MCgunner
Member
I wish I could find a mak in 9x18 around here. I want one. If I could get it for under 200 I'd be happy. I'm not into ordering, so don't bother posting gunbroker auctions or J&G sales.
Who makes the best junk gun?
- Thread starter coosbaycreep
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MachIVshooter
Member
The FIE titan (also Targa) are tanfoglio GT-27's, and are actually good little guns. I just recently sold one (had no use for it), but it always worked well.
Agreed. I bought one on a whim for $107 brand new, and picked up the "range kit" (5" Barrel, extended mag baseplate) for $35 later. These little guns are tack drivers with decent triggers. I had to epoxy the slide mounted safety eventually, as it kept engaging during firing, but otherwise the little gun runs very well. I wouldn't carry it as a defensive piece, the .22 LR caliber being only one reason. But it's a great plinker.
All I can say is........
Agreed. I bought one on a whim for $107 brand new, and picked up the "range kit" (5" Barrel, extended mag baseplate) for $35 later. These little guns are tack drivers with decent triggers. I had to epoxy the slide mounted safety eventually, as it kept engaging during firing, but otherwise the little gun runs very well. I wouldn't carry it as a defensive piece, the .22 LR caliber being only one reason. But it's a great plinker.
All I can say is........
larryh1108
Member
+1 on the Raven .25. Best, cheap gun out there. Why it gets no respect is beyond me. For about $75 you get the best of the worst in an undersized cartridge. I have over 1000 rounds thru my previously used Raven and other than changing the recoil spring I couldn't be happier with my "investment". It's a nice, little sucker! Notice the nice, wood grips. Much better than the plastic ones! Quality at a bargain price! Gotta love my Raven!
As far as the Phoenix HP22 goes, nice, sharp looking, reliable and accurate handgun that is just fun to shoot. I have almost 5,000 round thru 2 different ones and they are still humming like new. The only maintenence is new recoil springs every 500-800 rounds. When it starts to stovepipe it's time for a new spring. Fun little gun!
As far as the Phoenix HP22 goes, nice, sharp looking, reliable and accurate handgun that is just fun to shoot. I have almost 5,000 round thru 2 different ones and they are still humming like new. The only maintenence is new recoil springs every 500-800 rounds. When it starts to stovepipe it's time for a new spring. Fun little gun!
MatthewVanitas
Member
Yet another vote for the various labellings of the Tanfoglio GT-27.
Neat little gun, seems very solid compared to a Raven of Phoenix, and vaguely Beretta-ish in lines. Again, I haven't torture-tested one, but I dumped a box-full of .25 Blazer through one with zero issues.
(pic from another THR member)
TimboKhan
Member
Not bad points, but AR's, despite hater claims otherwise, are generally considered to be pretty reliable at this point in their evolution. The guns the OP listed are notoriously bad guns. Like, it would be noteworthy if one functioned properly. In any case, you are right that any gun (or round) can malfunction at any time, but I think we all bet on the averages.
My Ruger P90 has had something like a gazillion rounds fired down it and has been largely trouble-free. Enough so that I have developed a deep trust in that firearm to work every time I pull the trigger. Of course I know it could malfunction, but trigger time and experience have me betting my life (at least in theory) that it will come through when I need it.
Anyway, to sum up my response to you friend, 1 in 3000 aren't bad odds. I would obviously prefer a 0 in infinity chance of failure, but as a practical matter I also understand that any machine can break.
Glock.
Now, before I get ripped to shreds by
The Glock attack dogs here, I have a point to make.
I still own a Winchester singleshot .22 67a with iron sights.
First firearm I shot, been shooting it for 55 years.
Despite my eyes, I can hit with it better than a lot of other stuff.
Flashback.
Back in the early sixties, knew a Frenchman who worked for
A private school near Aspen, Colorado.
He was a highly competitive skier and kayaker,
And was the coach for both the ski and kayak teams.
Well, the rich kids, who had the best and the latest of everything,
Were losing, losing, losing.
And it was always the equipment's fault.
So he got seriously P.O.' d one day,
And pulled an ancient set of wood boards and leather boots off
The wall of a certain Aspen venue,
Put them on and proceeded to beat all the highly equipped
Teenage hotshots to the bottom of the run by a mile.
A couple of them learned from this.
The point? Oh yeah,
It is a poor workman blames his tools.
I would be far more respectful of a person
Who absolutely has their junk gun dialed in
Than a person who has their $5k whizbang custom
With fifty rounds through it.
isher
Now, before I get ripped to shreds by
The Glock attack dogs here, I have a point to make.
I still own a Winchester singleshot .22 67a with iron sights.
First firearm I shot, been shooting it for 55 years.
Despite my eyes, I can hit with it better than a lot of other stuff.
Flashback.
Back in the early sixties, knew a Frenchman who worked for
A private school near Aspen, Colorado.
He was a highly competitive skier and kayaker,
And was the coach for both the ski and kayak teams.
Well, the rich kids, who had the best and the latest of everything,
Were losing, losing, losing.
And it was always the equipment's fault.
So he got seriously P.O.' d one day,
And pulled an ancient set of wood boards and leather boots off
The wall of a certain Aspen venue,
Put them on and proceeded to beat all the highly equipped
Teenage hotshots to the bottom of the run by a mile.
A couple of them learned from this.
The point? Oh yeah,
It is a poor workman blames his tools.
I would be far more respectful of a person
Who absolutely has their junk gun dialed in
Than a person who has their $5k whizbang custom
With fifty rounds through it.
isher
larryh1108
Member
Great story but I don't know where the Glock fits in there. It could be said for any make or model of gun. The right tool in the hands of someone who knows how to use it is invaluable. Last I checked, a 9mm (or .45, etc) hole is a 9mm hole no matter how cheap or expensive the gun is that shot it. At SD distances the only thing that matters that it goes BANG when you need it. I don't really think the guy with the hole in him cares what kind of gun it was that put it there. If you have absolute faith in your choice of weapons then that is all that matters. If you have any doubt at all, not matter how much it cost, then you need to find a different gun.
MachIVshooter
Member
Isher-
I agree to a point, but there is a certain minimum. As a professional mechanic, I'd be a fool to outfit myself 100% from harbor freight. Sometimes quality is just nice to have, but in cetain applications, it is absolutely essential.
I agree to a point, but there is a certain minimum. As a professional mechanic, I'd be a fool to outfit myself 100% from harbor freight. Sometimes quality is just nice to have, but in cetain applications, it is absolutely essential.
NMGonzo
Member
Isn't this like asking who has the fastest Yugo?
-Matt
Fiat.
ThePunisher'sArmory
Member
Who cares why would you buy junk?
commygun
Member
To actually answer the OP's question I'd have to go with the Phoenix HP-22. I've also had a couple of IJ revolvers for less than a $100. They were mechanically sound but had an almost supernatural ability to shoot sideways.
jahwarrior
Member
well, see there? i learned something today! yeah, i see these alot in my area. i wonder if they were popular in this area for some reason. the last time i was at the range, i talked to an elderly gentleman; he regularly carried two of them, and loaded his own ammo for them, not to mention 9mm and .45ACP. he said 20 years ago you could buy one for $50, but they were great guns to have.
five.five-six
Member
I love my davis 380.... but instead of going bang bang, it goes pew pew pew
it does hit steel like nobodeys business... it is a real hoot to shoot.... but as for trusting it with my life... IDK
I have a hipoint in 9mm, and it shoots great... but is is just soooo ugly
it does hit steel like nobodeys business... it is a real hoot to shoot.... but as for trusting it with my life... IDK
I have a hipoint in 9mm, and it shoots great... but is is just soooo ugly
makarovnik
Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2006
- Messages
- 1,678
The Jennings are a decent SNS if you don't get the "Nine". I own a Hi-Point and like it. I think any large caliber handgun with a zinc/aluminum alloy slide could be classified as a SNS. The Kel-Tec has a steel slide.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Perhaps this marks me as someone who's a gun snob, but if you have to change a recoil spring within 1,000 rounds, I'd consider that pretty much unacceptable.
REAPER4206969
Member
You have to change the recoil spring every 100rds in this.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=156010991
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=156010991
First of all, Kel Tec does not make junk guns. I have owned Jennings and Hi-Point. I had a Hi-Point 40 which was ugly, heavy, and overly bulky, but was 100% reliable and suprisingly accurate. The only reason I sold it was because of the weight and bulk. It just wasn't much fun carrying it out in the woods. The Jennings was not so good.
MachIVshooter
Member
Why does this nonsense persist? The company has proved itself time and again, but nonetheless....
I think I speak for many members here when I say we'd trust our lives to our KT's. I do every day. There is nothing junk about them. Innovative, intuitive operation, light weight, state of the art manufacturing, US made by NRA members and a lifetime warranty that George stands behind. Absolutely not junk.
Nathanael_Greene
Member
All I've ever used is Winchester White Box. To be honest, I've never taken the little Titan very titanically; I mainly use it for fun at the range. (I get some weird looks from people when I take out that little pistol, but it hasn't embarrassed me yet.)
christcorp
Member
Unfortunately, too many people interchange the words "CHEAP" and "INEXPENSIVE". There are a lot of cheap (Junk) guns out there. They are not reliable enough to trust one's life with. I've had experience with many of these guns. I've bought some, just to have first hand experience with, then I've traded them out at gun shows. Some I didn't own, I had friends that did own them and I've shot theirs. I won't mention some of these brands, because it's just going to get people into a debate. And this topic was about the "Best" of the "Junk". Well, I won't use the word junk, because the next category is "Inexpensive". There are quite a few guns that are inexpensive, that are NOT CHEAP. And they aren't junk.
And argue all you want, but as a whole, (Meaning ALL guns have lemons. Even Glock, HK, Sig, etc...); but as a whole, Hi-Point makes "Inexpensive" guns that are NOT cheap and are NOT junk. Most people who speak bad of them, have NEVER owned one. Those who say they've owned one and that it was junk, is very far and few between. And those, if posting on the internet, I have to take with a grain of salt. But those I know 1st hand; including myself, who have owned one, has been very surprised with the reliability and dependability of their Hi-Point pistols. And those who think customer service takes weeks, are they themselves a joke. I personally sent a Hi-Point in to the company to have it looked at because I picked it up used and didn't really know the history of it. I sent it UPS ground; it arrived to HP on Monday; the replaced a number of parts (Because it was an older model, so they upgraded it). They also replaced normal wear and tear parts. Test fired it. Sent an additional magazine back with it to cover my cost for shipping it; and they sent it back 3 days after them getting it. They sent it 2 day air and it was back to me the following monday. Total time from me sending to them and receiving it back..... 10 days. And the whole time, they kept me informed of the process. BEST customer service of any firearm company I've used. And I've used sig, s&w, and CZ.
Are Hi-Points ugly, bulky, heavy, and have other ergonomics and aesthetics issues? MOST DEFINITELY! And that can be a valid reason for not wanting one of these pistols. No argument. But anyone who says that Hi-Points are junk, dangerous, will fall apart, etc.... is either regurgitating stuff they've "Read" and "Heard" and thus talking out their A$$ because they've never owned one. Or, they have a unique situation which is not common, and happens even with glock, hk, and every other manufacturer. In other words; go to the hi-point forums instead of the generic forums like this one, and you'll find very few owners with problems. And you'll also find that most of those who own these are not just a bunch of poor white trash or inner city gangsters. Most people who own these also have SigSauer, S&W, Glocks, HK, CZ, and many others. In other words, they know about their guns. They know about HP. They didn't buy it because they are poor and didn't know better. Again; the vast majority of those who say HP are junk, are full of ****te. They don't know what the hell they are talking about. They are just jumping on a bandwagon of crap.
Now; do the hp owners, including myself, normally carry the HP as a carry piece? Most don't. Most don't carry conceal them. They are ugly, heavy, and bulky. But many of us keep them as truck guns; garage guns; in our tackle box; camping gear; extra room in the house; etc.... They are very reliable and dependable. And for $150 new; $70-$90 used; they are "Inexpensive", NOT CHEAP. And used is great, because a simple phone call to HP and you can send it to them and have it back in 10 days practically brand new. Doesn't matter if you are the original owner or #10. NO QUESTIONS ASKED!!! I DON'T consider HP junk guns. But under the definition that most HP ignorant people use, then HP would be the best bang for the buck of such guns.
And argue all you want, but as a whole, (Meaning ALL guns have lemons. Even Glock, HK, Sig, etc...); but as a whole, Hi-Point makes "Inexpensive" guns that are NOT cheap and are NOT junk. Most people who speak bad of them, have NEVER owned one. Those who say they've owned one and that it was junk, is very far and few between. And those, if posting on the internet, I have to take with a grain of salt. But those I know 1st hand; including myself, who have owned one, has been very surprised with the reliability and dependability of their Hi-Point pistols. And those who think customer service takes weeks, are they themselves a joke. I personally sent a Hi-Point in to the company to have it looked at because I picked it up used and didn't really know the history of it. I sent it UPS ground; it arrived to HP on Monday; the replaced a number of parts (Because it was an older model, so they upgraded it). They also replaced normal wear and tear parts. Test fired it. Sent an additional magazine back with it to cover my cost for shipping it; and they sent it back 3 days after them getting it. They sent it 2 day air and it was back to me the following monday. Total time from me sending to them and receiving it back..... 10 days. And the whole time, they kept me informed of the process. BEST customer service of any firearm company I've used. And I've used sig, s&w, and CZ.
Are Hi-Points ugly, bulky, heavy, and have other ergonomics and aesthetics issues? MOST DEFINITELY! And that can be a valid reason for not wanting one of these pistols. No argument. But anyone who says that Hi-Points are junk, dangerous, will fall apart, etc.... is either regurgitating stuff they've "Read" and "Heard" and thus talking out their A$$ because they've never owned one. Or, they have a unique situation which is not common, and happens even with glock, hk, and every other manufacturer. In other words; go to the hi-point forums instead of the generic forums like this one, and you'll find very few owners with problems. And you'll also find that most of those who own these are not just a bunch of poor white trash or inner city gangsters. Most people who own these also have SigSauer, S&W, Glocks, HK, CZ, and many others. In other words, they know about their guns. They know about HP. They didn't buy it because they are poor and didn't know better. Again; the vast majority of those who say HP are junk, are full of ****te. They don't know what the hell they are talking about. They are just jumping on a bandwagon of crap.
Now; do the hp owners, including myself, normally carry the HP as a carry piece? Most don't. Most don't carry conceal them. They are ugly, heavy, and bulky. But many of us keep them as truck guns; garage guns; in our tackle box; camping gear; extra room in the house; etc.... They are very reliable and dependable. And for $150 new; $70-$90 used; they are "Inexpensive", NOT CHEAP. And used is great, because a simple phone call to HP and you can send it to them and have it back in 10 days practically brand new. Doesn't matter if you are the original owner or #10. NO QUESTIONS ASKED!!! I DON'T consider HP junk guns. But under the definition that most HP ignorant people use, then HP would be the best bang for the buck of such guns.
w_houle
Member
Oh, that's easy; just buy one from Wolff... Oh yeah, they don't make one
Rex B
Member
I have currently 5 of the small frame llamas, 4 .380s and a .22. All of them run like a clock. the 1940s Llamas are as fine a gun as any Colt of the same period.
The .22s do require hi-velocity ammo, some of the bulk stuff just won't cycle them reliably. Remember these are steel slides, not aluminum like most .22 semi-autos use. You need some oomph to move that steel back.
I'd note that those llama .22s are hard to find under $400 these days.
The Bushmaster
Member
For all you guys that keep asking. "Why would you buy "junk" in the first place"...Iand a lot of others on here don't buy "junk" guns. But a few do fall into your hands on occasion. I have two "junk" guns. Both inherited from my father-in-law. Just never got around to digging a hole and burying them...
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