Who Else Has Finally Figured Out That Sub-Compacts Are a CCW Handicap?

[toivo]

I pocket-carry almost exclusively. My pocket pistols are KelTec P32, Beretta Pico, and SIG P238. The first two are lighter and slimmer, but they don't shoot nearly as well as the P238. It fits my hand really well and feels almost like a mid-size pistol to me, despite fitting easily into a front pants pocket.

For pocket carry, you need to consider not only whether the pistol will fit in your pocket, but also whether you'll be able to draw it easily. I can fit a Glock 42 in my front pocket, but it takes some finagling to get it out again. No pocket carry for that one.

 

[InTheSwamp]

I've found the 43X and the Shield Plus to be the right size, fit for my hands and body shape, so that's what I usually carry.

 

[Tallball]

My friend is 6'4" and has fairly large hands. He has been carrying a G43 for a few years and never liked it a lot. He finally got a Shield EZ the other day to replace it and is very happy. The G43 was really too small for him. Two of his tall daughters like the EZ better, so he bought them each one, too. His smaller wife, with her smaller hands, still prefers the G43.

I'm 6'6" and have larger hands than my friend. I usually carry j-frames and shoot them well, probably because I've been doing so for about 35 years. I don't shoot an LCP extremely well, but good enough for SD and will carry one in certain circumstances.

I shoot larger pistols better, but I don't always draw them faster. When I reach for a carry piece, one of my questions is always, "How fast can I get to it?" My LCP in the breast pocket of a coat can be drawn in moments regardless of whether I'm sitting, standing, crouching, etc. Digging a 1911 out from under my coat instead would be much slower. I'll take the LCP under those circumstances.

 

[Rexster]

Wow, first time I've heard of a pistol actually causing pain and swelling. I guess your hands were telling you, in no uncertain terms, that you are not a G19 guy.

In a more subtle way, the same thing happened with S&W J-Frames, as early as 2002, and then with several other handguns. The thing about the G19 was how quickly they went from from comfortable, and like-able, to physically intolerable. My first Gen4 Glock was a G19, in 2013/2014, at which time I really liked it. Gen4 was the first generation that fit my hand really well. I soon followed-up with a second G19. At the time, I had to carry one of several .40 pistols while on patrol duty, but would be able to qual with, and carry a G19, if I could be a plain-clothed investigator. (.40 was becoming a bit much, by then.) Before I could get into an investigative position, the chief OK’ed 9mm for patrol, in September 2015, at which time I bought a Gen4 G17, which I could shoot notably better than a G19, so, I mostly carried the G17, on and off the clock, though I still qual’ed with the pair of G19 pistols, and would carry one of them, occasionally, until 2017, when the pain/swelling started. (Gettin’ old ain’t fun, but, I reckon it beats the alternative.)

It has been worth it to keep some “baby” Glocks as lefty pistols.

I may have “enjoyed” a few too many rounds of .44 and then .41 Magnums, in the Eighties. It did not help that N-Frames were/are too big for me to reach the trigger, for double-action shooting. In order to get enough finger on the trigger, I held them with a compromised grip, which directed too much recoil into the thumb, which then caused a torquing of the wrist. Lesson: Use guns that fit one’s hands, and hold them properly. The N-Frames grips “felt right” in my long palms, but my less-than-long fingers meant that I could not reach the trigger, while maintaining an ergonomically-proper hold, for long-term hand health.

Edited to add: I actually wanted to stay in my patrol assignment. I felt that was the best assignment to have, for the constant mental stimulation, as well as the better pay, due to “patrol incentive pay,” and the opportunities to wok more overtime assignments. Plus, I had the added special duty of forensic/evidentiary/crime scene photography, which I felt was important. I did finally retire, in 2018, for reasons unrelated to my pistol shooting being a problem.

 

[hso]

we went too small

... for some, but not everyone.

Most people don't have hands so large that a subcompact 9mm can't effectively be gripped. For those that do, a grip sleeve may be an option. That addition may not help everyone and those folks won't carry them.

This "problem" has been around a long time. Derringers, tiny revolvers, the venerable tiny tip-ups, and the whole class of "mouse guns" have been too small for some for over a century. None of them were "just right" Goldilocks Guns for everyone. It isn't a new problem, but the solutions are the same.

 

[SterlingBullet]

I have short fingers and live in Florida. These are some full-size firearms where the tip of my finger does not rest properly on the trigger causing a little pull.

I wear shorts every day with an untucked polo or pocket T-shirt, except about three of four weeks per year. Micro 380s work well for me either in a large cell phone case outside the waist or in my front pocket. My Michelin man figure prevents any inside-the-waist carry.

I have carried a Colt Pony Pocket Light, Ruger LCP, LCP Max, S&W Bodyguard 380, Ruger LCP II Lite Rack 22, NAA Guardian, NAA Mini 22 Mag, Taurus PT 22, and even 32ACP derringers that fit in the palm of my hand.

The micro 9s, the P365, Hellcat and G43 are a nice smaller size, but still a little bulky for me. I have a Springfield 911 in .380ACP I purchased for my spouse that is a perfect gun for carry, ambi-safety for lefties, night sights, 1911 controls, short 1911 trigger pull, that she no longer uses. I want to carry it, but the guy in me won’t let me carry a Robin’s Egg Blue frame with white ivory grips; just absolutely can’t do it.

At work I use a Ruger SRC9 on the waist unconcealed, but pull my shirt down over it if I stop at a store on the way home or meet my family for dinner. Concealable, but still big for Florida clothes.

I have several small early 80s H&R revolvers in 32S&W Long and 22LR that are very reliable that I might try carrying once in a while, but an all steel revolver gets heavy.

 

[Charlie98]

I made that realization about 3 years ago.

I normally carry a Kahr 9mm... either the 'full-size' CW9, or the micro CM9, which is 1/2" shorter at the barrel, and one round less in the grip. In normal draw-and-shoot drills, I'm reasonably proficient with the larger CW9, but completely handsy with the smaller CM9... it's terrible. For that reason, I've pretty much quit carrying the CM9, unless concealment is an absolute issue.

The whole reason I go through the bother of carrying a pistol is to be able to defend my life, or stop a threat to me... If I can't get the gun out of the holster and onto the target in a reasonable fashion in practice, I have a very low expectation I can do it while under duress.

 

[Capybara]

I pocket-carry almost exclusively. My pocket pistols are KelTec P32, Beretta Pico, and SIG P238. The first two are lighter and slimmer, but they don't shoot nearly as well as the P238. It fits my hand really well and feels almost like a mid-size pistol to me, despite fitting easily into a front pants pocket.

For pocket carry, you need to consider not only whether the pistol will fit in your pocket, but also whether you'll be able to draw it easily. I can fit a Glock 42 in my front pocket, but it takes some finagling to get it out again. No pocket carry for that one.

Do you cover/protect the trigger somehow?

 

[Capybara]

The whole reason I go through the bother of carrying a pistol is to be able to defend my life, or stop a threat to me... If I can't get the gun out of the holster and onto the target in a reasonable fashion in practice, I have a very low expectation I can do it while under duress.

Right there with you brother, that's why I'm considering switching to a compact and only carrying my sub compact/micro 9s in specific situations where I might not be able to carry a compact like the G19. Unfortunately I just renewed my CCW in January and
our IA withdrew their letting us add or subtract pistols from our CCW at any time other than renewal. My CCW instructor said that limitation may be going away, I hope it does, or I won't be able to add a G19 or the like for 22 months. Before the Plague, our IA would let us add or subtract pistols from our CCW at any time, but once the Plague kicked in, their CCW unit was constantly short staffed and they stopped letting us add or subtract.

 

[toivo]

Do you cover/protect the trigger somehow?

Absolutely. DeSantis Nemesis holsters for everything.

 

[Skribs]

Absolutely. DeSantis Nemesis holsters for everything.

View attachment 1142444

I love those holsters.

 

[Capybara]

Interesting, those DeSantis look a lot like the Sticky Holster but add that extra piece to snag on the inside of the pocket.

 

[Skribs]

Interesting, those DeSantis look a lot like the Sticky Holster but add that extra piece to snag on the inside of the pocket.

They're not tacky to the touch, but they do have a decent grip to them. The other nice thing about the hook is that it gives the gun the general profile of a wallet or cell phone. My Remora holster was something in between. I personally like the Desantis ones better.

 

[crstrode]

Who Else Has Finally Figured Out That Sub-Compacts Are a CCW Handicap?

There are also those that have figured out that jumbo-sized magnum blasters are a similar - if not worse - handicap.

 

[trackskippy]

There are also those that have figured out that jumbo-sized magnum blasters are a similar - if not worse - handicap.

Love to hear this.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

There are also those that have figured out that jumbo-sized magnum blasters are a similar - if not worse - handicap.

What examples would you qualify as jumbo sized blaters?

 

[crstrode]

What examples would you qualify as jumbo sized blaters?

"Blaters"? Perhaps you mean blathers - Like those that blather on and on about their penchant for guns like these:

 

[trackskippy]

So, a standard, "service" sized handgun is no problem then, and doesn't fall into that category, right?

 

[crstrode]

So, a standard, "service" sized handgun is no problem then, and doesn't fall into that category, right?

I'd reckon for Arnold, that is a standard sized handgun. For the standard "The High Road" tacticool assassin wannabe; not so much.

 

[trackskippy]

I'd reckon for Arnold, that is a standard sized handgun. For the standard "The High Road" tacticool assassin wannabe; not so much.

I came across a pretty good video recently on what to use when in bear country, you know, the bears that will actually eat you, and the boy did a pretty good job of showing what was reality (close to anyway), instead of what people "thought was reality.

He actually used a target rigged up to charge him and showed how different guns worked from the holster, or shoulder, depending on the guns. Turns out, reality really is a bitch!

Funny thing was, most of the guns that many people claim are the best for that job, did really, REALLY bad. Which goes to show you, most people dont have a clue as to what really works in the real world and why. At least this boy was smart enough to try and prove things out.

I really have to wonder sometimes how many people really prove and practice in any kind of realistic manner when they make their choices and base things on. Im thinking most dont, and they think because they can sorta shoot whatever it is kinda well at their leisure on the range, their good to go and call it good.

Hey, whatever. If you think what you carry is gonna work, youre good to go. I guess.

 

[Capybara]

I came across a pretty good video recently on what to use when in bear country, you know, the bears that will actually eat you, and the boy did a pretty good job of showing what was reality (close to anyway), instead of what people "thought was reality.

He actually used a target rigged up to charge him and showed how different guns worked from the holster, or shoulder, depending on the guns. Turns out, reality really is a bitch!

Funny thing was, most of the guns that many people claim are the best for that job, did really, REALLY bad. Which goes to show you, most people dont have a clue as to what really works in the real world and why. At least this boy was smart enough to try and prove things out.

I really have to wonder sometimes how many people really prove and practice in any kind of realistic manner when they make their choices and base things on. Im thinking most dont, and they think because they can sorta shoot whatever it is kinda well at their leisure on the range, their good to go and call it good.

Hey, whatever. If you think what you carry is gonna work, youre good to go. I guess.

Along those lines, I'm one of the few people I know who carries who actually shot their own ballistics gel tests and compared my results with the standardized FBI penetration tests to choose my CCW ammo.
Why would I take someone else's word about how well ammo that I am staking my life on works?

Ballistics gel is expensive and shooting the tests was a PITA but at least I had real world performance testing out of my carry guns.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

I pocket-carry almost exclusively................ For pocket carry, you need to consider not only whether the pistol will fit in your pocket, but also whether you'll be able to draw it easily.

Do you use a pocket holster?

I use a Recluse pocket holster which makes it easy to draw, even with the taller P365X grip module. I'm considering using the shorter P365 grip module to reduce printing.

I did try the DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster and it worked OK. But the Recluse pocket holster is easier to draw from. I use the stock iron sights.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

Along those lines, I'm one of the few people I know who carries who actually shot their own ballistics gel tests and compared my results with the standardized FBI penetration tests to choose my CCW ammo.

Two thumbs up!

Why would I take someone else's word about how well ammo that I am staking my life on works? Ballistics gel is expensive and shooting the tests was a PITA but at least I had real world performance testing out of my carry guns.

I understand your sentiment. Unfortunately I don't have any place to do the testing. So I settle for watching You Tube videos of ballistics testing. But I'm not exactly taking their word as they are providing video evidence. Many of the tests are done poorly without any cloth barriers than can inhibit expansions, etc. But there are the few videos of testing that is performed well.

 

[Skribs]

Along those lines, I'm one of the few people I know who carries who actually shot their own ballistics gel tests and compared my results with the standardized FBI penetration tests to choose my CCW ammo.
Why would I take someone else's word about how well ammo that I am staking my life on works?

Because I'd probably screw up the ballistics gel somehow and my results would be worse.

I've got a general rule of thumb:

• .40 S&W or bigger (or .357 magnum or bigger), and I use white box hollowpoints
• 9mm or .38 special and I use self-defense ammo that's tested well in my barrel length
• .380 ACP and I just use FMJs (also helps that FMJs feed better in my LCP)

 

[toivo]

Do you use a pocket holster?

Sure do -- see #85 above.