InTheSwamp
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- Shot Placement
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Who Else Has Finally Figured Out That Sub-Compacts Are a CCW Handicap?
- Thread starter Capybara
- Start date
orionengnr
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I shoot and (weather/clothing permitting) prefer a 4" N-frame or a 4" 1911.
That said, for summer time in Texas (which is three seasons LOL) I pocket-carry a Kahr PM9, and have done so for about 12 years.
I have tried some of the newer double-stack wonder-nines (Hellcat, 365, and so on) but both weigh 18 oz. empty (4 oz. more than the Kahr).
Then add the weight of five to eight (depending on mag) additional rounds and at that point I could carry my Kahr P45 (or an alloy 3" 1911) and be ahead of the game.
As far as addressing the cartridge disparity, carrying an extra mag for any of the above (in a different pocket) distributes the weight more evenly, and allows a lightweight carry gun plus additional cartridges if necessary.
A friend (big Sig fan) recently bought a P365 but went back to his P238 as his preferred pocket carry..
All that said, while I appreciate the technological advances, I don't see a double-stack wonder-nine in my future.
That said, for summer time in Texas (which is three seasons LOL) I pocket-carry a Kahr PM9, and have done so for about 12 years.
I have tried some of the newer double-stack wonder-nines (Hellcat, 365, and so on) but both weigh 18 oz. empty (4 oz. more than the Kahr).
Then add the weight of five to eight (depending on mag) additional rounds and at that point I could carry my Kahr P45 (or an alloy 3" 1911) and be ahead of the game.
As far as addressing the cartridge disparity, carrying an extra mag for any of the above (in a different pocket) distributes the weight more evenly, and allows a lightweight carry gun plus additional cartridges if necessary.
A friend (big Sig fan) recently bought a P365 but went back to his P238 as his preferred pocket carry..
All that said, while I appreciate the technological advances, I don't see a double-stack wonder-nine in my future.
I’ve gravitated back to compact handguns as primary carry and use the micros and sub compacts as backup guns. I was willing to deal with the slight fumbling of the little gun but what did it for me was shooting drills and how much better I shot the compacts than the smaller ones. Drills like the Elisjsha Dickens drill really showed what I lost with the convenience of a little more conceal ability. I can shoot the little guys well but compared to the compacts it’s no contest. There’s a reason these guns that started off micro compact have grown to slim compact (hellcat pro, p365 xmacro/tac ops). That’s because a lot of people started feeling like the op. I went back to carrying my cz p01, Walther p99, pdp f-series 4” (new), and sig p320c a while ago with no regrets. My m&p 45 shield is the only sub compact I carry as a primary anymore sometimes and that’s because it shoots like a bigger gun and the grip is big enough I don’t feel like I’m grabbing a squirt gun out my waistband.
Alllen Bundy
Member
The "squirt gun" is supposed be carried INSIDE the waistband. Just sayin'.
Armybrat
Member
This one might…. (Gifted the tiny .22lr to my son recently - my small hands could barely cycle the action):
JR24
Member
Morphing to bears is par for the course, it seems.
Neat.
My my typical proving is completing a FAST under 5 seconds in my setup, consistently.
Of course the reload isn’t probably necessary or useful, so a Bill is probably better, but it’s what I do.
As for the OP, my “micro” 9 is a 365xl so it probably doesn’t fully qualify but I’m highly considering replacing my bedside Glock with just my CCW and going 365xl all the time.
trackskippy
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- 3,490
It seems pretty obvious, the bear thing went over a few heads.
It wasnt about "bears", it was about choosing the right gun for the job and being able to actually to use it in a realistic context and fashion from how you carry it.
A lot of people "have" a gun, but theres a lot more to it than just "having" a gun, at least that was the gist of the bear thing.
It wasnt about "bears", it was about choosing the right gun for the job and being able to actually to use it in a realistic context and fashion from how you carry it.
A lot of people "have" a gun, but theres a lot more to it than just "having" a gun, at least that was the gist of the bear thing.
OP
OP
Capybara
Member
An animal charging at you to do you serious harm is the same whether four legged or two legged. I liked that bear video clip because it
effectively showed how fast an attacker can move to close that gap and how much actual time you have to stop a threat. It's less than
most of us think.
effectively showed how fast an attacker can move to close that gap and how much actual time you have to stop a threat. It's less than
most of us think.
CapnMac
Member
As a moderator (elsewhere) I might modify that to "cats on LSD"
Joezilla
Member
I have a 19X but have not attempted to carry it yet. I am now thinking that the 26 would be much better for carry in addition to the plus point of being able to use 19x mags as well.
Joe
OP
OP
Capybara
Member
You do know the 19 is the number one most popular carry gun on the market? Also, not sure of your hand size, I have medium sized hands with slender fingers and I could barely get my ring finger on the grip of the 26, definitely not my pinky. Trying to draw and shoot accurately with only two or three fingers on the grip isn't confidence inspiring. I carry my 17 and it's actually fine other than when I sit or drive, the handle gouges me in the side, I carry at 3 or 4 o'clock so I am thinking of adding the 19 to my carry rotation. Of course, your mileage may vary but I would try carrying your 19X before you consider the 26, unless you've already tried that?
Also, another tip, I recently bought a Clinger Holster. It's my eighth IWB holster and with the extra added pad, it's by far the best holster I've ever worn. It really does cling to my side because if the way the holster boy is hinged with Kydex to Leather. Small, family company in Arkansas, I highly recommend you get one, it is better than my Crosssbreed Supertuck, Alien Gears, etc. More comfortable, better firearm retention, affordable and innovative. It's a bit weird looking but it REALLY works well, especially with the extra cushion. https://clingerholsters.com/product/iwb-hinge-holster/ Someone on a CCW board recommended it to me and I am very happy with it. I don't wear my other holsters anymore and will be replacing them (the ones I have for other CCW guns) with Clinger Holsters.
Living in South Florida, I pocket-carry in a A Holster or Alabama Holster. For me lately it's been either a S&W Chiefs Special 60-7 or a Walther PPS M2. Both are comfortable to carry and both fit my grip just fine. For driving, I cross carry them and afterwards switch back. I'm perfectly happy with this arrangement and have dry fired/drilled to validate its effectiveness - at least as far as that can go.
crstrode
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- Aug 15, 2008
- Messages
- 360
The only circumstances under which this makes sense is if the author had never encountered a handgun, or a self defense situation.
Dunning-Kruger strikes again.
SWMAN
Member
I have big hands and long fingers and find the compacts like a G19 work best for me. You can carry G17 mags as reloads when carrying the G19.
420Stainless
Member
Short fingers here. I actually shoot my Max9 better than most larger guns. For that reason, I won’t be rebounding to something larger. It’ll be the Max9 until I wear it out or run into some functional issue with it.
I don't doubt that the Glock 19 is the number one most popular gun on the market that can be classified as a "carry gun." But, I highly doubt that it is the most carried gun on the market unless you include on-duty police in that figure. I don't think it would be anywhere near the top. Rather, it is most likely to be a much smaller firearm such as a Ruger LCP or J frame, with the people wanting more versatility carrying compact or mini-nines.
OP
OP
Capybara
Member
The sales numbers make it apparent...Not sure who or how one would correlate the most carried gun on the market versus the most sold pistol on the market?
Based upon what I see anecdotally, my guess would be G43, Shield Plus and or Sig P365 and variants
https://www.ammoready.com/best-selling-handguns-of-2022/
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/01/the-glock-19-was-the-top-selling-gun-of-2021/
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/top-selling-handguns-rifles-shotguns-2021/
Based upon what I see anecdotally, my guess would be G43, Shield Plus and or Sig P365 and variants
https://www.ammoready.com/best-selling-handguns-of-2022/
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/01/the-glock-19-was-the-top-selling-gun-of-2021/
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/top-selling-handguns-rifles-shotguns-2021/
Homerboy
Member
doesn’t mean it’s the most carried. Just the most purchased. I used to carry my Glock 19. Wouldn’t dream of it anymore when there are smaller and lighter guns with nearly the same capacity. For me, every ounce and inch matter and the Glock 19 is far too big for me. Haven’t carried it in over 20 years.
In the past year I have tested for carry a Shield 9, a XDM 3.8 and my old Glock 26. I like the XDM except it gets heavy with the 19 round mag. The Glock 26 with 15 round mag works perfect. If I need a touch smaller I have 10 and 12 round mags. If I want bigger I have 17 round mags. Here it is with the 15 round mag
TacticalJanitor
Member
I would give it a try man. The G19 &19X are very good choices. Nearly everyone agrees on that. But, the 26 carries and conceals better. It recovers from recoil faster than the mini 9s and is more reliable and softer-shooting. Lots of peeps are going to disagree, but I occasionally have assorted failures and stoppages with mini 9s. Glock 26s work the same as a 19. Very forgiving of improper grip and accidental limp wristing.
A G26 that is milled for a red dot can match every drill time I run with a G19 & red dot. No exaggeration. The G26 comes out of the holster faster too. Presentation is a little different for each due to the hump in the G26 grip.
Between the two, it comes down to wether or not you need to use your pinky to shoot well...IMO. I always know if I'm packing a 19. I sometimes forget about the pistol when packing a 26.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Old Dog
Member
So, seven pages so far?
What did we learn from this thread? Seems the consensus is that not a lot of people agree with the OP's premise.
We've got a butt-ton of members here who cop to carrying LCPs, G2s, G3s, SIG P-238s, P-938s, P-365s, G26s, G30s, J-frames, Kimber Micros and Makos, S&W Shields, SA XDs's, etc., as their primary concealed carry guns.
So apparently, not too many folks consider sub-compacts a CCW handicap.
What did we learn from this thread? Seems the consensus is that not a lot of people agree with the OP's premise.
We've got a butt-ton of members here who cop to carrying LCPs, G2s, G3s, SIG P-238s, P-938s, P-365s, G26s, G30s, J-frames, Kimber Micros and Makos, S&W Shields, SA XDs's, etc., as their primary concealed carry guns.
So apparently, not too many folks consider sub-compacts a CCW handicap.
jar
Contributing Member
The significant character in CCW is the middle "C".
The biggest issue is finding something the individual will carry and will practice with. If the firearm feels wrong, hurts, is uncomfortable, costs too much, uses ammo that costs too much, is difficult for the user to maintain, is difficult for the user to rack, is ugly, it simply doesn't get carried.
Telling someone they need to learn how to do basic stuff or do strength training is easy, but seldom effective. A firearm that is not optimal or has a handicap or uses a less powerful cartridge but that will actually get carried is far superior to anything left home.
The biggest issue is finding something the individual will carry and will practice with. If the firearm feels wrong, hurts, is uncomfortable, costs too much, uses ammo that costs too much, is difficult for the user to maintain, is difficult for the user to rack, is ugly, it simply doesn't get carried.
Telling someone they need to learn how to do basic stuff or do strength training is easy, but seldom effective. A firearm that is not optimal or has a handicap or uses a less powerful cartridge but that will actually get carried is far superior to anything left home.
trackskippy
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- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,490
I think youre right here, and just in general when it comes to the general public that might be carrying a gun. They want what's easy, and go with easy, simply because it is "easy" and requires less from them.
"Carrying" the gun is only one part of all this, and the really important part, comes after the carry part. Yet that part seems to be blown off by a lot of people.
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