natedog
Member
Do any owners (or former owners) of Class III firearms and accessories (suppressors) regard their purchases to be a waste of time and money (compared to just buying a semi-auto), or simply not worth all the time and paperwork?
Who considers their Class III to be a waste of money?
- Thread starter natedog
- Start date
- Status
natedog
Member
Right, does anyone have a response that pertains to the topic, instead of nitpicking my grammar? 
Kenneth Lew
Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2003
- Messages
- 534
Neither a waste of time nor money,
1. Paperwook takes me less than 5 minutes to fill out and print in adobe acrobat courtesy of Danbrew's Website .
2. My last 2 Form 4 "pending" times took less than 30 days to approve.
3. Every year, more people turn 21 and find out they can own NFA items, creating a greater demand for machine guns (do not consider machine guns as investments).
Kenneth Lew
1. Paperwook takes me less than 5 minutes to fill out and print in adobe acrobat courtesy of Danbrew's Website .
2. My last 2 Form 4 "pending" times took less than 30 days to approve.
3. Every year, more people turn 21 and find out they can own NFA items, creating a greater demand for machine guns (do not consider machine guns as investments).
Kenneth Lew
Devonai
Member
Well, my buddy has owned a Vector UZI for years and he loves it. So do his buddies.
chas_martel
Member
Waste of time?
Hmmm, typical wait has been about 90 days or so. I never thought of it as a waste. I mean, I still got up every morning and went to work, played with my kids mowed the grass etc etc etc............
Perhaps you might consider the 5 mins or so it took to fill out the Form 4 a waste but hey, it was only 5 mins.
Paper work?
Hmm, only one piece of paper. Not much more than a 4473. Oh yeah, had to xerox articles of incorporation.
Waste of money?
Well, sure I buy more ammo, but hey, it is fun.
I'm not sure what you getting at. Relative to other hobbies it is not too wasteful of time and money. Ever try German cars for a hobby? Talk about time, money and effort! And their retained value is no where near as good at title 2 stuff. Unless your talking vintage specimens but that is a whole 'nother ball game as far as money is concerned.
Just my two cents worth, your milage might vary.......
Hmmm, typical wait has been about 90 days or so. I never thought of it as a waste. I mean, I still got up every morning and went to work, played with my kids mowed the grass etc etc etc............
Perhaps you might consider the 5 mins or so it took to fill out the Form 4 a waste but hey, it was only 5 mins.
Paper work?
Hmm, only one piece of paper. Not much more than a 4473. Oh yeah, had to xerox articles of incorporation.
Waste of money?
Well, sure I buy more ammo, but hey, it is fun.
I'm not sure what you getting at. Relative to other hobbies it is not too wasteful of time and money. Ever try German cars for a hobby? Talk about time, money and effort! And their retained value is no where near as good at title 2 stuff. Unless your talking vintage specimens but that is a whole 'nother ball game as far as money is concerned.
Just my two cents worth, your milage might vary.......
Kenneth Lew
Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2003
- Messages
- 534
Forgot to mention, I did waste 35,000 rds. last year.
Yeah. I consider my machine gun to be a waste of money. Time ? It took a lot longer than five minutes for me. I had to buy the weapon. I had to do the paperwork, I had to go get photos taken, I had to get fingerprinted, I had to get the CLEO signoff which took three trips before he spared the time. I had to wait about three months for the tax stamp. But, I am not all that short of time so I don't care about that.
I would say that it is moderately fun to shoot. A novelty. Something I could easily do without. But, I would have just blown the money on something else anyway.
I have no practical use for it. I was shooting it the other day. I very seldom shoot it. Maybe a couple times a year, and as a result I am not very good with it. It is a 9mm subgun and I honestly believe I can put accurate aimed fire on the target pretty much as fast with a handgun. I certainly would rather have a semi-auto AR15 if it came down to actually using it for it's designed purpose.
Would I buy another one ? Only if that Lotto ticket comes in for me and I have stupid money to spend. Suppressors are another story. If I had the money I would have a lot more of them. Definiltey worth the money and time to me.
One disclaimer here: If I had the money or foresight to buy really good full auto weapons I would probably get more of a kick out of it.
I would say that it is moderately fun to shoot. A novelty. Something I could easily do without. But, I would have just blown the money on something else anyway.
I have no practical use for it. I was shooting it the other day. I very seldom shoot it. Maybe a couple times a year, and as a result I am not very good with it. It is a 9mm subgun and I honestly believe I can put accurate aimed fire on the target pretty much as fast with a handgun. I certainly would rather have a semi-auto AR15 if it came down to actually using it for it's designed purpose.
Would I buy another one ? Only if that Lotto ticket comes in for me and I have stupid money to spend. Suppressors are another story. If I had the money I would have a lot more of them. Definiltey worth the money and time to me.
One disclaimer here: If I had the money or foresight to buy really good full auto weapons I would probably get more of a kick out of it.
One would assume that by the time one gets to HS, as you now are, one would know the difference between "there," "their," and "they're."
Having enough money to "waste" on class III might be a moot point for those who don't. We're not talking about spelling "anitdisestablishmentarianism" here.
revlar
Member
Absolutely not. There are few things in this world that relieve the stress quite as well as squeezing off a sustained burst of full-auto fire.
Having converted mine in the pre-ban days, the cost of the gun and parts was quite reasonable.
I can't say I would pay the price for a transferable MG these days though - they're a little out of my league.
Oh - and I believe the prefix should be "anti", not "anit".
I suppose anyone can make a mistake.
Having converted mine in the pre-ban days, the cost of the gun and parts was quite reasonable.
I can't say I would pay the price for a transferable MG these days though - they're a little out of my league.
Oh - and I believe the prefix should be "anti", not "anit".
I suppose anyone can make a mistake.
The Tourist
member
My friend is a Class III collector and an FFL dealer. I went out with him on one occassion to test fire some imported foreign 9mm ammo he was thinking of importing as cheap fodder for his clients. We had a blast one afternoon with his H&K MP5.
One of his heavy storage safes is on one of my properties because it has a thick cement floor. He has stopped by ONCE in almost four years to retrieve items stored there. Because it is on my property, he has given me a thick notebook full of Xerox copies of all necessary documents for when the BATF does inspections.
He has paid a lot for these items, plus the magazines, and while I reload, he needs to purchase cases of cheap ammo. When he is in my area, we only have one area, a private gravel pit, which permits full auto fire in my entire county.
On business, he sometimes resides in another state, and it's a state that makes ownership all but impossible, hence renting space from me.
Based on the storage problems, the documentation, the BATF regulation, the cost, the ammo cost, the limited areas of use and finite times of enjoyment, I consider it a tremendous loss for him.
My wife now wants the storage area, and admits that the whole issue has made her uncomfortable despite the fact I have a well appointed gunroom in our home. He'll now have to hire a moving company to transport this safe to another city. I told him to just dump the stuff.
I ascertain that within the year, he will have sold off the collection to his A-list clients, and knowing him, he will never miss them.
One of his heavy storage safes is on one of my properties because it has a thick cement floor. He has stopped by ONCE in almost four years to retrieve items stored there. Because it is on my property, he has given me a thick notebook full of Xerox copies of all necessary documents for when the BATF does inspections.
He has paid a lot for these items, plus the magazines, and while I reload, he needs to purchase cases of cheap ammo. When he is in my area, we only have one area, a private gravel pit, which permits full auto fire in my entire county.
On business, he sometimes resides in another state, and it's a state that makes ownership all but impossible, hence renting space from me.
Based on the storage problems, the documentation, the BATF regulation, the cost, the ammo cost, the limited areas of use and finite times of enjoyment, I consider it a tremendous loss for him.
My wife now wants the storage area, and admits that the whole issue has made her uncomfortable despite the fact I have a well appointed gunroom in our home. He'll now have to hire a moving company to transport this safe to another city. I told him to just dump the stuff.
I ascertain that within the year, he will have sold off the collection to his A-list clients, and knowing him, he will never miss them.
Hkmp5sd
Member
A waste of money?
Every machinegun I have purchased has gone up in value. I paid $2000 for my Colt M16A1. Look at what they are going for now. Care to guestimate how much my MP5SD has went up? However, even if it dropped in value to $5, it's still worth it to me. I love shooting machineguns.
Every machinegun I have purchased has gone up in value. I paid $2000 for my Colt M16A1. Look at what they are going for now. Care to guestimate how much my MP5SD has went up? However, even if it dropped in value to $5, it's still worth it to me. I love shooting machineguns.
Lennyjoe
Member
For me, YES.
Cause I cant afford to buy one of them machine guns on enlisted pay.
Cause I cant afford to buy one of them machine guns on enlisted pay.
BluesBear
member
Since I had to divest myself of my Title II toys before I moved to Washington (that's just about the only thing I dislike about this state) I made about a 700% increase on my investment.
I do miss owning them and I sure as heck miss the fun of shooting them.
Even at today's inflated prices I consider them worth the money and effort to aquire.
It's antidisestablishmentarianism. That's a-n-t-i-d, NOT a-n-i-t-d.
But you were close.
Now if you meant to spell pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, they you were wayyyyyy off.
I do miss owning them and I sure as heck miss the fun of shooting them.
Even at today's inflated prices I consider them worth the money and effort to aquire.
Good thing. Because if we were we'd spell it correctly.
It's antidisestablishmentarianism. That's a-n-t-i-d, NOT a-n-i-t-d.
But you were close.
Now if you meant to spell pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, they you were wayyyyyy off.
Newbie here.
If you have followed the prices of Class IIIs just over the last year they are a sound investment if that is your purpose for owning one.
In many situations, some fast ground fire is essential.
IMO, the versatility of the M-16/AR-15 platform is well worth the money to purchase a registered 'sear' at the very least. In addition to running the .223, you have the ability to run .22, 9mm, 6.8 Rem, and the .50 Beo; all in FA.
If you have followed the prices of Class IIIs just over the last year they are a sound investment if that is your purpose for owning one.
In many situations, some fast ground fire is essential.
IMO, the versatility of the M-16/AR-15 platform is well worth the money to purchase a registered 'sear' at the very least. In addition to running the .223, you have the ability to run .22, 9mm, 6.8 Rem, and the .50 Beo; all in FA.
Mark Tyson
Member
A full auto .50 Beowulf? Yowza! I don't think I'd buy a machine gun unless I could get a modern one. We'll see how things work out in the 9th circuit...
Anyway, everyone's been talking about machine guns but what about silencers and short barrels?
A silencer sounds like fun, and a good way to break in new shooters. Not to mention it looks satisfyingly evil.
I was thinking about getting a short barrel shotgun for home defense, because a full length shotgun seems so unwieldly to manauver around the house, and because my handgun skills are not up to par. But are they worth it?
By the way, what's a Class I or Class II license if there are such things?
http://bynight.darkalliance.org/gramnazi/grammar.gif
Anyway, everyone's been talking about machine guns but what about silencers and short barrels?
A silencer sounds like fun, and a good way to break in new shooters. Not to mention it looks satisfyingly evil.
I was thinking about getting a short barrel shotgun for home defense, because a full length shotgun seems so unwieldly to manauver around the house, and because my handgun skills are not up to par. But are they worth it?
By the way, what's a Class I or Class II license if there are such things?
http://bynight.darkalliance.org/gramnazi/grammar.gif
B
boofus
Guest
My suppressor for the H&K MK23 and USP Tactical will probably sell at a loss if I ever decide to get rid of it. Since it's on a Form 4 now it will have an extra $200 transfer tax attached to it and I shoot it so it won't be brand new either.
I don't ever see selling it though. It makes the Mark 23 a completely different beast. It totally eliminates the flash, cuts the noise down to bearable levels (just a *POOOOooof* with earmuffs on) and makes the recoil like a .22. If I ever have to convert an anti, this would be my gun of choice to do it with. Sure it looks mean and is big and unwieldy but it fires as gentle as a feather.
I don't ever see selling it though. It makes the Mark 23 a completely different beast. It totally eliminates the flash, cuts the noise down to bearable levels (just a *POOOOooof* with earmuffs on) and makes the recoil like a .22. If I ever have to convert an anti, this would be my gun of choice to do it with. Sure it looks mean and is big and unwieldy but it fires as gentle as a feather.
Hkmp5sd
Member
These are still relatively cheap, especially compared to the $5,000+ for a basic bullet hose. The only real drawback is they cost about as much to register as they do to make. Obviously, they aren't going to increase much in value, unless the .gov bans them. There are a lot of quality suppressors being manufactured these days, which provides a little competition on the market.
Of course in Finland, they are dirt cheap and easy to buy.
We can only dream.ctdonath
Member
Have an M590 AOW. Got it mostly just for the exercise of going thru the process, plus a dollup of "nifty value". Only $5 tax. Run a couple dozen rounds thru it 1-2 times a year. Best use is vaporizing pumpkins.
Don't regret a thing (maybe having only 3 $digits invested helps that). Haven't checked increase in value; seems M590 with Marinecote is now unavailable, so maybe the value is increasing.
Would DEFINITELY get a suppressor if/when legal (not in NY). Following an auditory accident, I'm surprised they're not required. Ironinc thing about the $200 tax is, while eliminating most super-cheap ones, induced development of much more efficient and effective noise reduction in handier packages (Gem-Tek, etc.).
Don't regret a thing (maybe having only 3 $digits invested helps that). Haven't checked increase in value; seems M590 with Marinecote is now unavailable, so maybe the value is increasing.
Would DEFINITELY get a suppressor if/when legal (not in NY). Following an auditory accident, I'm surprised they're not required. Ironinc thing about the $200 tax is, while eliminating most super-cheap ones, induced development of much more efficient and effective noise reduction in handier packages (Gem-Tek, etc.).
AK103K
member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
- Messages
- 7,610
If you got into them back before the ban, then you've made out very well indeed, and this also goes for a few semi auto guns of the right persuasion. I tried to get my company to give up my pension money back in the 80's for just that reason, and I'd be sitting pretty now if they had. (I paid $800 for my MP5 and $450 for HK94's at that time, hell, my lowly M11/9mm was $225) Then again, all that investment value can go away at the stroke of a pen. Hey, good investment or not, they are a lot of fun.
As for being an ammo waste and not being able to make good hits with them, either you never were taught to properly shoot them, or have no actual hands on experience with them. With just a few basic lessons, even a novice can make good hits with no trouble. Just because you can waste a whole mag in one trigger pull, doesnt mean thats the way you have to shoot it. They do have a place in the scheme of things, but its up to you to know how and when to properly use them. I will admit though, it sure is fun to dump a whole mag in one pull of the trigger. But its even more fun to do it and keep the whole 30 rounds in the center of a IPSC target at 10 yards when the person next to me says its not possible.
As for being an ammo waste and not being able to make good hits with them, either you never were taught to properly shoot them, or have no actual hands on experience with them. With just a few basic lessons, even a novice can make good hits with no trouble. Just because you can waste a whole mag in one trigger pull, doesnt mean thats the way you have to shoot it. They do have a place in the scheme of things, but its up to you to know how and when to properly use them. I will admit though, it sure is fun to dump a whole mag in one pull of the trigger. But its even more fun to do it and keep the whole 30 rounds in the center of a IPSC target at 10 yards when the person next to me says its not possible.
CleverNickname
Member
Class I SOT is an importer, Class 2 SOT is a manufacturer, Class 3 SOT is just a dealer. The first two can also deal in addition to import and manufacture title II firearms.
As to the original question, no I don't consider my Uzi a waste of money. However, there is a point at where another machinegun would be. I would really like an M16, but I can't justify the ~$9k minimum it would take to get one. But title II just doesn't mean machineguns. Suppressors probably have the most practical use, and are well worth the $200 tax, IMO.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
