her quality of life versus the price to be paid for that enhancement.
Being a mathematician, I am fascinated by the percentages of probablility. I live in a relatively safe environment, but I will still seek to improve my odds of reduced risk to myself or my family. Your choices may be different for good and logical reasons.
For instance, I have carried my driver's license for over 45 years and have needed it only twice in all that time. I have carried my car registration and proof of insurance - I have never received a request to see them by LEOs. I have carried cash in my wallet to insure that I had funds if a credit card would not be accepted. Very few times has that need arisen; probably not enough to justify the risk of being observed actually using cash to purchase and, Heaven forbid, alert the potential bad guys that cash was within their grasp!
The point is that we all tend to clutter our lives with various tools or objects that give us peace of mind that we will be prepared to handle whatever future events we encounter. Some of those tools or objects are preparation for future events that, even if they transpire, would be of very minor importance - certainly not in the same degree as personal or family protection.
The risk-taking comfort level varies greatly be individual. The need for peace of mind also varies greatly. Each individual has to decide what actions are necessary to enhance his or her quality of life versus the price to be paid for that enhancement.
Being a mathematician, I am fascinated by the percentages of probablility. I live in a relatively safe environment, but I will still seek to improve my odds of reduced risk to myself or my family. Your choices may be different for good and logical reasons.
Where's the balance?
If a few extra steps ensures you keep living a happy, healthy, productive life, it's all good.
If you take that to the extreme where your self-defense mantra degrades your quality of life, you've gone too far.
When I read the Lessons from Katrina site, my initial thought was; how much prep is too much? When do I become a survivalist nutjob?
But honestly, the ideas espoused are good ones. Having a bag with my important documents lined up and ready to pull out in case of a fire makes an awful lot of sense, just takes an afternoon or two, and could save me weeks of rebuilding my lost data. That's prepared.
If his solution had been to live away from the cities so as to mitigate looting, keep a three year supply of food and water, take advanced weapons training courses, or enlist for a couple years to glean the weapons and survival training that might be useful if the excrement hits the rotating air mover, that would grossly impact my life. That's paranoid.
At the same time, if I wanted to live in the country and do a couple tours in Baghdad, then taking those hypothetical steps would have been preparedness.
Live the life you want to. Make sure you're enjoying yourself. The small things you can do -- whether that's drop a kel tec in your pocket on the way out the door, or have a bug out bag, or the like -- whose potential benefits outweigh the minor inconveniences they present are decisions one would choose as a rational adult.
If a few extra steps ensures you keep living a happy, healthy, productive life, it's all good.
If you take that to the extreme where your self-defense mantra degrades your quality of life, you've gone too far.
When I read the Lessons from Katrina site, my initial thought was; how much prep is too much? When do I become a survivalist nutjob?
But honestly, the ideas espoused are good ones. Having a bag with my important documents lined up and ready to pull out in case of a fire makes an awful lot of sense, just takes an afternoon or two, and could save me weeks of rebuilding my lost data. That's prepared.
If his solution had been to live away from the cities so as to mitigate looting, keep a three year supply of food and water, take advanced weapons training courses, or enlist for a couple years to glean the weapons and survival training that might be useful if the excrement hits the rotating air mover, that would grossly impact my life. That's paranoid.
At the same time, if I wanted to live in the country and do a couple tours in Baghdad, then taking those hypothetical steps would have been preparedness.
Live the life you want to. Make sure you're enjoying yourself. The small things you can do -- whether that's drop a kel tec in your pocket on the way out the door, or have a bug out bag, or the like -- whose potential benefits outweigh the minor inconveniences they present are decisions one would choose as a rational adult.
I have heard this addressed time and again by CCW holders to some minor annoyance, I have carried nearly every waking moment of the day (where law will allow) since receiving my CCW some years ago. I have rode horseback, exercised, worked, attended "dress" events and done everything while carrying a .45 ACP with a 4" barrel, and have never been "discovered" by anyone. The holster? A Smartcarry. While the draw may take longer than some more traditional holsters the comfort and concealment are outstanding. When in a situation where I deem it slightly less safe than the norm, I simply pop the pistol up over my belt and underneath my shirt allowing a very quick draw. I strongly encourage all CCW's to at least consider purchasing one of these. While not perfect, I find it to be as close as I can come.
Sorry to get a bit off topic,
Good luck, stay safe.
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