Who makes the best junk gun?

[mustang_steve]

So, basically... calling a cast zinc gun "pot metal" is actually a compliment. Scary.

How is misuse of English in the context of this thread scary?

The correct term for what these guns are made of is die-cast metal....if you want to be derogatory call it "matchbox car metal"...but, we all know how much it took to kill a matchbox car.

Point being, Zamak (the trade name for various die cast alloys) can be surprisingly strong. The problems with many of the SNS makers is simply pathetic quality control. Remember the early days of Kel-Tec....people said all kinds of crap about them, and rightly so. Eventually they got their game straight.

That's what separates a budget firearm maker from an SNS maker....if they actually give a hoot about quality, or adhere to the "just send them free parts" mantra.

Of course new companies will use the latter more often than the former, at least until they work the kinks out of their product...it's just how fast they do it.

For example, I do consider my SCCY a SNS, as after 6 years, they still don't have their **** together....they make a good pistol, but it goes through parts like mad. It was made to save your hide and that's it....not range use. Sadly I am the kind of shooter that practices heavily, so I plow through "free hardware" like a mad banshee.

Do I regret it? Well, I would have bought Kel-Tec if I had the chance to do it again for ergonomic reasons I wasn't aware of when I bought it, but I don't regret it...just passed it off as a less than wise move. For now I'm living with it.

 

[Bobo]

For a gun that costs about $100 I vote for Highpoint being the best.

They are very reliable, quite accurate, and have a lifetime warranty.

All the others are not as reliable, accuracy varies, and don't have lifetime warranty.


Bobo

 

[The Bushmaster]

I have a FIE Titan .25 ACP. Have had it for quite a few years. Amazingly dependable. Very inaccurate, but has never failed to fire or malfunction with any ammunition.

Best cheap gun? You figure...

 

[Justin]

So if $40 is all someone had, you think they'd be better armed with a fist than a cheap gun? I haven't seen too many guns that wouldn't fire (even if it's only one round) with one in the chamber as long as they were using quality ammo.

For $40, you'd probably be better off with a couple of cans of pepper spray or possibly a collapsible baton than to rely on a firearm that will have a much higher-than-average tendency to jam, miss, or discharge accidentally.

And where are you finding these used S&W revolvers, eastern bloc pistols, and keltecs for "just a little bit more money", because where I live, makarovs, tokarevs(sp?), model 10s, etc., are all around $200 and up when you can find them. That's a big jump in price from what I paid for my pot metal plinkers.

Those firearms aren't the same price as the pot-metal junk, but they're also a tremendous jump in quality and reliability. Heck, even the High Point pistols aren't much more than $100, and despite their ergonomic and engineering shortcomings, they at least have a reputation for reliably feeding hardball ammo.

... if it weren't so funny. But, of course, what would I know. I must've photoshopped my guns and lied about round count

I've not seen where you've stated round count in this thread. That said, I have a hard time believing that such firearms would reliably function in the long term from someone who's even just a casual shooter.

My Davis has a hammer block safety, although it's not intuitive and rather awkward. I would suspect the problem is more having to do with being a Derringer than being a Davis.

That right there is a problem, then. Getting the firearm into operation should not be something that is impeded by the design.

 

[Stophel]

I don't like cheap guns. They are just that, cheap, generally unreliable, and often dangerous. I would actually be scared to fire a Jennings... My Grandfather bought a .22 Clerke revolver many years ago at a flea market for $25....I absolutely would not shoot that thing.

I would not, and could not EVER recommend someone buying a cheap gun. I often see/hear the question "I only have $100 or $200 to spend...what kind of gun should I get?"....NONE. Unless you run across somebody that is real hard up for cash and can sell you a better grade gun for that much, you're better off not wasting your money...or your life.

BUT...that dang Raven .25....pot metal cheap thing though it is, WORKS, by golly. The damndest thing...

 

[mcdonl]

I find it rather disheartening when someone buys one of these pot metal junk guns, fires tens of rounds through it, and then declares it to be reliable enough for serious self-defense use.

Justin, I think I agree with you but this statement made me think of the book "The Road".... THAT guy would have put his life in the hands of any gun he could get his hands on. So, it is all relative....

Now, if your shopping for a gun... I agree. Buy a gun you can afford... practice, practice practice... and when you have shot 1000's of rounds through it then you can feel safe with it as a CCW... but most of the time folks would have replaced it by the time they got to that point.

Did I make since?

 

[jimmyraythomason]

best junk gun? Why not the worst high quality gun?

 

[mcdonl]

Nevermind.

 

[okespe04]

Cobra makes some real crap.

 

[jahwarrior]

i always see Makarovs at my local shops for under and slightly above $100, depending on their condition. i know a few guys who carry them, and say they're dependable, accurate little guns, just knock offs of Bersas. i might pick one up, just for the sake of having another reliable throw away gun.

 

[RoostRider]

On topic- A buddy of mine has a Llama 1911 style .380 that never missed a beat.... kind of ugly, super inexpensive.... not sure whether I would 'want' that gun, but I would sure as heck take it over nothing.

Did I make since?

Since when?

While I buy 'quality' firearms (even when I was dirt poor), and I test them thoroughly for accuracy and reliability before carrying them, I certainly don't put 1000's of rounds through them before I consider them acceptable to put on my side for SD.

 

[Justin]

The Makarov is not a knockoff of the Bersa Thunder, as the Thunder is a much newer design. Russia, China, and other Eastern Bloc nations were churning Makarovs out starting in the 1950's, iirc.

That said, both of the guns share a number of similarities including being chambered for rounds smaller than the 9mm, straight blowback operating system, and a safety latch that acts as a decocker.

I certainly don't put 1000's of rounds through them before I consider them acceptable to put on my side for SD

I consider 400 rounds of hard ball practice ammo, and a box or two of whatever hollow point I intend to carry to be a sufficient method of determining if a gun functions reliably. After that, it's just general practice at the range, or running the gun at an occasional IPSC or IDPA match.

 

[savit260]

I think the Bersa would be the knock off of the Makarov, which I believe was based on the Walther type design. They were Soviet Military and Police pistols. Very reliable.


The Mak's are a fantastic little pistol. I'd love to find one for $100!

EDIT: Justin beat me to it..

 

[RoostRider]

I consider 400 rounds of hard ball practice ammo, and a box or two of whatever hollow point I intend to carry to be a sufficient method of determining if a gun functions reliably. After that, it's just general practice at the range, or running the gun at an occasional IPSC or IDPA match.

I'm with you.... I've put 1,000's of rounds through many different guns, guns I would happily rely on today, but that isn't by any stretch of the imagination what I think it takes for a gun to 'prove' itself to me. In fact, that (and IDPA) is what has taught me that ANY firearm (or ammo) can fail (even the top quality custom auto's with proper care), and to be ready for that possibility.

 

[TimboKhan]

Going back to post #1 of this thread, let me quote:

The jennings has had two jams, and a few other times it didn't feed the first round because the round wasn't sitting at the right angle to feed (poor mag design for rimmed ammo maybe?). Accuracy from both of them was good enough for close range plinking, and more than adequate for SD.

Really, that settles the argument for me right there. If a 1 in 30 chance that the thing is going to work provided it even feeds is considered adequate for SD, then godspeed and good luck to you.

 

[Nathanael_Greene]

I have a FIE Titan .25 ACP. Have had it for quite a few years. Amazingly dependable. Very inaccurate, but has never failed to fire or malfunction with any ammunition.

Very similar to my experience...but my Titan is actually pretty accurate (all things considered). Cost me $39, back in the day.

 

[mcdonl]

It may sound strange, but growing up in Maine, in a commercial fishing family one way of classify people is by their ability to make something work. Some people need to have the best, as they do not have the ability to make something "less then perfect" do the job.

Others can make whatever tool at hand work. Never would a man in need say "if I cannot get the best I will take nothing at all...." That would be weak.

 

[Two Cold Soakers]

Glock

byegottago

 

[w_houle]

Glock

byegottago

Hand grenades go in the NFA section

 

[RoostRider]

Really, that settles the argument for me right there. If a 1 in 30 chance that the thing is going to work provided it even feeds is considered adequate for SD, then godspeed and good luck to you.

I have a very nice AR15 that jammed 1 in 30. Until I learned how to keep it lubed it jammed all the time. I wasn't used to using so much lube, and it seemed odd to me, but I eventually caught on.

Since then it has jammed on average maybe ~1 in 3,000..... including some testing to see how much shooting I could get out of it before it needed to be re-lubed.

Is that reliable enough? You have to answer that question yourself, because no gun is beyond fault....

I'm not saying that a gun that doesn't function reliably is acceptable in SD. I'm pointing out that sometimes it is the user and I'm saying that you have to decide for yourself how reliable is reliable enough, because there is nothing out there that is incapable of failing.....

If I was getting crappy performance from a gun I would figure it out or go to another gun (so far I've only had one gun that I didn't figure it out on, and that was a crappy AR-7 that just doesn't seem worth the time.... but it's still here waiting if I ever feel like dealing with it)... but if I figured it out and it functions properly after, well, I don't just write it off as a bad gun

 

[coosbaycreep]

quote:
"For $40, you'd probably be better off with a couple of cans of pepper spray or possibly a collapsible baton than to rely on a firearm that will have a much higher-than-average tendency to jam, miss, or discharge accidentally.

Those firearms aren't the same price as the pot-metal junk, but they're also a tremendous jump in quality and reliability. Heck, even the High Point pistols aren't much more than $100, and despite their ergonomic and engineering shortcomings, they at least have a reputation for reliably feeding hardball ammo."


Have you ever used pepper spray in windy conditions? I have against a dog one time, and I ended up only blinding myself. Luckily the dog ran away because I was yelling at it, but if that had been a real SD situation, I would've been screwed. I've never heard of a .22lr or .25acp being blown back in someone's face because of the wind though, have you? Therefore, I'd take any gun with a round in the chamber over a can of pepper spray any day of the week.

I think suggesting a collapsible baton is stupid too. Unless you're properly trained with one (or a steroid user or something), there's a lot of times when someone would just take it away from you and beat you with it. I wouldn't want to take a baton to a gun fight either. I'd still take a junk gun first.

Last time I checked, hi-points are $199 to $229 in my area. I have only seen one S&W revolver for under $300 in the past two years, and it was a beat up model 10 with no blueing left.

This thread wasn't even about SD in the first place. I said I'd carry the junk guns I have if it's all I had, and if I didn't already have something better and had almost no money, I wouldn't have a problem buying one for protection.

The whole reason I even started this thread was because I was pleased with two cheap guns I bought that I had mainly heard nothing but negative comments about, although a lot of them are probably from gun snobs who have never even fired one. I never said that pot metal is better than ruger, glock, etc. I never said a jennings would be my first choice in a gun fight, or that I'd expect it to last thousands of rounds without failure. I was just curious what most people considered to be the best of the dirt cheap guns. I guess I shouldn't have used the term "junk" though, because sarcasm seems to be beyond most of the people here.

And there's a whole lot of threads on high end guns like kimbers not working, glocks blowing up, etc. In fact, the most expensive gun I own (ptr-91) only works as a single shot with surplus ammo, despite the fact that it's a clone of a military rifle. It doesn't matter who's name is on the slide, or how much you paid for it, any gun can fail.

You can't hardly ask a question on this forum anymore without people giving you answers to questions you never asked in the first place.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Nathanael Greene...What ammunition did you settle on for your Titan? I got the best results with Fiocchi 35 grain HP/XTP.

No I don't use it for self defense. It sits in my safe loaded as a last chance gun.

 

[w_houle]

You can't hardly ask a question on this forum anymore without people giving you answers to questions you never asked in the first place.

I do apologize for the misunderstanding.

For the sheer fun of plinking? I would say this

 

[lions]

...there's a lot of times when someone would just take it away from you and beat you with it.

Well then just take it back and beat them with it until they take it from you again and the cycle rages on. If our weapons will always be taken and used against us maybe it would be wise to just give them to the bad guy from the get go so that we can have the upper hand.

I know, off-topic rant. Just a pet-peeve, feel free to ignore.

 

[butters]

Hi-Point. Inexpensive and a transferable lifetime warranty.