Twiki357
Member
Okay, I’ll through another one into the works here. I’ve been carrying a Llama Micro-Max (Basically a miniature 1911) for the last 8+ years now. It’s been totally reliable, but is a little finicky with HP ammo.
Which .380 pocket pistol under $600 is best and why?
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exavid
Member
My carry guns are a LCP and a Taurus 740 .40 caliber when I want more punch. Both have been totally reliable on factory ammo and my reloads. I tend to carry the LCP most of the time because of it's smaller size and weight. It took me quite a while to get the hang of accurate shooting with the LCP. Once I learned to ignore the sights and aim by sighting over the top of the slide it became much easier to get decent groups. I've put about 800 rounds of factory and reloads through the little mousegun without a problem.
Capp35
Member
Thanks for the info, but if you read earlier in this thread (a lot of posts), I said I had sold my PM9 black diamond because I considered it to big. If you can find me one smaller than the PM9 that meets my criteria, I am listing.
In fact my PM9 was listed here in the classifieds.
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baylorattorney
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+1 for llama
OregonJohnny
Member
Out of my 6 semi-auto handguns, my Ruger LCP is 1 of only 3 that have had no problems at all in hundreds of rounds. The other 2 are my Kahr CW9, and my XD40sc. It's a fantastic "all-day, every-day" pocket gun. I trust it 100%.
dogtown tom
Member
For some reason when you ask for recommendations for a gun "smaller than X" you will get thirty posts recommending a gun LARGER than "X".
"Recomendations" in this thread that are bigger/fatter/heavier than the OP's former PM9:
Bersa
Beretta 85
Walther PPK/S
S&W J frame revolver
Hi Point (hopefully in jest)
Llama MicroMax
All may be fine firearms but the OP specifically asked for smaller than the PM9.
baylorattorney
Member
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For some reason when you ask for recommendations for a gun "smaller than X" you will get thirty posts recommending a gun LARGER than "X".
"Recomendations" in this thread that are bigger/fatter/heavier than the OP's former PM9:
Bersa
Beretta 85
Walther PPK/S
S&W J frame revolver
Hi Point (hopefully in jest)
Llama MicroMax
All may be fine firearms but the OP specifically asked for smaller than the PM9.
The reason being, for me anyway, is I read the title alone and answered.
Capp35
Member
Well unless there are any more suggestions, I am down to two in the running.
P238... Fun shooting, great trigger, higher craftsmanship, bad rep for reliability, a little bigger/heavier.
LCP.... light/small, cheap, not as fun to shoot/trigger, great rep for reliability.
Need to decide................
P238... Fun shooting, great trigger, higher craftsmanship, bad rep for reliability, a little bigger/heavier.
LCP.... light/small, cheap, not as fun to shoot/trigger, great rep for reliability.
Need to decide................
Back to your original post....
"I know the P238 is the most refined of the five, but is it a true pocket gun?
I just got rid of my PM9 because it was not small enough."
IMO the P238 isn't a "true pocket gun" - little too big, little too heavy. An LCP will hide in normal, even snug fitting jeans. It won't sag and sway in a pair of nylon running pants. That's my definition of a true pocket gun - ANY pocket.
In addition, if the PM9 was too big, I don't see that the P238 is much better.
Seems like an easy choice to me.
BTW - I've owned 2 LCP's and they both function flawless. No, not a fun range gun, but most fun guns won't travel everywhere with you, either. No one gun for everything
"I know the P238 is the most refined of the five, but is it a true pocket gun?
I just got rid of my PM9 because it was not small enough."
IMO the P238 isn't a "true pocket gun" - little too big, little too heavy. An LCP will hide in normal, even snug fitting jeans. It won't sag and sway in a pair of nylon running pants. That's my definition of a true pocket gun - ANY pocket.
In addition, if the PM9 was too big, I don't see that the P238 is much better.
Seems like an easy choice to me.
BTW - I've owned 2 LCP's and they both function flawless. No, not a fun range gun, but most fun guns won't travel everywhere with you, either. No one gun for everything
Yes the P238 is a true pocket gun and is significantly smaller than the PM9 as you can see in the picture of my PM9 and my P238 side by side that I posted earlier in this thread.Back to your original post....
"I know the P238 is the most refined of the five, but is it a true pocket gun?
I just got rid of my PM9 because it was not small enough."
IMO the P238 isn't a "true pocket gun" - little too big, little too heavy. An LCP will hide in normal, even snug fitting jeans. It won't sag and sway in a pair of nylon running pants. That's my definition of a true pocket gun - ANY pocket.
In addition, if the PM9 was too big, I don't see that the P238 is much better.
Seems like an easy choice to me.
BTW - I've owned 2 LCP's and they both function flawless. No, not a fun range gun, but most fun guns won't travel everywhere with you, either. No one gun for everything
If the additional weight bothers you than maybe a P3AT, LCP, or maybe a TCP would be better for you.
By the way I don't know why the TCP is ignored so much in these threads because IMO it is superior to either the LCP or the P3AT.
PX15
Member
koka:
Respectfully, I would suggest that the TCP is ignored because it is NOT superior to either the LCP or P3AT in the minds of most gun owners who are searching for the perfect cc firearm choice.
I have three Ruger LCP's.. One travels in my back pocket every time I leave the house, and each one has been absolutely reliable (JOB 1), surprisingly accurate at self defense range, and actually very light and concealable..
How can the TCP be any better than that?
I believe I am correct in saying that the only two negatives you ever hear about the Ruger LCP are:
1.. Long trigger pull.
2.. Iffy external sights.
You seldom ever hear a complaint about the reliability, or accuracy, or ease of concealment, or any other criticism..
Well, in my experience the LCP does have a long trigger pull..
That works for me thank you, because it precludes an unintentional discharge and reduces the chances I'll shot myself in the left butt cheek withdrawing it in a crisis.
The LCP external sights are "iffy"..
But the LCP is not a range gun.. It is not a target pistol. It is designed specifically as a close up and personal self defense gun.. Or, in a confrontation the owner will pull the LCP point it at center mass of the target and pull the trigger until the threat is neutralized, or you hear a series of clicks indicatiing all 7 rounds have been fired.
If you have fired all 7 rounds in your defense and the threat is not neutralized, this would be an excellent time to run like hell...
But, IF you want better external sights, simply have the Innovative Arms upgrade and you have excellent, unncessary, but nice to have, external sights.
Even better, forget about external sights entirely and simply add the fine Crimson Trace Laser... Relatively inexpensive ($150?) to buy, and works perfectly..
You can buy a cc pistol made of higher "quality" parts.. You can buy a more expensive cc pistol.. You can buy a smaller cc pistol.. You can buy a more "desirable" cc pistol.
I know, I have one.
It's the very desirable and hard to find Seecamp LWS380.
But the truth is, for me, with the exception of being extremely small, I prefer the LCP for daily carry, and the external sights and laser are just icing on the cake..
I carry my Ruger LCP in a back pocket holster. I have absolute confidence that it will offer me as much personal protection in a small caliber pistol as you can buy, and will be as reliable and accurate and functional as ANY other pistol in it's "nitch".
No way the TCP can top that..
I'm not suggesting the TCP is not a very good firearm, I'm sure it is. But I am suggesting that sales alone indicate it simply is not "seen" as desirable as the Ruger LCP, or the Keltec P3AT from which it was cloned by the average person looking to buy a small concealed carry pistol.
I believe the Ruger LCP at $275.00 (+tax) offers as much mousegun as you can buy, NO MATTER THE PRICE but there are MANY other choices out there, including the TCP you value so highly, and none of them are bad choices as long as they are absolutely reliable, self defense accurate, and can be easily concealed on your person.
No offense to you, just conversin', not confrontin'..
Best Wishes,
Jesse
P.S. Perhaps the next time we can have a conversation about how the Ruger LC9 @ $365.00 (+tax) has relegated my previous iwb holster cc 9MM pistol of choice ($750.00 P2000sk) to the gun safe....
Respectfully, I would suggest that the TCP is ignored because it is NOT superior to either the LCP or P3AT in the minds of most gun owners who are searching for the perfect cc firearm choice.
I have three Ruger LCP's.. One travels in my back pocket every time I leave the house, and each one has been absolutely reliable (JOB 1), surprisingly accurate at self defense range, and actually very light and concealable..
How can the TCP be any better than that?
I believe I am correct in saying that the only two negatives you ever hear about the Ruger LCP are:
1.. Long trigger pull.
2.. Iffy external sights.
You seldom ever hear a complaint about the reliability, or accuracy, or ease of concealment, or any other criticism..
Well, in my experience the LCP does have a long trigger pull..
That works for me thank you, because it precludes an unintentional discharge and reduces the chances I'll shot myself in the left butt cheek withdrawing it in a crisis.
The LCP external sights are "iffy"..
But the LCP is not a range gun.. It is not a target pistol. It is designed specifically as a close up and personal self defense gun.. Or, in a confrontation the owner will pull the LCP point it at center mass of the target and pull the trigger until the threat is neutralized, or you hear a series of clicks indicatiing all 7 rounds have been fired.
If you have fired all 7 rounds in your defense and the threat is not neutralized, this would be an excellent time to run like hell...
But, IF you want better external sights, simply have the Innovative Arms upgrade and you have excellent, unncessary, but nice to have, external sights.
Even better, forget about external sights entirely and simply add the fine Crimson Trace Laser... Relatively inexpensive ($150?) to buy, and works perfectly..
You can buy a cc pistol made of higher "quality" parts.. You can buy a more expensive cc pistol.. You can buy a smaller cc pistol.. You can buy a more "desirable" cc pistol.
I know, I have one.
It's the very desirable and hard to find Seecamp LWS380.
But the truth is, for me, with the exception of being extremely small, I prefer the LCP for daily carry, and the external sights and laser are just icing on the cake..
I carry my Ruger LCP in a back pocket holster. I have absolute confidence that it will offer me as much personal protection in a small caliber pistol as you can buy, and will be as reliable and accurate and functional as ANY other pistol in it's "nitch".
No way the TCP can top that..
I'm not suggesting the TCP is not a very good firearm, I'm sure it is. But I am suggesting that sales alone indicate it simply is not "seen" as desirable as the Ruger LCP, or the Keltec P3AT from which it was cloned by the average person looking to buy a small concealed carry pistol.
I believe the Ruger LCP at $275.00 (+tax) offers as much mousegun as you can buy, NO MATTER THE PRICE but there are MANY other choices out there, including the TCP you value so highly, and none of them are bad choices as long as they are absolutely reliable, self defense accurate, and can be easily concealed on your person.
No offense to you, just conversin', not confrontin'..
Best Wishes,
Jesse
P.S. Perhaps the next time we can have a conversation about how the Ruger LC9 @ $365.00 (+tax) has relegated my previous iwb holster cc 9MM pistol of choice ($750.00 P2000sk) to the gun safe....
BADUNAME37
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For those who say do not get the .380 because of "expensive ammo," or "hard-to-find" ammo, remember, a defense gun needs to be reliable and does not need to be shot every weekend once it is determined to be a reliable carry gun and the shooter knows just how it shoots on paper. In fact, the smallness of the LCP makes it great for concealment, however it would not be the kind of gun I would take to the range for an afternoon of shooting!
To tell someone NOT to buy the LCP for those reasons, in my opinion, does not make sense.
I have a fair amount of ammo for my LCP, about half which is factory and the other half which is rolled by me. I have put about 500 rounds of at least 15 different makes and flavors of ammo through that gun and it never had a problem with any of it - with the gun both clean and very dirty!
I have total confidence that my LCP with Crimson Trace will shoot as expected, every time. That is more than I can say for some other guns out there.
To tell someone NOT to buy the LCP for those reasons, in my opinion, does not make sense.
I have a fair amount of ammo for my LCP, about half which is factory and the other half which is rolled by me. I have put about 500 rounds of at least 15 different makes and flavors of ammo through that gun and it never had a problem with any of it - with the gun both clean and very dirty!
I have total confidence that my LCP with Crimson Trace will shoot as expected, every time. That is more than I can say for some other guns out there.
BADUNAME37
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I would like to see a side-by-side comparison of size and weight of that vs. the LCP.
PX15
Member
koka:
Nope, and never will..
Here's why..
It's made by Taurus.
In past decades I've only owned two pistols made by Taurus.. A new PT22, which was a pos right out of the box. I also bought a used 9MM Taurus PT92? (whatever the Taurus clone of the Beretta used by the military is). It never functioned for me to my satisfaction.
I have read a zillion posts by Taurus owners on the various firearm forums complaining about the "lifetime warranty" offered by Taurus.. How poor it is, and how often a firearm returned to Taurus for warranty repair comes back, a long, long time later, still unrepaired.
The truth is I'm prejudiced against Taurus firearms, and just don't want one.. I'm the same way about Beretta as I had a new Tomcat that was absolutely a piece of crap, and had to be returned to the factory TWICE and blessedly was stolen in transit back the 2nd time and I was reimbursed by insurance. The folks at Beretta were absolutely asses, and I swore to never buy another firearm with Beretta enscribed on the barrel.
Now..
I know that Taurus and Beretta make some fine firearms. And I know that every manufacturer makes a lemon now and then. But both of the Tauri I had were sub-standard, and I just don't want any more, and I wouldn't deal with Beretta CS again on a bet.
No accounting for prejudice, it's just "what it is", but the reason I DO like Rugers is because I've had a pile of Ruger rimfire rifles, pistols and revolvers, centerfire pistols & revolvers since the early 1970's with nary a bad one in the bunch.
Or, 4 decades of excellence in the Rugers I've owned has made me a Ruger fan, and so far, my 3 LCP's and one LC9 have done absolutely nothing to change that.
I'm sure there is someone on this forum reading this post who has had the precise opposite experiences as I have, and that person loves Taurus and hates Ruger.. Just the way it goes.
EVERY Ruger firearm I've ever owned has been excellent.. That history of satisfaction with Ruger firearms keeps me coming back for more.
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to start a Ruger vs Taurus argument, nor offend you personally, as I only have my personal experience to draw from. I'm just telling you why I won't buy the Taurus TCP, or any other firearm made by Taurus..
But, look at the bright side..
That leaves one more TCP for someone who does appreciate the firearms made by Taurus.
Again, no offense, just conversin', not confrontin'.
Best Wishes,
Jesse
Nope, and never will..
Here's why..
It's made by Taurus.
In past decades I've only owned two pistols made by Taurus.. A new PT22, which was a pos right out of the box. I also bought a used 9MM Taurus PT92? (whatever the Taurus clone of the Beretta used by the military is). It never functioned for me to my satisfaction.
I have read a zillion posts by Taurus owners on the various firearm forums complaining about the "lifetime warranty" offered by Taurus.. How poor it is, and how often a firearm returned to Taurus for warranty repair comes back, a long, long time later, still unrepaired.
The truth is I'm prejudiced against Taurus firearms, and just don't want one.. I'm the same way about Beretta as I had a new Tomcat that was absolutely a piece of crap, and had to be returned to the factory TWICE and blessedly was stolen in transit back the 2nd time and I was reimbursed by insurance. The folks at Beretta were absolutely asses, and I swore to never buy another firearm with Beretta enscribed on the barrel.
Now..
I know that Taurus and Beretta make some fine firearms. And I know that every manufacturer makes a lemon now and then. But both of the Tauri I had were sub-standard, and I just don't want any more, and I wouldn't deal with Beretta CS again on a bet.
No accounting for prejudice, it's just "what it is", but the reason I DO like Rugers is because I've had a pile of Ruger rimfire rifles, pistols and revolvers, centerfire pistols & revolvers since the early 1970's with nary a bad one in the bunch.
Or, 4 decades of excellence in the Rugers I've owned has made me a Ruger fan, and so far, my 3 LCP's and one LC9 have done absolutely nothing to change that.
I'm sure there is someone on this forum reading this post who has had the precise opposite experiences as I have, and that person loves Taurus and hates Ruger.. Just the way it goes.
EVERY Ruger firearm I've ever owned has been excellent.. That history of satisfaction with Ruger firearms keeps me coming back for more.
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to start a Ruger vs Taurus argument, nor offend you personally, as I only have my personal experience to draw from. I'm just telling you why I won't buy the Taurus TCP, or any other firearm made by Taurus..
But, look at the bright side..
That leaves one more TCP for someone who does appreciate the firearms made by Taurus.
Again, no offense, just conversin', not confrontin'.
Best Wishes,
Jesse
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sharpie414
member
could not have said it better.My recommendation is to ditch the pocket 380. Please man, don't get it. You'll regret it.
1. Cost of 380 ammo, it's rediculous
2. Vs. a 9mm, you're not going to notice much of a size or weight difference
3. 9mm platform gives you increased velocity and energy
Keltec pf9 is a great gun. You'll save some cash getting it, and have money for some accessories.
IN THE END: I love my pocket gun, but don't carry it anymore
I'm really just keeping it for my kiddo when she's big enough-more a future purse gun.
although in this case it looks like he has a good iwb 9mm.
go with the lcp/p3at. i own a p3at and have put about 500 rounds through it since purchased with no problems; my best friend just bought an lcp and has about 300 rounds through it with no issue.
I also use the belt clip instead of a pocket holster...i just dont like stuff in my pockets.
adrianbaxter1807
Member
The Sig 238 for me is the most comfortable pocket .380.
Great trigger and easy sights. Light weight and actually
feels very secure!
Great trigger and easy sights. Light weight and actually
feels very secure!
Capp35
Member
Does Ruger make a LCP/Crimson trace package?
Any idea what the going price is?
Any idea what the going price is?
PX15
Member
Capp35:
Don't know if there is an LCP model w/CT, but you can buy the CT Laser for the LCP (LG431) online at many places for around $150.00. Putting it on the pistol is a piece of cake, make any adjustments necessary (windage/elevation) with the small hex screws that are supplied and you are "good to go"..
Ebay generally has good prices. Also, you can go to the dedicated LCP forum (www.elsiepea.com) and vendors there have competitive prices.
Best Wishes,
Jesse
Don't know if there is an LCP model w/CT, but you can buy the CT Laser for the LCP (LG431) online at many places for around $150.00. Putting it on the pistol is a piece of cake, make any adjustments necessary (windage/elevation) with the small hex screws that are supplied and you are "good to go"..
Ebay generally has good prices. Also, you can go to the dedicated LCP forum (www.elsiepea.com) and vendors there have competitive prices.
Best Wishes,
Jesse
I bought my wife the LCP, down here .380 has been pretty hard to find especially hp loads, so all it's been fed has been reloads. It would not function with unique, or blue dot. I tried bullseye, and win 231 next and it gobbled up 300rds without any problems. That was with 100gr Berry's plated. She also ran 100rds of 90gr xtp's not one hiccup.
Only complaint would be the sights.
Only complaint would be the sights.
catnphx
Member
If I remember, the P238 is a single action gun and I would not be in favor of using a SA for CCW. I'd want DAO for CCW. For me, that issue right there would put the LCP (which is DAO) in front for good.
Good luck on your decision.
Good luck on your decision.
exavid
Member
I had a Taurus TCP and actually liked it better than the LCP I now have. I would have kept it but it had a major mechanical failure. I returned it to Taurus and they replaced it at my request with the PT740 Slim I now have. The problem with the TCP was most likely a fluke, I haven't seen anyone on a forum having a similar problem and up 'til it occured the TCP was a reliable, accurate gun with a better trigger than the LCP and came with two magazines.
Capp35
Member
I love my single action 1911 (Springfield 9mm EMP) for CCW. Carried in a VM-2 IWB holster.
But thats just me.
I'm not sure though if I want a single action though, that would be carried in the pocket.
Capp35
Member
I kind of like the plated LCP. It would match my other stainless pistols.
Anyone know how they wear compared to the blued model?
Also weren't there some recalls on the LCP?
What were they and when did they revise?
Thx!
Anyone know how they wear compared to the blued model?
Also weren't there some recalls on the LCP?
What were they and when did they revise?
Thx!
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