Which do you prefer

[Mac Attack]

I was reading one of the "If the world ended tomorrow which rifle would you grab" threads and noticed several references to flintlocks as a viable solution. I have always been intrigued with flintlocks but read that they can be more temperamental than a cap rifle. One day I would like to add a nice flinter to my small BP collection (read this as 1 rifle) but I still am new to BP shooting and want to get the hang of my cap rifle before I make the leap to a flinter.

Out of curiosity, do you prefer a Flintlock or Percussion Capped rifle?

 

[StrawHat]

Mac Attack,

Not for an end of the world scenario but I have a use for both systems.

For hunting, I prefer the flintlock. I have an 1803 Harpers Ferry replica that I like a lot. Also some of the long rifles.

For target work, I use an underhammer percussion rifle and have no regrets. It is the original inline and behaves as such. The cap fires directly into the charge and there is no hammer or flash inches away from my eyes to distract my attention from the target.

I am trying to convince a builder I know to build a flint underhammer for me!

That would be the best of both worlds!

 

[Jamie C.]

As long as the world isn't ending and I can still get percussion caps, I prefer percussion guns, since they're less picky about what powder they'll run with.

I wouldn't mind having a flinter to play with though.


J.C.

 

[bigbadgun]

For the end of the world sinario I want the flinter but for now caps are fine but i am going to add a flinter to my collection very soon.

 

[eagle24]

Six years ago, I quit hunting whitetails with a firearm and went exclusively to hunting with a longbow. Last year, I really needed to harvest a few does from the property I hunt, but when all was said and done I only managed to take one. Had plenty of 30 to 40 yard shots that would have been within the range of a flintlock. So, next year I will be in the woods some of the time with a flinter. For me it is a flintlock. I would add that you will need (at least I did) to do some work to become proficient. I have really enjoyed learning to shoot a flintlock and can't help believing it will make me better with all my firearms.

 

[Pancho]

The flint ignition system served shooters longer than percussion and cartridge systems combined. Mainly because it served shooters so well. The flinter lasted well into the 20th century at least in my home state of Kentucky. I still feel something special when I hunt with mine, a firm connection with my history. I would choose a smoothbore flinter for the end of days scenario because there is nothing that can't be found and made to shoot a flintlock.

 

[sundance44s]

Pancho ..glad you brought up the smoothbore flintlock..I bought a 54 cal smoothbore flintlock last year ...They don`t shoot as bad as I thought ..within range , well places shots can be made in deerhunting range 50 yards or so with a round ball ...and haveing the option to load ..lets say a hand full of small pebbles , one could take game of feather or fur bearing small game with out a problem .

 

[Seafarer12]

A flintlocks are fun but can be a pain hunting because of moisture. I have both and both have worked well for me. I like shooting the caplock more because it is easier to clean. My flint is a full stocked custom made rifle. It is a pain to pull the barrel and clean it. My caplock I just have to pull a wedge pin and clean it out. Now if I was able to get a hawken like my caplock in a flintlock it would be the best of both worlds. But nobody makes a reasonably priced lefthanded flintlock hawken as far as I know.

 

[eagle24]

A flintlocks are fun but can be a pain hunting because of moisture. I have both and both have worked well for me. I like shooting the caplock more because it is easier to clean. My flint is a full stocked custom made rifle. It is a pain to pull the barrel and clean it.

I'm the opposite on the cleaning issue. Like you, I have a full stock custom rifle. I remove the lock (2 screws), attach a barrel flushing system over the touch hole, drop the rubber hose in a bottle of warm soapy water and pump water in and out of the bore using a patch and cleaning jag. Dry it out and run a patch with oil. While I'm cleaning the barrel the lock is soaking in soapy water, brush it with a toothbrush, dry, oil and reinstall. I do run a patch a day later and make sure I see no trace of rust.

 

[jethro75]

I would have to say flintlock, because thats what I have. In PA during the season after christmas you can only use a flintlock. I got an RMC which I really like. I think they are the best flintlock that I have seen short of being custom. Cleaning is no hassel. Remove the wedge srew(instead of a pin) pull off the barrel and it has a breech plug.
Mine has a 1/28 twist and will clover leaf conicals at 50yards. havent tried Sabots but they are supposed to shoot well also. You can get them in other twist rates.
You can check them out here http://www.rmcsports.com/
With the quality parts and fit and finish they are well worth the price IMHO.

 

[Chazz]

I prefer the Flintlock, it could be easily converted to a Matchlock if you run out of flint in situation X. However I don't own a Flintlock, but sounds like a good choice to me.

 

[Pancho]

Chazz, You've got a point. Flint is not that easy to find everywhere in the U.S. and Canada. Actually Flintridge, Ohio was a very popular spot for the ancients and I'm told that the Indians around Tenn. and Kentucky depended on trade with the tribes around Flintridge for their Flint.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Don't know anything about a flintlock other than what I'vd read on here.
I do believe that if I were using the gun only for occasional self defense and to help secure food for myself that the money I would pay for a good flintlock (I said a good flintlock) would buy me enough caps and balls to last me through damn near the rest of my lifetime....

 

[Malamute]

I knew a guy many years ago that built some convertible guns. He had a percussion and flint lock for the gun, the percussion lock had a drum and nipple, instead of a hooked or patent breach. He could remove the drum from the barrel, install an insert in the drum hole with a flint touch hole, and the flint lock, and be going as a flinter. I haven't seen anyone doing this recently, has the drum system fallen out of favor? The drums were used to convert flinters to percussion back in the day, when percussion was becoming more common.

 

[Macmac]

Rifle only or any flinter long gun?

I have 3 long guns, one is a rifle and I'ld like one more rifle. I have a .40 cal kentucky long rifle, and would like a .62 bore long rifle.

I also have a Nor West Gun in .62 smooth bore and a Bess in .75

I have modern guns in rifle and shot gun types as well.

I have no cap lock long guns now and want none.

But let me say I like most began with brass case guns and worked back to cap locks and then to flinters which I spent just about 25 years shooting as flint only, so what I know and can do with a flinter is like sticking a fork with food in my face.

I would suggest shooting a cap lock a good long time, and then if you want and can afford a GOOD flintlock that you buy a GOOD flintlock, and not a sleasey copy of some fools idea that makes thousands a week.


It is very hard to mass produce a GOOD Flint lock. A good flint lock can do what any cap gun can do, and will never do it anything lesser than a cap lock.

None of mine have wedges to pull and I almost never pull the barrel more than once a year. I do once each year and clean under it and replace the gasket under it then if it needs to be replaced at all. Most years the gasket is just fine.

So yes in my worst case flintlock long guns will most certainly have a top placing if TSHF.

I have a lot of reasons why this is true, but you can bank on I will also have a little something modern for that real bad day incase too.

I disagree strongly that it is even possible to run out of flints.. I can't see how? I have only been in 40 states with any cherts which is a like flint sone and I just can't fathom how that ignition would ever not have a rock in the jaws.

I can and have on a bet dunked some of my flinters in a pond and left them there loaded for 15 minutes and knew they would speak on command and they do. If you become that familar yours will too.

A flinter is more than a gun, it is a survial kit. With no powder you can start fires, and with no knife you can dress any game in North America.

I'ld like to see a cap lock gun do that.

I have 2 cap lock guns and both are six shooters.

But doing this the right way takes time with a good cap lock gun first.

In these days we must learn in reverse. In my time I forgot I owned brass cartridge guns at all, but 9-11 woke me up.

There are others better versed than me, I just happen to be the only here that has seemingly spent as much time dealing with flinters.

I had some real junk in the beginning too, total trash, and I could easily agree that flinters hang fire, don't work, don't work wet, and have lots more nasty things to say, but I stayed with it and came on some much better flinters before I got what I have now.

I can load and fire my .62 6 times in a minute timed and hit what I shot at as well. I cam almost beat that with the Bess because it is cut down. These are both smooth bore and can shoot 2 balls and shot at the same instant if I please.

Rifles can't be loaded nearly that fast, and will refuse multiple projectiles. There isn't anything stopping you from putting more balls down the bore but you won't hit the way the rifle was ment too that way.

I am far from the best shot, but I can hit with a flinter rifle about half as far as it will take game, apx 200 yards. If I was truely a good shot I should be able to take game at 400 yards. Alas we can't have and be everything...

I have taken more game with the smoothbore in .62 than anyother kind of gun no matter what.. it will take any game in North America that walks crawls or flies.

 

[arcticap]

I have only shot a flintlock on on occasion when an experienced club member asked me if I wanted to shoot his. The rifle fired instantaneously and very accurately at close range. But the blast from the pan went up under my safety glasses and greatly irritated my eyes. That turned me off to flintlock shooting.
I was told since then that isn't the norm and that the pan could have been over primed with too much powder. Maybe it was and I thought that if I ever had the opportunity to try it again, maybe I would. But I would definitely hesitate because of that first negative experience.
I enjoy shooting lighter and shorter carbine type rifles rather than ones with longer barrels, and I also like having the option to shoot with substitute powders and the ease of using caps.
I realize that caplocks can also be problematic at times, but I really have grown so accustomed to shooting caplocks that I just don't think that I could ever quite enjoy shooting a flintlock as much.
Also, I can't see how a flintlock could replace a mule ear lock as my favorite.

 

[Macmac]

arcticap , with out being there it is hard to say, what caused that, but it has never happened to me, and in primitive events almost no one uses safety eye wear.

It takes very little primer to fire the gun, and the rule of thumb is the pan should have only as much powder as will level off apx 1/32" below the vent.

Often times new folks will place in so much that the vent is totally covered, which in turn, when the gun is fired causes a delay, as the powder must first burn off to level with the vent or below.

Most events I attend are primitive events and we are times, and have other tasks included like setting a double spring trap, throwing a knife and a hawk, finding items like white quartizite, oak leaves, certain kinds of berries, and other assorted items to remember in order, which can be cardboard targets not to be shot at, in animal shapes. The hard part is running, while loading and seeing these sometimes hidden targets and then having to reapeat what you saw in order.

Many of these Senca runs also inclue items as if you were to camp out 3 nights, so you carry what ever you want and must verably justify why you have and or don't have items. You most often must start fire with 2 methods none modern, and this once more is all timed.

The point is assuming you were not doing any of this, I can't understand how you got that blast of powder in your face. All I can say and I do believe it happend, is something was wrong, or someone wanted to scare you. Like often happens to a newbie and some fool passes over a 30-06 for the newbies first ever shot in his whole life, and the fool who did it has a laff at the newbies expence, which I wholley consider to be a sin!

With out comments such as yours, I can't even comment on what should be. I am too familar and forget as the years have been many. When I encounter problems the fixes come fast, and with out pondering on what should be done, when it comes to flinters.

This is like driving stick shift for 45 years, and trying to tell someone who never has.

 

[arcticap]

Other people have told me that too, that someone might have had a laugh over it. But let's assume that the pan wasn't overcharged and I was sensitive to the hot gases blasting out of the vent and being deflected toward my face. The more powder loaded into the barrel, the more blast that gets deflected.
It's hard for me to understand why some of the experienced flintlock shooters wouldn't usually wear safety glasses with any hot sparks, smoke and micro particles blasting out from the vent and right back into the lock to be deflected.
I'm also aware that the amount of horizontal blast coming out from the side of the vent area is something to be aware & careful about too, especially if other shooters or bystanders are in direct proximity of the vent while on the firing line.
I think that most caplock shooters are aware of the possibility that fragments could fly out from the nipple area and the need for eye protection.
I know that most times people don't get hurt from not wearing any eye protection, but since the possibility exists, it's still a routine practice for most BP shooters whether at the range or while hunting.
I guess re-enactors and competitors aren't encouraged to follow the practice of wearing safety glasses, whether they're of modern, prescription or have antique styling.
Some of the fella's didn't wear any hearing protection at the BP range either though, so I don't know what does or doesn't bother other people.
But since every type of BP gun and loadings present different hazards, I usually err on the side of caution and wear some kind of safety equipment.

 

[Macmac]

I agree it is a safer idea to wear hearing protection, albeit far to late to same me, and eye wear, but in primitive events we mostly don't.

We do use flash guards to we can volley fire in battle re-enactment that directs the blast at the vent up and or down, and possibly some what back at the shooter.

Still I find what happened to you odd, and like I siad I believe you. I still feel something went wrong, or someone pulled a nasty prank for kicks. I can't know that because you didn't really mention much about the guy who loaned the gun to you.

Another part of why I wonder is I happen to be left handed and all but 1 flinter I have are made for right handed people, so I am even closer than anyone right handed with a right handed gun.

The lock is literally in my face.

If that happened and I was responcible for that action I would be very upset it did happen. In fact I am upset it did happen because it reflects poorly on flint guns and those who use them.

Now I have suffered the same thing with a cap lock also not mine and the fool who handed it to me to try really over loaded that gun for a whim.

I don't know what the load was, but it blew the hammer back to half cock, and pieces of cap hit my face, and I was some wicket angery, I almost broke that gun in half. Looking back at times if that happened again, and I saw that same smirk I would break the gun in half, and call it even.

 

[hildo]

Flintlocks were transformed to caplock for a reason.
A flintlock will give you more work to function reliable.

I have an antique .69 M1777 (colonial version) and love to shoot it every now and then at the range. It is my favorite although she's far from perfect. This musket has a specially designed de-tuned lock for colonial troops. The gunsmiths that made it did good work since it still fires very unreliable and the lock is slow as well with the venthole kissing the bottom of the pan. Getting it 'perfect' is not obtainable without reworking the lock. That's not going to happen since it's an antique. it all adds to the flavour. Where's the fun in perfection?

If you want an easy maximum accuracy original style muzzleloader, take a caplock rifled musket and be done with. But the greatest pleasure, for me, is found in this smoothbore flintlock musket shot with 80 grains BP and plain paper patched roundballs... just like way back when in Napoleon's times.

I came across a needlefire Chassepot rifle onces. Still kick myself in the ... that I did'nt buy it. Maybe one day. Would be a great addition as well.

Hildo

 

[Misfire99]

If it's the end of the world as we know it I would bend over and KMAGB.

But if you are asking what gun I would use if I had to grab only one and run for the hills it would be a cap lock. Not because the flinters aren't as good but because the lock time on a cap lock is faster. I would have way less time to FUP before the thing went boom then with a flinter. I recently fired a flinter for the first time. It really showed me how much movement I had after firing. I have a lot of pain in my body and it really is affecting my shooting. So the faster the thing goes boom the better it is for me.

 

[StrawHat]

Not because the flinters aren't as good but because the lock time on a cap lock is faster.

That particular gun needs some work.

In a properly loaded flintlock, the ignition is instantaneous.

Pile on the priming and you create a fuse.

A properly set up flintlock will fire upside down. I have demonstrated this on many occasions for Boy Scouts and other groups

I am currently working on an underhammer flintlock. When done, it will fire as fast as any other flintlock, with the "advantage" of inline ignition. All flintlocks are inlines, they just don't look it.

 

[jrfoxx]

I voted flintlock, because I just think they are TONS of fun and, ina SHTF, I could find SOMETHING to cause a spark, I'd think, but getting caps may not aways be an option.
Also,

I prefer the Flintlock, it could be easily converted to a Matchlock if you run out of flint in situation X. However I don't own a Flintlock, but sounds like a good choice to me.

I had never thought of it, but thats VERY true, and a REALLY good observation and idea.You may have just caused me to buy a second fliter, so I can use it as a matchlock for fun.I'd buy a "real" matchlock, but the election is REALLY limited that Ive seen, and they tend to be pretty pricy compared to flint and percussion guns, whereas I could get a prett ydecent flinter kit for $150-$250, make or buy some match, and have a ball.