which C&B revolver?

[grter]

Old model blackhawk parts as well as old army pop up from time to time.

The hardest part to get these days is the one that happens to be the most prone to breakage and that is the base pin which is an exclusive old army only part that ruger no longer makes.

That will bend if you forget to turn that screw you are talking about into the locked position before using the loading lever to force a ball in the cylinder.

Some guy does make stainless base pins (the one that holds the loading lever rammer assembly) for $69.00 (pricey but it's an uncommon design)

Other than that I got to say most Old Army parts don't break easily or anytime soon.

 

[ROAshooter]

All this concern for ROA parts....seems rather unfounded....having shot one since 1974.....with thousands of rounds downrange.....and NOT one single part has broken or needed replacement for wear.
Yes one can bend a base pin.....from NOT paying attention to what your doing....not one reproductive BP pistol will stand up to the usage my Old Army has seen....and I have not one doubt...it will continue to function perfectly till I give up shooting it.

 

[Crawdad1]

A newer Uberti Remington with its forged frame and dovetailed front sight will do anything a ROA will do plus its cheaper and there are plenty of parts for it. Plus its historic and its a lot sleeker than a ROA.

 

[justin22885]

hows the finish on the ubertis?.. is it just..mediocre like the piettas?.. wouldnt be any loss if i decided to refinish it?

 

[RPRNY]

ROA or Rogers & Spencer. Although, spare parts is a problem for either. Barring either of these, which are, in my opinion the most practical and effective BP revolvers (except for that rather important spare parts problem), a late model 1858.

For stopping power and sheer brutality, hands down, the Walker. I will in my dotage, have a brace in pommel holsters and ride about causing mild concern wherever I go.

 

[Crawdad1]

A friend has the case colored frame and it looks ok, but it shoots very well even with max out loads.

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/pr...on-army-44-cal-color-case-hardened-frame.html

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand...ackstrap-brass-trigger-guard-model-100ch.html

 

[TruthTellers]

hows the finish on the ubertis?.. is it just..mediocre like the piettas?.. wouldnt be any loss if i decided to refinish it?

The finish on my Pietta is nice. Besides, what does finish matter if this is a last ditch gun anyway?

 

[justin22885]

The finish on my Pietta is nice. Besides, what does finish matter if this is a last ditch gun anyway?

it would be purely for aesthetics

 

[justin22885]

ROA or Rogers & Spencer. Although, spare parts is a problem for either. Barring either of these, which are, in my opinion the most practical and effective BP revolvers (except for that rather important spare parts problem), a late model 1858.

For stopping power and sheer brutality, hands down, the Walker. I will in my dotage, have a brace in pommel holsters and ride about causing mild concern wherever I go.

well, theres another one i havent considered much, probably because its not that easy to find.. i hear the rogers and spencer design is actually better than the remington

 

[Crawdad1]

Since shooting these revolvers since 1976 I've broken one hand spring and lost one screw but that would be enough right there to render the ROA out of commission.

 

[justin22885]

on my 1860 army, about a week after getting it the bolt spring completely snapped.. however, instead of buying a replacement 1860 spring from pietta, i bought a bolt spring for an 1873 SAA.. i got the round one made out of a wire and it hasnt broke since.. i figured in a real pinch i could probably have made that part myself

 

[justin22885]

aah.. this is the 1858 i need, i bet it would be hard to lose a screw for this

http://oddstuffmagazine.com/biggest-gun-of-the-world.html

 

[ROAshooter]

"aah.. this is the 1858 i need, i bet it would be hard to lose a screw for this"

my apologies...I thought your posting was serious...now I see it isnt

 

[oldfogey4ever]

For Ruger Blackhawk parts, you can go to Ruger, Brownells, or MidwayUSA and have almost all your parts needs pretty well covered. ClassixBallistix makes cylinders for Ruger Old Army (exceeds the strength of the originals, 'course the cost of a cylinder ranges from $280 to $350, so the prices mirrors the cylinder's strength - astronomical)!

For 1858 springs, you can go here or here (offers a few different thicknesses of bolt and trigger springs, both lighter than "factory",) just remember to 'clearance' the spring from all sides (refer to this Guns magazine article [starts at page 17,] to properly learn to clearance and 'tune' your spring). If you would rather have "factory" weight springs, you can order them here, here or here!

This should (if you follow the steps outlined,) end your spring breakage and make your shooting outings much more pleasureable! While you're at the Wolff spring site, get the 'lightened' mainspring to lighten your hammer pull (when you re-work your hammer to fit into the safety notches of your cylinder, you decrease the striking area of your hammer which actually increases the striking energy transferred by the hammer onto the percussion cap)!

 

[swathdiver]

A newer Uberti Remington with its forged frame and dovetailed front sight will do anything a ROA will do plus its cheaper and there are plenty of parts for it. Plus its historic and its a lot sleeker than a ROA.

Bill Ruger wanted the Old Army and Blackhawk to be very strong. So strong, his engineers filled an Old Army's chamber full of smokeless powder, crunched a round ball down on top of it and fired it. No problem. It has also routinely fired 40 grain charges of 4F powder with no ill effects either.

I do not think the Uberti is up to that task, but on every other point I agree with you!

And fellas, don't go trying to duplicate what Bill's engineers did or use full chamber charges of 4F neither! If ya just hafta try 4F, use it under a conical at 1/10 of bullet weight.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Since shooting these revolvers since 1976 I've broken one hand spring and lost one screw but that would be enough right there to render the ROA out of commission.

I wouldn't worry about it. The ROA uses a reliable plunger and coil spring for the pawl (aka hand) which if someone managed to break, or loose is still available new. Alternatively, it could easily be replaced with a random similar spring if necessary.

 

[justin22885]

it would be pretty cool if someone actually made a cap and ball revolver designed to take higher pressures with smokeless powder

the last 1858 i owned was a pietta, i liked it, but i think next time around i will go with an uberti

 

[grter]

it would be pretty cool if someone actually made a cap and ball revolver designed to take higher pressures with smokeless powder

the last 1858 i owned was a pietta, i liked it, but i think next time around i will go with an uberti

That was a cylinder full of bullseye powder (a very very powerful fast burning smokeless pistol powder) in the Old Army Cylinder.

The Ruger Old Army uses the same heat treated metals that are used in the .357 Black Hawk.

The materials used in the Ruger Old Army can handle hot smokeless loads with no problem

IT IS THE OLD FASHIONED PERCUSSION CAP DESIGN THAT LIMITS IT TO BLACK POWDER.

The Old Army won't blow up but it is possible the nipple can blow right out the back into your face along with hot gasses.

Someone did blow up a cartridge conversion cylinder with a hot hand loaded .45 cartridge in a Ruger Old Army. The conversion cylinder blew up pretty good but there was no damage to the Ruger Old Army.

Most companies don't find it necessary to heat treat and quality control their black powder firearms in the same manner as their modern smokeless ones because they don't expect them to be loaded to same higher pressures as modern smokeless arms.

This decreases the cost to make the firearm and that price savings is passed on to the customers.

Although the Ruger Old Army when it was made was and still is the most durable and possibly the best cap and ball revolver made a lot of people simply did not want to pay the money it cost for it.

The cheaper made (soft easy to machine steel) and priced cap and ball revolvers (Italian made mostly) just blew the Ruger Old Army away price wise which I am sure hurt Old Army sales.

A Ruger Old Army is the best buy even at todays inflated prices. The internal parts are not going to wear away like the soft internals (the best of the cheapies are only thinly case hardened on the surface) of the cheaper cap and ball revolvers.

The Old Army does not use cheap leaf springs but high quality coil springs for everything except the locking latch spring which is a high quality bent into shape wire spring. I know you can figure the advantages.

The cheapies are not bad at all but the Ruger Old Army is just going to be fathoms more durable and reliable than any of them.

I do like the cheapies but if you find a good Old Army at a good price just get it. You can even stuff the Old Army cylinders full of 4f (ffffg) powder without worrying if you want really hot black powder loads.

 

[justin22885]

That was a cylinder full of bullseye powder (a very very powerful fast burning smokeless pistol powder) in the Old Army Cylinder.

The Ruger Old Army uses the same heat treated metals that are used in the .357 Black Hawk.

The materials used in the Ruger Old Army can handle hot smokeless loads with no problem it is the old fashioned percussion cap design that can't. The Old Army won't blow up but it is possible the nipples can blow right out the back into your face along with hot gasses.

Someone did blow up a cartridge conversion cylinder with a hot hand loaded .45 cartridge in a Ruger Old Army. The conversion cylinder blew up pretty good but there was no damage to the Ruger Old Army.

so how many smokeless loads have you fired form the old army?

 

[rem1858]

I can seat 50 grains by volume of Pyro-P under a felt wad and lead round ball in my ROA.
The balls are flush with the cylinder mouth and they do not move under recoil.
Oh, the recoil is pretty potent, even the loading lever drops two or three times per cylinder.
It reminds me of a .357 magnum in feel.

It is a blued, 7.5" made in 1978.
I normally load 40 grains and rarely load 50, but I know it can handle it.

Clarence

 

[rem1858]

Justin;

Don't even think about using smokeless in a C&B, not even an ROA.

Lets keep it safe out there, alright ?

Clarence

 

[justin22885]

there seems to be a fair amount of aftermarket still floating around for the old army, even aftermarket cylinders as well that claim more capacity, id be a lot more interested in the old army if it was actually higher capacity than the 1858... similarly weighted and similar design if theres a performance edge there then it would really interest me.. and the POSSIBILITY of loading smokeless powder which everyone seems to believe is too risky to chance doesnt really impress me much

 

[oldfogey4ever]

There are places in England where cap 'n ball pistols are routinely modified to accept smokeless powder (course over there they have a whole 'nother set of proctology exams to own a cartridge-firing gun : Percussion they don't seem to have a problem with as much).

 

[ROAshooter]

I concur with REM1858....Ruger did the smokeless as a demonstration of strength...but....did not encourage others to do the same.....

 

[grter]

Member


Join Date: November 9, 2009
Posts: 1,592
Quote:
Originally Posted by grter
That was a cylinder full of bullseye powder (a very very powerful fast burning smokeless pistol powder) in the Old Army Cylinder.

The Ruger Old Army uses the same heat treated metals that are used in the .357 Black Hawk.

The materials used in the Ruger Old Army can handle hot smokeless loads with no problem it is the old fashioned percussion cap design that can't. The Old Army won't blow up but it is possible the nipples can blow right out the back into your face along with hot gasses.

Someone did blow up a cartridge conversion cylinder with a hot hand loaded .45 cartridge in a Ruger Old Army. The conversion cylinder blew up pretty good but there was no damage to the Ruger Old Army.

Justin asks

so how many smokeless loads have you fired form the old army?



None because it's not a good idea however the strong heat treated steel does offer a greater safety factor as well as a longer life.

I would not load a remington or colt with the hotter loads I could put in an Old Army such as a full cylinder of 4f.

The Old Army will surely handle hotter loads without premature wear or damage that would occur when used in the soft steel imports. It should handle a steady diet with no problem.

The only other ones that can match the Old Army using 3f (fffg) powder would be the Dragoon with 50 grains of 3f and the Walker would probably beat the Old Army in power if loaded with 60 grains or the 50 grain connical load (I really like the Walker. I wish I had one.) I personally would not even dream of loading those 2 with 4f (ffffg) powder.

That being said the CURRENT (with the older ones [made without cnc machines] buyer beware inspect before buying) Italian Remington copies have a pretty good reputation for good reason the one I have handled was excellent (that does not mean it's an Old Army though.)

The current Colt copies I don't have experience with but be prepared to tinker with some more than others to squeeze the most out of them (search this forum to learn more.) Watch out for anything made in the non CNC machine days. I am not saying they are all bad just check them first.

The use of a strong steel cylinder loader such as the one powder incorporated makes (my favorite) or the tower of power (I never tried that one) can enable you to cram a bit more powder in the cylinder.