Why 8?

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leadcounsel

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Sitting here holding a Sig Sauer P6... an excellent design by the way. Mag capacity is 8 rounds of 9mm. The P6 was designed as far as I can circa 1975. The only deficiency as far as I can tell is the low magazine capacity.

Also have a CZ 75 compact and a CZ P07 here too... mag capacity is 14 and 16 respectively, in nearly identical frame pistol. The CZ 75 was designed in 1975 and the PO7 came decades later.

Pondering how or why it never occurred to the German designers to try to design the grip a little different to create a double stack magazine to get a few more rounds in it.

Perhaps more modern designers have benefited from computer CAD programs. But for two pistols to be made in the same era (1975) by premier engineers, for military/law enforcement purposes, with equivalent dimensions but drastically different capacity, just puzzles me. Clearly the concept of high capacity was not lost on the Europeans - they did afterall have the Browning Hi Power, which predated the Sig P6...

I can't believe they would purposefully want a low capacity single stack magazine when a few tweeks here and there could have created a double stack with nearly twice the capacity, like the CZ75 compact.

We see other examples between modern makers, in the quest for higher capacity.

Beretta 92FS has a standard magazine of 15 rounds. MecGar has figured out how to put 18 in the same size magazine... why hasn't Beretta followed suit?

Some others like Springfield XD and CZ are pushing 19 rounds in their pistols, which have grips no more wide than the Beretta 92FS.

Seems some engineers are really behind the curve given that capacity is a sales point for many consumers (not all, and certainly not the most important sales point to be clear).

The 1911 benefits from a slim single stack design... but for instance the P6 does not really as compared to the G19, XD 9mm, S&W M&P, CZ75 compact, and a bunch of others that are double stack...
 
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I can't believe they would purposefully want

They followed tech specs for contract competitions and not every PD or Military thought officers needed to carry/waste a lot of ammo for what was as much a symbol of position as a last ditch defensive tool. Remember that the P6 was intended for Polizei of the time in Europe at the same time our police were carrying 6 shot revolvers and 8 round 1911s. Gotta remember the histories and look at the context for firearms designs to make sense.
 
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Just get a P226/229. Basically same sized grip, but double stack mags.

I had P6's, 226's and 229's, and the P6's were basically just a novelty.
 
The answer is that large magazine capacity did not have a high priority. The thinking was that a gunfight would be settled with the first few rounds; if not, a quick magazine change was available. (And, indeed, statistics bear this out.)

The people that procure arms for government agencies and institutions have always had a traditionalist mindset. Think back to the resistance, during the Civil War era, to the adoption of cartridge arms, breechloaders, and repeaters. It was felt that these would merely waste ammunition.
 
The only thing that a hi -cap mag does is add weight and usually bulk to a gun. I don't need more weight. I can't keep my pants up now. And it is my belief that if I can't hit my target with the first 8 shots another 7 to 10 rounds probably won't help.JMO
 
In the case of the P6, the only thing lacking, is the extra ammo. The grips between it and the P226 are very similar, and likely not noticeable to most, if handed the gun not knowing what model it was.

Ive never understood the thinking that less is better, but if it makes you happy, thats all that counts I guess.
 
It takes me about the same time. I just bring a lot more single stack mags when I take them. ;)
 
Just get a P226. Basically same sized grip, but double stack mags.

I had P6's, 226's and 229's, and the P6's were basically just a novelty.
been there//bought that//have both :D
edit: My P226 is a bigger gun, a lot bigger for carry purposes than the P6, even with the E2 wraparound grips. The 229 I agree is like a P6 sized P226 except thicker and a lot heavier than the P6. Still, I've been looking at one in 40 S&W from CDNN... You can't really go wrong with Sig.
 
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Are you serious? The P6 is a great gun with interesting history, why mess with it? Sell the P6 and go get yourself a Glock.
I have a glock as well! I'll never sell the P6. I was just thinking as sort of a novelty what it would be like to adapt the drum to one of its magazines. I didnt mean to kick up a nest here.
 
I have a P225, bought for its sensuous grip contours.
The gun and even its grip shape arose out of the German police specifications. They were replacing their 7.65 PPs with 9mm P to deal more effectively with the Baader-Meinhof Gang and the Red Army Brigade. They wanted more power but also wanted to keep the bulk down for long days on duty.

Nobody has mentioned the P228. Pity.
 
Small mags are OK with me. I usually just load ten into my higher capacity guns anyway. A full mag just tempts me to waste ammo and to appreciate the experiance of shooting less. Even my carry gun has just a 5 round capacity. The only time I might ever need 17 rounds of 9mm is in some future senario with little to no rule of law.
 
Beretta 92FS has a standard magazine of 15 rounds. MecGar has figured out how to put 18 in the same size magazine... why hasn't Beretta followed suit?

Some others like Springfield XD and CZ are pushing 19 rounds in their pistols, which have grips no more wide than the Beretta 92FS.


You realize you can get Factory 17/20/30rd Beretta magazines?
 
I'd have much rather had 8 rounds of 9mm with a fast reload vs. the 6 shot revolver most American police were using at the same time, with a SLOW reload to boot. 9mm single stacks are also pretty traditional European fair.
 
The only deficiency as far as I can tell is the low magazine capacity.
Deficiency?

If magazine capacity were the predominant factor in the outcome of gunfights, citizen or police, the market would have purged itself of low capacity handguns a long time ago. Can anyone find supporting evidence of shoot-outs involving citizens (or even police for that matter) where the outcome was determined by who had the gun with the most cartridges aboard?

High capacity is very important in Call of Duty or Battlefield, but in real life it’s way down at the bottom of the priority list.
 
I kinda go the other way sometimes.

Not being argumentative - merely supportive of the decision to manufacture a single stack in the days of max-cap madness. It's only my opinion.

I love my Hi Powers and CZs; 75s&83s but would really dig a more diminutive single stack of them for most of my carry.

Kind of in the vein of some of the Beretta offerings in the past.

I like a single stack and spare combo.

Todd.
 
I liked my P225 just fine, carried it some a while back but the 8 round mags just didn't do it for me. For a 9mm that size, I wanted at least 14 and if I'm limiting myself to 8+1, I decided a 1911 was a much better option. That was just my though process anyhow.

Eventually dumped the P225 (a buddy just HAD TO HAVE IT), but if I were to find a good deal on one again in the future, I might pick up one again.

As to why? I think that was explained pretty well earlier, that was what they wanted at the time and 8 was "enough". Gotta figure the P229 was the solution you were asking for, as its almost the same size but double stack.
 
As noted in one of the responses above, SIG didn't build the P6 to sell to the public, but in response to a request from the Swiss government. The P6's are all military/police surplus weapons! The gun of choice until then had been the SIG P210 for many militaries and police organizations in that part of Europe, but the P210 -- an 8-round weapon -- had become too expensive. Switzerland was looking for a more-cost effective replacement. Had the SWISS requested 15-rounders, the P6 might have been a 15-rounder (like the P226 rather than like the P6/225 -- the P225 is a later commercial version of the P6.)

The P6 was based on the P220 design, subtly adjusted to handle 9mm rounds. (Early 220s were available in 9mm, but they are more rare.) I think the next NEW gun SIG built was double-stack, and that was probably stimulated by the introduction of the CZ-75 and Glock 17. (While the double-stack FN/BHP Hi-Power was used by some militaries and LEO units, most military and LEO agencies elsewhere in the world have tended to avoid SINGLE ACTION semi-autos.)
 
I may be wrong, but along with the Walther PPs that were being replaced for police use, the German police were also using the Walther P1 (P38) which also had a capacity of 8 rounds of 9mm. I guess they were fine with the capacity. I own a P1 and P6 and love shooting both.
 
As a side note, it's interesting to see a company like Kahr having some success scaling UP their single-stack compact pistols to become essentially modern versions of the old-fashioned single-stack autos. I mean the T, TP and CT series guns. If you compare, say, your Sig P225/P6 to a Kahr TP9, it's kind of like the Sig and a Glock had a love child.

SIG Sauer P225
Weight: 26.1 oz
Length: 7.1 in
Barrel length: 3.9 in
Width: 1.3 in
Height: 5.2 in
Caliber: 9mm
Action: Mechanically locked, recoil operated, hammer-fired (DA/SA or DAO)
Feed system: 8-round magazine
Sights: Bar-Dot configuration

Kahr TP9
Weight: 20.4 oz
Length: 6.5 in
Barrel length: 4.0 in
Width : .9 in
Height: 5.08 in
Caliber: 9mm
Action: Mechanically locked, recoil operated, striker-fired (DAO)
Feed system: 8-round magazine
Sights: Drift adjustable, white bar-dot combat sights

Oddly, the all-steel Kahr T9 is actually two onces heavier than the Sig!
 
Owlnmole said:
Oddly, the all-steel Kahr T9 is actually two onces heavier than the Sig!

The P220 had a forged alloy frame, not STEEL. And it seems that most of the other guns derived from the P220 (and the later 226) have alloy frames. That probably explains why the Kahr is a bit heavier.
 
They did make a P220ST with a steel frame, but I think he was still talking about the P225, which IS alloy.
 
Beretta 92FS has a standard magazine of 15 rounds. MecGar has figured out how to put 18 in the same size magazine... why hasn't Beretta followed suit?

They have. As mentioned earlier in the thread, Beretta has been making standard factory flush-fit 17-round magazines for the 90-series for about 10 years now. They introduced them with the now extinct 90-Two pistol, and they've been coming standard with the 92A1 models for the last couple of years. If the upcoming M9A3 does in fact hit the civilian market, it will apparently come with 17-round sand-resistant PVD coated mags.

Some others like Springfield XD and CZ are pushing 19 rounds in their pistols, which have grips no more wide than the Beretta 92FS.

Well, if you take the standard fat plastic grips off the Beretta, you'd see the frame is actually not very wide at all - certainly thinner than the polymer XD frame. Put those factory grips back on the Beretta though, and that's where it gets its "fat" reputation. I run Alumagrips on my Beretta 92FS, and they make a big difference in grip circumference and feel compared to the stock plastic grips.

Every time I wonder how my Sig 220 can justify holding only 8 rounds of .45 ACP, I just have to pick up my Glock 20SF (same exact size as the Glock 21, which holds 13 rounds of .45ACP) - and I get it. The 220 Carry Elite Dark, with its ultra-thin Hogue aluminum grips, feels like heaven in my hand, where the Glock literally feels like a 2x4.
 
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