Which bolt action .22 LR rifle would you recommend for accuracy from a bench or in the field?

[Varminterror]

@Varminterror - I edited the above for brevity. Hopefully, I didn’t break it up too bad or take things out of context.

TLDR: That 30moa rail is about as perfect as you can buy for your use of THAT scope at the ranges you have available to you. Nearly ideal for that scope in general.

I'm gonna break your quotes up too, to provide more detailed info:

I’m just about set to return my EGW 30 MOA rail. I was going to put it on my Ruger American Rimfire, Target model, and mount my Veridian Serac on top of it. Are you saying that maybe I don’t need to return it after all? [...] Please bear in mind that I will only occasionally shoot past 100 yards. There are only 2 ranges nearby. The one I belong to goes out to 100, and the other goes out to 250.

That Veridan Serac should have 55moa internal capacity, meaning +/-27.5 up and down from optical center. If you have 2" of optic height and zero standard velocity ammo at 50yrds, your zero will be ~12moa "UP" from optical center, eating 12 of the 27.5moa below center. Throwing a 30moa rail on top would raise your POI from +12 to -18, meaning you'd be dialing "DOWN" from optical center to hit 50yrds - but it CAN be zeroed at 50yrds. That would leave you with approximately 18+27.5 = 45.5moa of dialable range, out of your 55 total capacity, so you'd be able to dial out to 275yrds with no problem.

If you DO return that mount and use a flat base instead, then your 50yrd zero will be at +12, with only approximately +15.5 left to dial, so you'll run out of turret at ~155yrds and have to hold everything else past that in the reticle - and I generally don't like to hold more than ~15-20moa in the scope, and you'd need to hold almost 30moa in the reticle to get to 250 (not sure if your Serac is moa/moa, moa/mrad or how much you can hold). You CAN usually do that, hold 30, but it's kind of a train wreck waiting to happen, and you're looking through worse optical clarity in that bottom rim of the glass.

So yeah, I wouldn't return that 30moa rail - mount it up and party on. It's ALMOST perfect for your scope on your rifle to match your available ranges.

Also, you discussed map in terms of bases, rings, etc. Does it make any difference where that Mia is found? IOW, if I want 40 moa, do I need to get it all in the rail, or is it ok to get 20 in the rail and 20 in the bases?

Rings or rail, doesn't really matter. I have a 40moa rail on my ELR rifle and a 20moa 1pc ring mount, a couple of my 22's have 20moa bases plus 40moa ring shims. A couple of my 22's and centerfire rifles just have 20moa rails, a couple of my rifles just have 20, 30, or 40moa ring shims or 20moa 1pc mounts. Functionally, it all works.

A guy MIGHT make the argument that bases or 1pc mounts are better than ring shims, because a rail is always whatever angle it claims to be, but if you mount rings at different distances than specified, farther apart or closer together, you end up with more or less angle than expected, but in general, I find it's a non-issue. A guy also MIGHT make the argument that angled parts tend to cost more than a guy could buy in flat parts, so buying a 20moa rail AND a 20moa mount/rings might cost more than buying a 40moa base and normal/flat rings/mount, but eh... not a huge concern for me either... It's usually kinda hard to find stuff more than 20moa, so if a guy needs 40moa, it's pretty easy to get a 20moa base and 20moa rings. REALLY hard to find 60moa gear, so getting a 20+40 set up is much easier.

Please bear in mind that I will only occasionally shoot past 100 yards. There are only 2 ranges nearby. The one I belong to goes out to 100, and the other goes out to 250

At 100yrds, a 22LR will be VERY close to optical center if using a 20moa base/ring angle. We have ~17moa of gravitational drop compensation and 2" of optic height compensation, so ~19moa below optical center in a 100yrd zero, which means a 20moa base puts your 100yrd zero only 1moa off of optical center = about as perfect as we can ever expect.

With that 30moa rail you mention, you'll be approximately -11moa from optical center at 100yrds, and you'll still have room to spare below your 250yrd dial, not quite maxing out your turrets, so like I said above, that 30moa base is nearly perfect for your scope and your available ranges.

 

[Pat Riot]

I had considered shutting off the poll, but I am going to leave it. Pretty sure it ends this Friday. I’m curious about the end results.

 

[Pat Riot]

@Varminterror Thanks for your post above. I learned some things today.

 

[2ndtimer]

Agreed. Thank you. I always clean and lube new guns. I am already on the hunt for appropriate ammo. Pretty sure SK is gold plated or something. A little pricey for .22 LR. That’s okay though. It’s not plinking ammo.

Here are some “cheaper ammo” options recently fired out of my CZ-455 American at 50 yards from a rest. I typically use SK Standard Plus for matches, but these rounds are about half the price of the SK and didn’t do that bad.

 

[Spats McGee]

TLDR: That 30moa rail is about as perfect as you can buy for your use of THAT scope at the ranges you have available to you. Nearly ideal for that scope in general.

I'm gonna break your quotes up too, to provide more detailed info:




That Veridan Serac should have 55moa internal capacity, meaning +/-27.5 up and down from optical center. If you have 2" of optic height and zero standard velocity ammo at 50yrds, your zero will be ~12moa "UP" from optical center, eating 12 of the 27.5moa below center. Throwing a 30moa rail on top would raise your POI from +12 to -18, meaning you'd be dialing "DOWN" from optical center to hit 50yrds - but it CAN be zeroed at 50yrds. That would leave you with approximately 18+27.5 = 45.5moa of dialable range, out of your 55 total capacity, so you'd be able to dial out to 275yrds with no problem.

If you DO return that mount and use a flat base instead, then your 50yrd zero will be at +12, with only approximately +15.5 left to dial, so you'll run out of turret at ~155yrds and have to hold everything else past that in the reticle - and I generally don't like to hold more than ~15-20moa in the scope, and you'd need to hold almost 30moa in the reticle to get to 250 (not sure if your Serac is moa/moa, moa/mrad or how much you can hold). You CAN usually do that, hold 30, but it's kind of a train wreck waiting to happen, and you're looking through worse optical clarity in that bottom rim of the glass.

So yeah, I wouldn't return that 30moa rail - mount it up and party on. It's ALMOST perfect for your scope on your rifle to match your available ranges.



Rings or rail, doesn't really matter. I have a 40moa rail on my ELR rifle and a 20moa 1pc ring mount, a couple of my 22's have 20moa bases plus 40moa ring shims. A couple of my 22's and centerfire rifles just have 20moa rails, a couple of my rifles just have 20, 30, or 40moa ring shims or 20moa 1pc mounts. Functionally, it all works.

A guy MIGHT make the argument that bases or 1pc mounts are better than ring shims, because a rail is always whatever angle it claims to be, but if you mount rings at different distances than specified, farther apart or closer together, you end up with more or less angle than expected, but in general, I find it's a non-issue. A guy also MIGHT make the argument that angled parts tend to cost more than a guy could buy in flat parts, so buying a 20moa rail AND a 20moa mount/rings might cost more than buying a 40moa base and normal/flat rings/mount, but eh... not a huge concern for me either... It's usually kinda hard to find stuff more than 20moa, so if a guy needs 40moa, it's pretty easy to get a 20moa base and 20moa rings. REALLY hard to find 60moa gear, so getting a 20+40 set up is much easier.



At 100yrds, a 22LR will be VERY close to optical center if using a 20moa base/ring angle. We have ~17moa of gravitational drop compensation and 2" of optic height compensation, so ~19moa below optical center in a 100yrd zero, which means a 20moa base puts your 100yrd zero only 1moa off of optical center = about as perfect as we can ever expect.

With that 30moa rail you mention, you'll be approximately -11moa from optical center at 100yrds, and you'll still have room to spare below your 250yrd dial, not quite maxing out your turrets, so like I said above, that 30moa base is nearly perfect for your scope and your available ranges.

Thank you. Very helpful. This stuff still has a whole lot of PFM in it for me, but it's beginning to make sense.

 

[Pat Riot]

Here are some “cheaper ammo” options recently fired out of my CZ-455 American at 50 yards from a rest. I typically use SK Standard Plus for matches, but these rounds are about half the price of the SK and didn’t do that bad.
View attachment 1207201

Thanks very much. I haven’t tried Norma TAC 22. Actually I’m not sure if I have ever seen it on a store shelf. Then again , I wasn’t looking for it. I will be now.

 

[Pat Riot]

Thank you. Very helpful. This stuff still has a whole lot of PFM in it for me, but it's beginning to make sense.

Same here. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread I have limited experience with rifle scopes. This is all very helpful.

 

[Walkalong]

I won't put anything copper washed through my match rifles. Nothing but waxed/greased lead.

The new CZ settled down and shot very well very quickly. Its bore was/is very nice by the way, smooth and shiny.

 

[CraigC]

My LGS has a Savage Mk 2 BSEV in stock. I handled it and didn’t like it at all. That funky comb on the stock and my cheekbone would not get along.
View attachment 1207158

https://www.savagearms.com/DAM/assets/web/800/SA_25740_MarkII_BSEV_22LR_BoltActionRifle_Profile_R.png

I don't like all the funky thumbholes they do for rimfires. It's why I'd rather get the FV-SR model in the cheap plastic stock and order whatever I want from Boyd's.

 

[Pat Riot]

After the post by @Varminterror regarding the probable total elevation adjustments of the Viridian Serac I decided to send Viridian an an email about their scope and the total number of MOA one can expect to get with that scope.
I hope they respond because it to me several exasperating attempts to send them a message through there customer portal.
I will probably just call them.
I am debating whether or not I want or need a higher “cant” (if that’s the right word) or inclination(?) on my scope rail.
The reason I am debating this is I will probably go with Warne QD rings. They guarantee zero when removing and replacing one’s scope using their rings on a mil-std 1913 Picatinny rail. I did test this claim out on my SFAR with my Leupold scope in Warne QD rings and by golly, the zero wasn’t perfect, but it was darn close.
I may want to set things up to use two scopes on that rifle. The Serac for competition and a lower powered / smaller scope for hunting and pest control.
The more I think about this though, the more I think this isn’t that good of an idea. What do you all think?

 

[jmorris]

My 455 didn't really like anything for awhile, so the suggestion to shoot it, is a good one.

When it did settle down it really liked the Eley primed standard velocity Aguila, there on the right.

 

[jmorris]

I decided to send Viridian an an email about their scope and the total number of MOA one can expect to get with that scope.

I measured how much the cross hairs moved on the first one I opened. #148 in this thread https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...mm-tube-natchez-tax-refund-sale.929399/page-6 @LoonWulf did the math before I did in post #149 (~50).

 

[Pat Riot]

Thank you @jmorris . I am pretty this is the first time I have seen that Eley primed ammo. Or, I saw it and never realized what it was.
I really wish Aguila would label their boxes with a bit more emphasis on details of what’s in the box.

 

[jmorris]

Took me a bit to notice it too. It looked like the same thing when I bought it but it didn't shoot the same.

With .22's, if I find something they like, I get as much of that lot as I can get my hands on.

 

[Pat Riot]

I measured how much the cross hairs moved on the first one I opened. #148 in this thread https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...mm-tube-natchez-tax-refund-sale.929399/page-6 @LoonWulf did the math before I did in post #149 (~50).

Thank you for that link. I was so focused on my own doings that I forgot to revisit that thread. So it’s ~50 and MOA. That’s good information.

 

[I6turbo]

I may want to set things up to use two scopes on that rifle. The Serac for competition and a lower powered / smaller scope for hunting and pest control.
The more I think about this though, the more I think this isn’t that good of an idea. What do you all think?

I would not like the two-scope, switching arrangement. I occasionally swap scopes around, but I don't like to do it because it requires another range trip, decent weather, and some time to get the POI back exactly where I want it. Now, if all I needed to do was to hit a coke can size target across the yard, or a squirrel in sitting on a tree limb, then that sight-in shouldn't be necessary after the swap. But I'm not comfortable with trusting the accuracy of a newly re-installed scope if I can't test it.

I've found that variables in the 6-24 range are suitable for pretty much everything that I do with a rifle. I have some 4-16s, some straight 24x and 36x scopes on some guns, but all things considered, something in the range of 6-24 suits me pretty well for a multi-use gun. I also have some 4-16s that I like a lot, but when shooting for groups at anything further than 50 yards, I really want more magnification.

ETA: Regarding lower/mid-priced ammo and rimfires (and typically the case with CZs), be prepared to test several different versions to find the best one for your gun at a given price point. I've had different makes/models of ammo in the same price range vary in group size by as much as 3x in a given gun, and 2x isn't uncommon at all. Even similarly priced ammo from the same manufacturer may shoot much differently in one gun than another -- one version shoots better in one gun, the other version better in another gun.

 

[Pat Riot]

Thank you @I6turbo
Good advice. I appreciate it. I think I will skip my idea. I also think I will also forego the QD rings for the scope as well. Just one more thing that could get bumped and loosen the footing of the scope. It’s not a tactical scope where I may need to switch to back up sights quickly.

 

[Pat Riot]

Has anyone had experience with Area 419 scope rails for the CZ 457?
I like @Varminterror ’s idea for using a 30MOA rail and I discovered this sight poking around on DDG.

https://www.area419.com/product/cz457-scope-base/

 

[I6turbo]

Has anyone had experience with Area 419 scope rails for the CZ 457?
I like @Varminterror ’s idea for using a 30MOA rail and I discovered this sight poking around on DDG.

https://www.area419.com/product/cz457-scope-base/

There's a very active CZ/BRNO forum on RimfireCentral. A lot of people there report using the Area 419 stuff for the 457s and say it works great.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

I voted for the Ruger American Target only because thats what I have and for what I use it for, squirrels, practice, and just plain fun it's more accurate than it needs to be.

For a factory made target rifle only my vote is OTHER for a Bergarga B14R. My best friend has one and it's crazy accurate with me behind the scope. It's a very good shooter with him also he just don't practice as much as I do. I told him if he ever wants to sell it that he may as well bring it over and leave it in my safe.

 

[jmorris]

I would not like the two-scope, switching arrangement. I occasionally swap scopes around, but I don't like to do it because it requires another range trip, decent weather, and some time to get the POI back exactly where I want it.

Its as hard as you make it. I have some scopes that have never moved but have some I use different optics on the same rifle, the same day (day/night).

IF you can shoot and have a good rest, one shot does the trick for hunting with them, you can add as many extra you think you need though.

One shot zero

www.youtube.com

I made this for when I didn't want to shoot, just line up with first optic, swap them and ensure #2 is where #1 was.



For the rifles I swap all the time, I mount pistol lasers to them, set to my zero. Easiest way I have come up with, so far.

 

[Varminterror]

Has anyone had experience with Area 419 scope rails for the CZ 457?
I like @Varminterror ’s idea for using a 30MOA rail and I discovered this sight poking around on DDG.

https://www.area419.com/product/cz457-scope-base/

The Area419 CZ rail is good to go. I'm not sure there is any better option any more - they knocked that mount out of the park.

 

[Spats McGee]

....

One shot zero

www.youtube.com

I made this for when I didn't want to shoot, just line up with first optic, swap them and ensure #2 is where #1 was.

View attachment 1207285

For the rifles I swap all the time, I mount pistol lasers to them, set to my zero. Easiest way I have come up with, so far.

Two items: (1) that one-shot zero is impressive! and (2) any chance we could get a pic of that gizmo above in action? I think I know how it works, but am not quite sure.

 

[Varminterror]

The reason I am debating this is I will probably go with Warne QD rings. They guarantee zero when removing and replacing one’s scope using their rings on a mil-std 1913 Picatinny rail. I did test this claim out on my SFAR with my Leupold scope in Warne QD rings and by golly, the zero wasn’t perfect, but it was darn close.

Other folks have mentioned the pitfalls of swapping scopes around, but I'll point out - it's really not the challenge some folks make it out to be. ALSO, I'll point out, a guy doesn't have to use a QD mount to be able to quickly and easily swap scopes around, and frankly, more frequently, we'll see non-QD mounts repeat much better than QD versions.

As an example, I pull scopes from my PRS rifles pretty frequently... My Kahles needs a 12wk vacation to go back over the ocean to get the illumination repaired, but I only need it for 2 matches per season, so I just pull my Kahles and stick on a different scope, and put the Kahles back on after the match - Seekins Precision rings, pushed forward, torqued to the same setting, and I'm groovy. Back on the same zero. Not close - the same zero. I had an issue with my new Bat action when I was breaking in the barrel a few weeks ago, the screws kept coming loose, so I pulled my Hawkins mount every 5 shots and retightened the screws. I was shooting round robin for load dev, ten round ladders, so I removed my scope at least TWICE between each shot of each group, but the zero came back every time - same deal, put it back in the same slots, push it forward, torque the mount screws to the same setting and it was hitting the same zero. Not close - the same zero. I've taken optics off of one rifle and used them to validate another rifle, dialing to the new zero on the new rifle, but not slipping the turrets, and when I bring the mount back to my original rifle, zero comes back to zero (usually a Vortex or Burris mount or Seekins or Burris rings). Multiple times over the last 8 years, I have pulled my scope from one of my PRS rifles during matches and reinstalled it after checking the base torque - it comes back to the same zero. Torque and position, plus quality mounts and stress-free bedding the rails makes a big difference. If we're not bending the mount or scope when we connect to the rail, and we place it the same and torque it the same, then they're more apt to go back to the same place, every time.

 

[jmorris]

Two items: (1) that one-shot zero is impressive! and (2) any chance we could get a pic of that gizmo above in action? I think I know how it works, but am not quite sure.

It's this.

Jackrest

www.youtube.com

Just need a stable rifle while you correct the adjustments. If you note, that rifle was aimed, unloaded, at the 2" target before I started the camera. It's stable enough, I just didn't move it, loading and chambering the round. Turning turrets requires even less force.