Who Doesn’t Bell & Crimp 45ACP or 9mm?

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CQB45ACP

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Messages
5,459
Location
Northern Virginia at the Beltway
On a thread on another topic the above subject came up and I was curious how common it was to not bell & crimp.

Since I only load 45ACP & 9mm that’s all I’m interested in but since when has a thread stayed on topic?

Anyway, that’s my question and any tips are appreciated.
 
With a straight wall auto cartridge you only remove the flaring/bell. You want to use the min required. That said if your loading lead or plated you have to to keep from scraping the jacket. Since these headspace on the mouth, you only remove any excess you used to help start the bullet, taper crimp. At times if the bullet has a rounded base you can get away without expanding if you debur the case mouth.

With that said if your having neck tension it's something you can try to get it back. Not expanding leaves the mouth 0.005"+ smaller than needed. Crimp will in most all cases lessen neck tension due to different spring back. The reason you only want to remove excess, returning the outside back to it's original size. Some times you need a little more to make the round feed properly.

I do expand and TC my 45 acp and 9mm. I shoot 99% LSWC in 45acp. and jacketed in 9mm. Now the 357 sig I do not expand/bell to seat the bullet or crimp. This round has <1/2 the area to hold the bullet. I also use a compressed load to prevent bullet setback.
 
Last edited:
I never bell the cases anymore. I don't crimp either. Loading and shooting goes just fine.
If I were using cast lead bullets, sure... I'd do these steps as it would scrape the lead, but with jacketed and even plated bullets, I don't. Never an issue.

It saves me time, and also increases case life, as constantly belling and crimping the edge of the case has to work harden the brass and make them more likely to crack.

This being said, I DO deburr the cases and of course use the neck expander. I actually experimented with not even using the neck expander, but there was a huge variance in neck tension... especially with my mixed brass range ammo. But, it all shot just fine... at least for offhand steel pistol shooting. lol

I get good results. The 300 Blackout test loads with Berrys plated bullets not too long ago shot in the same hole at 33 yards. At 50 yards, the IMR 4227 and VV N120 loads were all around an inch or so... and that was with 220 grain plated bullets.

I don't have a progressive press. Plus, doing the bell mouthing and crimping is a PITA with mixed range brass, as it's not all going to be the same length, so the belling and crimping will not be consistent. Belling and crimping actually hinder accuracy in that regard... in addition to being a lot more work. I find it to be 100% unnecessary.

Last 44 Mag I did were cast bullets. I did bell and crimp those. The last 50 AE I did, I also belled and crimped. What a PITA... lol Next time I load 44 Mag and 50 AE belling/crimping will not be part of the procedure, and will be done with jacketed bullets. I don't foresee any issues, but will report back if I do.

I never bell/crimp rifle cartridges, as I don't shoot cast bullets in any of those. No issues. Only time to do that, would possibly be with 30-30, or something that gets loaded in a tubular magazine.

Maybe others can share their experiences... as long as they aren't too embarrassed to admit it. lol
 
CQB45ACP said:
On a thread on another topic the above subject came up and I was curious how common it was to not bell & crimp.

Since I only load 45ACP & 9mm that’s all I’m interested ... my question and any tips are appreciated.
Click to expand...
I always flared case mouth and returned flare back flat on bullet by adding .022" to the diameter of bullet as most case wall thickness at case mouth runs around .011" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10712225

But since some members posted they could seat bullets without flaring, I got curious and did my own testing with various 9mm/40S&W/45ACP bullets. I found while you can indeed seat without flaring particularly with plated/JHP/FMJ bullets, tilting of bullet can be a problem with certain bullets bulging one side of the case neck.
  • Plated bullets with rounded base will seat without flaring of case mouth
  • JHP bullets with rounded base will seat without flaring of case mouth
  • FMJ bullets with sharp base rim can tilt and result in elongated case neck (Note Winchester FMJ in the middle with sharp base rim compared to other bullets with rounder base rim ... Zero, RMR, Winchester, Everglades dished, Federal hollow base)
index.php


Personally, I still prefer to flare the case mouth just enough so I could set the bullet base and have bullet sitting straight up before entering the die mouth. I think this produces more even bulging of case neck and minimize tilting of bullet during seating.
 
LiveLife said:
tilting of bullet can be a problem with certain bullets bulging one side of the case neck.
Click to expand...
With some bullets - Federal EFMJ and Remington 124gr. GS, both in 9mm - I get "Coke-bottle" shapes when I don't use the powder-through expander die set deeply enough or skip it entirely and just flare the mouth. The Golden Saber has an odd "driving band" at the base and the Federal EFMJ has a rim where the hollow cavity sits. Other than those two, just a little expansion goes a long way with 9mm and .45ACP.
 
All my brass is stored primed and lightly flared as I load mostly cast and coated on a single stage. When it’s time to load I add powder, set a bullet in the case mouth and seat. That’s it and I have been doing it like this for years and thousands of rounds. This is specifically for 9mm as I do crimp 38 & 357 and those are the only pistol calibers I currently load for.

This works in 5 different 9’s and I get about 1/1000 that won’t chamber and it’s usually a bullet depth issue.
 
Wow! He knew it was a thing?

Thanks for all the substantive responses!

I’m going to try it tomorrow AM first w/45ACP and I’ll plunk test and gauge test and push each loaded round against my bench just for fun. I only shoot auto loaders so we’ll see how she goes. Then sometime later I’ll try it with 9mm.
 
LiveLife said:
I always flared case mouth and returned flare back flat on bullet by adding .022" to the diameter of bullet as most case wall thickness at case mouth runs around .011" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10712225

But since some members posted they could seat bullets without flaring, I got curious and did my own testing with various 9mm/40S&W/45ACP bullets. I found while you can indeed seat without flaring particularly with plated/JHP/FMJ bullets, tilting of bullet can be a problem with certain bullets bulging one side of the case neck.
  • Plated bullets with rounded base will seat without flaring of case mouth
  • JHP bullets with rounded base will seat without flaring of case mouth
  • FMJ bullets with sharp base rim can tilt and result in elongated case neck (Note Winchester FMJ in the middle with sharp base rim compared to other bullets with rounder base rim ... Zero, RMR, Winchester, Everglades dished, Federal hollow base)
index.php


Personally, I still prefer to flare the case mouth just enough so I could set the bullet base and have bullet sitting straight up before entering the die mouth. I think this produces more even bulging of case neck and minimize tilting of bullet during seating.
Click to expand...
I like being able to set the bullet straight too…only takes the slightest flare to do so.
 
Blue68f100 said:
With a straight wall auto cartridge you only remove the flaring/bell. You want to use the min required. That said if your loading lead or plated you have to to keep from scraping the jacket. Since these headspace on the mouth, you only remove any excess you used to help start the bullet, taper crimp. At times if the bullet has a rounded base you can get away without expanding if you debur the case mouth.

With that said if your having neck tension it's something you can try to get it back. Not expanding leaves the mouth 0.005"+ smaller than needed. Crimp will in most all cases lessen neck tension due to different spring back. The reason you only want to remove excess, returning the outside back to it's original size. Some times you need a little more to make the round feed properly.

I do expand and TC my 45 acp and 9mm. I shoot 99% LSWC in 45acp. and jacketed in 9mm. Now the 357 sig I do not expand/bell to seat the bullet or crimp. This round has <1/2 the area to hold the bullet. I also use a compressed load to prevent bullet setback.
Click to expand...
I only shoot at indoor ranges so LSWC is a nonstarter for me, but it would be my choice otherwise.
 
CQB45ACP said:
“Tight” sizing die? Splain that one to me Lucy.
Click to expand...
I had an RCBS .45 ACP sizer that was too loose (ID too large), so RCBS sent me a new one, which was tighter than Dick's hatband and gave everything a wasp waist. I bought a Redding and it was perfect, but the carbide ring came out. I put it back in and it did it again, so Redding gave me a new sizer, which scrapped/gouged the cases, then they told me I didn't know how to use a sizer, so I bought a Lyman and it is nearly perfect.

If you don't have neck tension, the sizer is too large or the expander is too large, or both. Size a case, don't use the expander, and seat a bullet, if you have neck tension the expander is too large, if you don't the sizer is too large, replace as needed.
 
For some reason there are a few who don't consider a "Taper Crimp" a crimp ...
well ... when it comes to loading the 45 acp and 9mm Luger ... I bell the mouth to get the bullet started and Taper Crimp the round after seating the bullet ... and that's been working just fine for over 50 years .
Call it whatever you want ... that's how I do it and will continue doing it .
I don't need no new way of walking .
Gary
 
LiveLife said:
But since some members posted they could seat bullets without flaring, I got curious and did my own testing with various 9mm/40S&W/45ACP bullets. I found while you can indeed seat without flaring particularly with plated/JHP/FMJ bullets, tilting of bullet can be a problem with certain bullets bulging one side of the case neck.
  • Plated bullets with rounded base will seat without flaring of case mouth
  • JHP bullets with rounded base will seat without flaring of case mouth
  • FMJ bullets with sharp base rim can tilt and result in elongated case neck (Note Winchester FMJ in the middle with sharp base rim compared to other bullets with rounder base rim ... Zero, RMR, Winchester, Everglades dished, Federal hollow base)
Click to expand...
The bullets I've been using are rounded at the base, so they work fine without a bellmouth and crimp.
I've done a couple thousand that way. No issues. I can see it being an issue if the bullet has sharp, square sides and wants to crush the case.

I'm not loading benchrest ammo where every charge is weighed and dial indicated... looking for that last 0.01 minute of angle accuracy. These are offhand pistol loads and 300 Blackout for the most part up this point.

These are the targets with the 300 Blackout testing. 33 and 50 yards. The 4227 and VV N120 are the loads that worked the best, and they were one holers at 33 yards. At 50 around an inch. Bullets are Berrys 220 grain plated. The VV N120 had a flyer at 50 yards. Load was light, at under 1000 fps. One bullet didn't stabilize and went into the target crooked. Fixed that with the next batch.

Offhand with a 9mm pistol at 17 yards, I can make almost all head shots (4" square) on a steel silhouette. I'm no pro, but the ammo shoots well. This is with RMR 147 grain FMJ.

I've had good luck with it... and save a ton of time/aggravation not having to bellmouth and crimp the cases... as I don't have a progressive. I've done a couple thousand without issue.
Your mileage may vary. :)

index.php


index.php


index.php
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

G
  • Locked
First reload bell crimp and OAL questions
Replies
20
Views
792
forrest r
F
J
  • Locked
Correct bell and crimp
Replies
8
Views
2K
johnandersonoutdoors
J
J
  • Locked
Lee Factory Crimp Dies
Replies
15
Views
1K
HOWARD J
H
CTMC
  • Locked
Crimp Sleeve Lee 45ACP FCD
Replies
5
Views
215
Walkalong
Walkalong
T
  • Locked
9mm, Something Unique or Old News/SOP
Replies
17
Views
853
Dudedog
Dudedog
Back
Top