Which EOTech Holographic Sight

[Warp]

I find it hard to believe somebody did unbias online research comparing eotech and aimpoint and didn't come up with these issues.

A few examples, quickly found. There are many many many more, but I won't want to overrun this thread.

I'll leave it alone after these.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1433474&page=4

(at least two of the three quoted below, from that thread, are people who I would consider to be reliable sources)

EoTechs come in two flavors, much like Olympic rifles.

The ones which run forever (from experience, typically a 512 or 552) and the ones which are unreliable.

Problem is how many bad ones you go through to get a good one. On a large scale order, having 80 553's result in 50+ of them being replaced within 6 months is entirely within the norm for Eo's. I'll use one if it's issued (not an option anymore) but ***** mightily about it. I had one given to me for free.99 and as soon as I could, it was sold for a H-1.

2/3's of the Eotechs we have owned have crapped out within a couple of days of shooting. One after 5 or six shots. Aimpoints or Trijicon for RDS and Leupold for illuminated reticle scopes. I especially like the etched reticle VX-3 in 1.5-5 and 2-7. With a little practice in the Bindon aiming concept, 3-4x can be as fast as an RDS. I love my Trijicons, but they need to have the Tritium replaced every 7 or 8 years and that costs a couple hundred bucks. A couple hundred bucks buys a lot of batteries.

It's been a couple years, but in a former job I spent a lot of time in military warehouses across the US. I saw FAR more dead EO Techs sitting in the RTM and destroy containers than either Aimpoints of ACOGs. In fact, I think the only time I saw either of the latter two as a failed item was after they ate an IED or bullet.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=111470&highlight=eotech

I have an Eotech 512NV that has suddenly started burning through batteries, even when off.

Does Eotech take these back? Service? Suggestions?

Thanks
Jeff

Here is a supposed fix somebody came up with for one of the EOtech problems
http://www.kyledefoor.com/2009/12/mounting-tips-and-eotech-secret.html

I don't think that's right. Here are some pictures of an old EOTECH of mine that failed in the usual way with the "good" battery box.

I was at the range the other day and my 512 wouldn't turn on. I thought maybe the batteries were dead. When I got back home I put in new AA's but still no a no go. I noticed one of the contacts was blackened and one of the rubber bushings and spring in the battery box had come loose. I contacted EOTech's customer support on Tues and yesterday I received the repair kits in the mail for both issues at no cost. Installed this AM and now I'm back is business. Three cheers for EOTech's support team.

Known problem with those Eotech variants. Eotech is aware, and has gotten a lot of practice at dealing with the claims. If you continue to run the Eotech, check your zero often, keep spare batts around, and have a BUIS system.

I too, prefer the H1/T1 but the larger Aimpoint models aren't going anywhere and still sell out. Look at the popularity of the PRO.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=660746&highlight=eotech

I purchased one of these used and have had several problems:
- just a bear to get sighted in. Usually I'm close after 6 shots or so, but we were talking boxes here...
- once sighted in, if I don't shoot the rifle very regularly, the drift gets way off (always to the left). Elevation gets off a little, but not much. Drift may be off 8 or 10" at 100 yards.

I've got it on an AR15 and shoot standard 55gr ammo. I used the same ammo; even from the same case. The rifle shoots consistantly, just never in the same place 2 days in a row. I"m not after 1 or 2 MOA, but would at least like to keep it on the paper.

I'm thinking the reason I got a deal on it, was it was having problems. Has anyone had similar issues? Has anyone sent one back to Eotech to be serviced? If so, how did they do and what was the approximate cost?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=645239&highlight=eotech

My experience with EOTech 511's, of which I've had 4, has been less than stellar regarding battery life. I love everything else about the sight, but the battery life is a joke. I always turn off the power when I am done shooting, but no matter what, I find myself changing batteries (stupid, expensive "N"-batteries, no less) every 3 or 4 months, with only a couple of hours of use in between.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=632682&highlight=eotech

I've owned both and I've always been a big fan of the Eotech's reticle, but after many years I've come to realize that the buttons are slow to adjust, battery life is very poor (comparatively) and the reliability isn't as good (loss of nitrogen purge, delamination, loss of zero, mounts canted/breaking, batteries draining when turned off, battery contacts coming loose or compressing over time, etc).
Some users have zero problems while others have problems immediately or after months/years.
I find the Aimpoint Micros to have much less of that "looking through a tube" effect I get w/30mm Aimpoints and the switch to be faster/easier to adjust. Of course, the weight savings are nice as well.
Bottom line for me is that I'd take an H-1 over a 512 any day of the week and right now Palmetto State Armory has a killer H-1 deal w/QD mount for $449:

 

[gotigers]

Why stomp on a thread. He asked about Eotech.

I know a lot of LEOs that love Eotech. I agree that Aimpoint is better, because of battery life, for military.

 

[SpentCasing]

Warp, do you, yourself, have any experience shooting with an Aimpoint or Eotech? How much?

Ive always found shooting through the Aimpoint felt like I was looking through a toilet paper tube. I prefer the TV screen like window of the Eotech.

Anyone have any first hand reports of the XPS line failing more frequently than the Aimpoint?

 

[DAdams]

DAdams, btw, that's a nice rifle. Is that the Daniel Defense rail on there?

LaRue

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-EAG-14-5-BFH-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-LaRue-p/bcm-uh-eag1.htm

EAG Tactical based on a EAG Filthy Fourteen.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_138/196990_.html

 

[rcmodel]

Why stomp on a thread. He asked about Eotech.

My thought exactly.

Now we got a two page rant with "Red-X in a box" pictures about how good Aimpoint the OP didn't ask about is.

Maybe I'll do one on why a $25 buck Tasco from Wallyworld would be a better sight for the OP.

After all, he could buy 10 of them for the same price and just throw them in the trash when the batterys run down!

rc

 

[Warp]

Warp, do you, yourself, have any experience shooting with an Aimpoint or Eotech? How much?

Ive always found shooting through the Aimpoint felt like I was looking through a toilet paper tube. I prefer the TV screen like window of the Eotech.

Anyone have any first hand reports of the XPS line failing more frequently than the Aimpoint?

When I shoot through my Aimpoint PRO (not willing to pay the premium for a micro yet) I don't get any kind of tube effect. I keep both eyes open and look at the target with the red dot superimposed over the top of the target. That is the way RDS/Reflex sites were intended to be used, at least that's my understanding.

 

[SpentCasing]

When I shoot through my Aimpoint PRO (not willing to pay the premium for a micro yet) I don't get any kind of tube effect. I keep both eyes open and look at the target with the red dot superimposed over the top of the target. That is the way RDS/Reflex sites were intended to be used, at least that's my understanding.

Fair enough. Yes both eyes open and almost "painting" the dot over the target is correct. A T/H1 is pretty 'meh' IMO on an AR anyways. I had one from on my AK, which it worked great. If I had to go Aimpoint on an AR Id go PRO or Comp also.

 

[wojownik]

+1. The OP asked about Eotech - and a specific model at that.

$489 seems to be the going/discounted rate for the base model XPS2. The XPS3 adds night vision compatibility.

Then there's the "Extreme"-XPS3 (EXPS3) - this version gets you the higher base for co-witnessing, the quick release rail (which I have on my 512, and find it locks up really solidly).

Personally, I'm not sure I'd find the two dot option that useful, as all my targeting is well below 200 yards ... and I've heard that you might need a magnifier to really make use of the two dots (to tell them apart, said one user I know).

The EXPS2 is an unique Optics Planet model and is badged "OPMOD" - it is not night vision compatible. The EXPS3 is NV compatible. So, $489 for an EXPS2 (or and EXPS3 without NV) seems like an OK deal.

FWIW, they also came out with a "Zombie Stopper" version . Saw one at Cabelas.

 

[DAdams]

Thank you for the spirited debate, this is exactly what I was looking for. Well kind of not really since I am more interested in the EOTech.

I am surprised there wasn't more mention of weight between the two items.

Battery life rating on the 12 setting is 500-600 hours. That's 62 days at 8 hours per day. I buy 123 batteries 100 at a time since I have four flashlights that run on that form factor.

So far I agree, single dot 65moa ring. No quick release.
RC makes a good point on the 65 MOA 5 foot 7 at 100 yards.

I am going to go back and read the AR15 threads on the EOTechs, the XPS.

XPS2-0: EOTech Transverse Red Dot Sight, Black - 65 MOA Circle w/ 1 MOA Dot
XPS2-1: EOTech Transverse Red Dot Sight, Black - Single 1MOA Dot Reticle
Someone mentioned not liking the 65 MOA circle.

So with the $30 off and free shipping $459. For the Labor Day Sale.

 

[DAdams]

Maybe I'll do one on why a $25 buck Tasco from Wallyworld would be a better sight for the OP.

After all, he could buy 10 of them for the same price and just throw them in the trash when the batterys run down!

rc

What is the exact model? I like that thread idea.

And what about those Primary Arms BTW, someone on the AR Forum mentioned them??

 

[Warp]

The Primary Arms generally come out on top (or nearly so) when people ask for a more affordable/budget/Second Tier dot site.

 

[DAdams]

Not having the quick release base, and the standard mount, what is the sight picture going to look like? Any co-witness correlation at all?

 

[rcmodel]

I think it is the BXTTAWTB model.
(By 10 Throw Them Away When They Break)

But, I could be wrong?

I am right about buying the standard 65/1 MOA reticule EoTech if you want a real good Holographic sight.

Red-Dot tube optical sights like the Aimpoint are another different animal altogether.

rc

 

[DAdams]

Is there a difference in sight picture between the standard mount versus the quick release? I can't seem to find that data nor exact height differences.

 

[DAdams]

I have a new AR 10 to glass next so I think the 5.56 with EOTech would be a good quick handy CQ and up to 200 yard shooter that's the goal here. A niche AR, short to medium range rifle.

 

[X-Rap]

I have a new AR 10 to glass next so I think the 5.56 with EOTech would be a good quick handy CQ and up to 200 yard shooter that's the goal here. A niche AR, short to medium range rifle.
__________________

You have described the perfect niche for the EOTech and it fits there better than pretty much any sight I know given your parameters.
You can find sights that use less batterys, have better magnification, are more robust but they fail at the simple purposes you desire.

 

[Warp]

You have described the perfect niche for the EOTech and it fits there better than pretty much any sight I know given your parameters.
You can find sights that use less batterys, have better magnification, are more robust but they fail at the simple purposes you desire.

I'm confused. What would an Aimpoint fail at here?

 

[X-Rap]

To me there is no comparison of the EOTech and the Aimpoint tube at close range that one would find in a home defense (CQ situation) that the OP requires. Beyond that out to a couple hundred yards the smaller dot and ring are what I prefer. The batteries I can change with those in my smoke detectors.
The Aimpoint is a robust sight that will run a long time if you forget to turn it off but then again there are the Trijicon sights that don't take batteries and some have a little magnification. The Aimpoint does not have a niche for me. Sorry.

 

[Warp]

To me there is no comparison of the EOTech and the Aimpoint tube at close range that one would find in a home defense (CQ situation) that the OP requires. Beyond that out to a couple hundred yards the smaller dot and ring are what I prefer. The batteries I can change with those in my smoke detectors.
The Aimpoint is a robust sight that will run a long time if you forget to turn it off but then again there are the Trijicon sights that don't take batteries and some have a little magnification. The Aimpoint does not have a niche for me. Sorry.

Is there an illuminated optic trijicon site in the price range of an eotech or an Aimpoint PRO? BTW: They are reported to suffer from problems with an inability to really see the reticle (or the reticle is black/dark) when shooting into shade on a bright day or from a dark/shadowed position into bright light. The powered dot sites like eotech/aimpoint/etc do not have this problem.

A 2MOA red dot (as found in many aimpoints) is not a hinderence to shooting out to 200 yards (the niche your eotech fills)

BTW: People don't forget to turn their aimpoints off so much as they choose not to turn them off because there is no need to. That way if and when you pick the rifle up to use it the dot is just there, 24/7/365.

 

[X-Rap]

It's obvious we are Fan Boys of a different color, to each his own and may we both be right (or at least right enough) if that moment of truth ever comes to pass.
Of course some say it's better to be luck than right, ( or was that good) I'll take lucky any day.

 

[Girodin]

I would also recommend an aimpoint over any of the eotechs.

This is a promo video for the DD rifle but the aimpoint impresses me much more.

I also find it a little unbelievable that someone did any ammount of research on eotechs without coming across some of the issues they're known to have.

To me there is no comparison of the EOTech and the Aimpoint tube at close range that one would find in a home defense (CQ situation) that the OP requires.

How much CQB experience do you have? I see the following guys running aimpoints: Larry Vickers, Travis Haley (his S12s have RMRs but most of his rifles I've seen have aimpoints), Costa, Pat Rogers, etc. These guys have some experience both in CQB situations and have been a party to putting millions of rounds down range.

The secrete service, and many other organizations who deal primarily in close range encounters use aimpoints.

I have used both and I like the recticle on the eotechs, however, my current go to rifle wears a T1. When one looks at cost, durability, reliability, battery life, etc, the aimpoint becomes an easy choice IMHO. The aimpoint PRO has made that even more true.

 

[boricua9mm]

The "huge circle" is actually a quick & dirty combat use range finder.

65MOA = 5' 7" at 100 yards.
Or about the height of an average standing solder.

So, framing a solder in the circle is 100 yards, circle to dot (half circle) is 200 yards, etc.

rc

Again, for my application (used on a 14.5 or 16" carbine with no magnifier using a 50 yard zero), the circle was useless. The difference in bullet drop between 100 and 200 yards being negligible, and the ability to resolve/discern the differences between 200-500 yards with the range finding "feature" didn't work nearly as well ("wait, is that size relationship showing 300 yards or 400?") as it does on an optic like the ACOG, which winds up being much between suited to the 300+ yard shooting.

Beyond extremely close contact distances, the huge circle offered me no real benefits, but for me the two dots read as a single line when viewed quickly, and this was helpful in speeding me up. Others may feel differently, and that's fine; I'm just reporting my actual experiences with the XPS2-2.

 

[gotigers]

My XPS2-0 has never failed me. I left it on for 3 months before the battery died. As a civie that is more than enough. In 3 years, i've only had to replace the battery twice, if i turn it off when I am done with it. I have no need to leave it on. It takes less than a second to turn it on.

I don't have a QD for it. I leave it on. My MBUS BUIS flips up and are perfect cowitness, so i dont have a reason to remove it. It is easy to remove without QD. I did remove it once. I forgot why. When i put it back on, it was still on paper. Just a couple of small adjustments and it was back at zero.

I prefer the sight window of an eotech.

Eotechs are great of 3 gun if your matches are within 100 yards. Very fast target acquisition. I can make 400 yard shots on 18" steel with it, but i prefer my Nikon 1-4x for that distance in 3 gun.

 

[benEzra]

Eotech model numbers can be a little confusing. Here is the general breakdown, though (from this post):

Eotechs come in two basic flavors: (1) those that are set up for a lower-1/3 cowitness right out of the box, and (2) those that are set up for an absolute cowitness out of the box and need an aftermarket 7mm riser to do a lower-1/3. Within each of those two categories, some models have the capability to go ultra-dim for use with night vision equipment, and some don't (with NV capability jacking up the price quite a bit).

The following models are set up for a lower-1/3 cowitness out of the box, thanks to a built-in 7mm riser: Eotech 516, 517, 553, 556, 557. As far as I know, all other models (including 512, XPS series, etc.) are set up for absolute cowitness, so if you want a lower 1/3 cowitness you'll need a 7mm riser, like a LaRue QD mount.

Battery requirements are as follows:

• 516: two CR123, 1000hr runtime at brightness 12 (longer at lower settings)
• 517: two AA, 600hr runtime at brightness 12 with alkaline, 1000hr with lithium
• 553 (similar to 516 but with NV setting and QD base): two CR123, 1100 hours runtime at brightness 12
• 556 (similar to 516 but with NV setting): two CR123, 1100 hours runtime at brightness 12
• 557 (similar to 517 but with NV setting and multi-dot reticle): two AA, 600hr runtime at brightness 12 with alkaline, 1000hr with lithium

I prefer CR123 because they are physically shorter and allow me to run the same battery type in my optic and light. They don't cost any more than AA lithiums and are available at my local Walmart just like AA, so I don't really see much logistics advantage in using AA's.

The XPS series all run off a single CR123 battery and are set up for absolute cowitness (they need a 7mm riser to do a lower 1/3). The designations are as follows:

• XPS2-0 single dot in circle (traditional Eotech reticle), no NV setting
• XPS2-1 single dot only (no circle), no NV setting
• XPS2-2 two dots in circle, no NV setting
• XPS3-0 single dot in circle (traditional Eotech reticle), NV setting
• XPS3-1 single dot only (no circle), NV setting
• XPS3-2 two dots in circle, NV setting

Aimpoint model designations are a bit easier to understand. Basically, the CompM series has rubber armor and night vision settings, the CompC series does not but is considerably cheaper, and the Micro is a scaled-down model for light weight and small size (Micro T-1 has NV capability, Micro H-1 does not). You can get various models with 2 MOA, 3 MOA, and 4 MOA dots (I prefer as small as possible). All Aimpoints will need a riser to mount properly; LaRue Tactical makes some of the best Aimpoint mounts, but there are other players in the market as well.

I shoot a single-dot-and-circle Eotech 516 (2x CR123, lower-1/3 cowitness without a riser), which is $90 to $150 cheaper than the multi-dot but otherwise similar model 557.

 

[DAdams]

After spending a few more hours researching various threads on the AR15 Forum where there are hundreds if not a thousand users of these two brands (EoTech and Aim Point) the main detraction regarding the EoTech seems to be not the optics, since that's subjective (not quality issues), battery life, because that is what it is, the user needs live with it or not.

It seems that commencing in 2010 when the issues with the 500 series until the XPS came out there were many 500 units that had issues due to battery orientation and recoil affect and subsequent electronics failures. That seems to have passed with the transverse design. Is that a safe assumption? I couldn't find and failure issues with the new design, just the age old AP vs EoTech standard stuff.