Why a Shotgun for Home Defense?

[GregGry]

They don't seem to use shotguns either. They all have short AR15 carbines and MP5s ("weak" pistol round). The patrol officers all seem to have AR15 carbines now too. I'm no expert but I would say they use pistols way more than shotguns.

My firearms instructor told me the main reason officers don't grab the shotgun is because they are scared of it. I tend to believe that statement.

You CAN NOT take a shot if there is a hostage./QUOTE]

I disagree. My instructor for firearms demonstrated shooting a bad guy on a paper target, that was holding a person hostage. He shouldered the weapon as fast as he could and pulled the trigger, sure enough all of the pellets were directly on the head of the bad guy. Not only that but the entire class did it as well, and surprisingly almost everyone hit only the bad guy.

 

[mljdeckard]

And honestly, if you are SHOOTING AT AN INTRUDER IN YOUR HOUSE, are you really sweating a little drywall repair? Drywall is easy. Cleaning up blood really sucks.

 

[loosecannon]

The general term birdshot also includes the the large diameter number 2, 4, and 5 commonly used for turkey, coyotes, ducks. These loads are not to be sneezed at under 25 yards and have the advantage of not overpenetrating as buckshot would. To me birdshot refers to 7.5, 8, or 9 shot.

Many of us forget that we can miss with a shotgun if we do not aim precisely. Pointing is for wingshooting. I suggest aiming in a defensive situation.

Buckshot users might note that it shoots high. I fired several hundred buckshot rounds supplied by someone else. The paper target will prove this point.

Like the man said, in your house let the bad guy come to you and leave house clearing to the well-trained youngsters full of vinegar--or even better, let the police dog get him....its good for the dog and even better for the criminal.

 

[Matt-J2]

Not only that but the entire class did it as well, and surprisingly almost everyone hit only the bad guy.

Do you think they could have done it if you had been standing in front of the target, over the area representing the hostage?

There's a massive world of a difference in taking that shot at the range, at paper, than taking that shot when there's someone you care about involved. Not saying never do it, but it ain't nothing like being at the range.

 

[mljdeckard]

ALL training is done in the range. Just because it's all you have done doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. This is why there's no such thing as too much training. Even for people who HAVE done it in real life.

 

[Subsonic]

Try a little experiment. Take a half dozen full one gallon water jugs to the range and shoot them with #9 skeet loads. Certainly the "weakest" shotshell load available. After you shoot them from 15 feet, tell me it wouldn't be a big deal to get hit with a shotgun loaded with #9!

"It's gonna leave a mark on them, and it's going to be a big one".

Shoot safe, John

 

[C-grunt]

We had a guy here in Phx shot a couple weeks ago with a shotgun using birdshot (7 or 8, not larger like 4). Now I have heard that the little birdshot doesnt have very much penetration, but it still does A LOT of damage to the body. The guy was shot in the arm at the bicep and his arm was very close to being completely severed.

I personally wouldnt advocate using the smaller birdshot for HD, but I would feel to undergunned with it either.

 

[Girodin]

Try a little experiment. Take a half dozen full one gallon water jugs to the range and shoot them with #9 skeet loads. Certainly the "weakest" shotshell load available. After you shoot them from 15 feet, tell me it wouldn't be a big deal to get hit with a shotgun loaded with #9!

"It's gonna leave a mark on them, and it's going to be a big one".

If the make up of human body were similar to a 1 gallon milk jug full of water that would be illuminating as to the effectiveness of bird shot in self defense. However, they are rather dissimilar.

 

[Gunfighter123]

OK --- get a 10lb. ham with the bone in it --- at 7-10 yards , shoot it with some #4 hi-brass bird loads --- THEN hold it up to ANY PART of your body and you may rethink "weak birdshot"

As I posted --- out of 7 rds. in my tube , the FIRST and ONLY rd. is birdshot , then followed by 00Buck and slugs:banghead:


Edit --- things do NOT always go as planned , wife/kids could be in the bath etc. when a home invasion starts --- the first rd. of Hi-Vel #4 Birdshot Will/Should allow you to take ANOTHER shot with Buckshot and there is less danger of over penetration --- BUT , even "weak" Birdshot will still go thru two sheets of drywall.

BTW ---- about 10+ years aga , I DID do some testing on meat/ham etc.

 

[Youngster]

I tried the empty plastic jug thing a few years back thing with various light birdshot and found they wouldn't even penetrate the front face of the jugs without repeated hits until you got ridiculously close. Even #4 buckshot would see a pellet, sometimes two, fail to exit out of each load starting at only 15 yards or so.

 

[jakemccoy]

In response to the original post, I prefer a shotgun because a shotgun...

-is substantially more powerful than any handgun I have.

-is easier to aim and hit something, especially a moving target.

-may destroy a wall but I'm willing to vaporize a wall of my house if an intruder is in my house and trying to kill me.

-probably won't hurt a neighbor down the street.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I made the argument for an AR15 over a shotgun in my blog about a month ago. It's not that the shotgun is a bad weapon for home defense, but I just believe that the AR15 is better.

A shotgun is likely the second best choice IMO.

 

[Al Thompson]

you got ridiculously close

My longest shot in the house is about 12 yards, most common is ~4 yards. That's pretty close.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I would wager that a 410 shotgun even with their mediocre buckshot loadings is more ideal than a pistol for inside the house.

 

[heavyshooter]

My philosophy within these classes of firearms.
A pistol is meant to keep a criminal off of your person.
A shotgun is meant to keep a criminal out of your house.
A rifle is meant to keep that criminal off of your property.

U.S.SFC_RET this outlines my philosophy perfectly. I have a loaded revolver in the nightstand, but it is there as a means of fending off an intruder so I can get to my shotgun.

 

[heavyshooter]

The ambulance had picked up plenty of people who weren't dead but had some birdshot in them. While there may be plenty of people who've died from birdshot, there are also plenty who have lived. It's not reliable for self defense.

I do not believe that I am in the minority when I say that my objective is to stop an intruder without killing them. Yes, I want my cake and eat it too. I want safety without the burden of having killed someone and I do believe that a non-lethal round has stong defense potential. Because of this my first shot is #4 birdshot. My strong guess is that it is damaging enough (at HD distances) to stop him without necessarilly killing him. If it does not work, the subsequent shots are Federal Flite Control 00 Buckshot. After the first shot I plead with him to stay down. If he refuses he will force me into a most undesireable situation.

This is my second reason for choosing a shotgun. It allows me a broad variety of options from one magazine tube.

 

[dmarbell]

Shotgun lights

One poster said using a pistol leaves one hand free to use a light. Serious HD shotguns can be mounted with lights and/or lasers. A very bright light would have the added edge of temporarily blinding the bg.

Waking in a dark house, you would have dark-adapted eyesight. You might actually have an advantage over anyone who had been subject to light within the last 10-15 minutes. Bright scattering light in their direction might help confound, then the laser would make sure you hit the right spot.

Before you jump on me, the confounding effect would be measured in parts of a second.

After 6 to 8 rounds of buckshot, I would have to resort to .45 and .44 magnum rounds, along with 911.

I have neighbors all around. AK rounds would be too dangerous in my house.

Before I started shooting again two years ago, and joined this site and a couple of others, I would have been one to do "house clearing." I now would be strategically positioned in my bedroom (just the two of us here now), facing the one entranceway, with all available firepower on hand, after having dialed 911.

Danny

 

[mgkdrgn]

my first shot is #4 birdshot ... the subsequent shots ... 00 Buckshot.

Pretty much the same loading here, in both my 870 and the Judge.

I'll give 'em a chance ... but only one. I figure a load of #4 to the face will at least slow them down enough to get in the 2nd shot if they don't leave.

 

[PJR]

The reasons for a shotgun are well stated and a short 870 is my choice at least for now. I'm in a rural area where the greatest use is dispatching small varmints and my load out is #4 Buck up first and then slugs for everything else. I went face to face with a misbehaving black bear a few years ago which convinced me always having slugs in the gun is a good plan.

I've considered other options. A handgun doesn't have enough stopping power. A .223 rifle is appealing and I have one BUT shooting it inside the house isn't something I'd look forward to. A shotgun is bad enough but it is not as severe as a centerfire rifle round.

What I'm playing with now is a Marlin 1894C in 357 Magnum and it just might take over from my 870. The .357 is no slouch from an 18.5" barrel and with .38 Spl it is noticeably quiet. For a couple of reasons I haven't given up on my 870 yet but it is possible.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Marlin 1894C in 357 Magnum and it just might take over from my 870. The .357 is no slouch from an 18.5" barrel and with .38 Spl it is noticeably quiet. For a couple of reasons I haven't given up on my 870 yet but it is possible.

It might not "be a slouch", but it won't hold a candle to a slug (or even shot at HD ranges) out of your 870. Shoot a bear with 38 spl, if you don't hit him just right all you'll do is piss him off.

 

[Timthinker]

I can answer the OP's question in one word: power. A 12 gauge shotgun loaded with OO buck or slugs is one powerful weapon. Let me give one example in support of that proposition. Some years ago, I was a bit concerned while exploring some remote wilderness area that belonged to my family. That apprehension evaporated when I considered the fact I was carrying a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs. I felt as though I was armed with an elephant rifle. The moral to this story is simple. A properly loaded shotgun makes for a good "insurance policy".


Timthinker

 

[RyanM]

I should re-post this thing from Mossberg Magazine.

Some may offer that a load of birdshot with hundreds of pellets is a good load for "close quarters shooting." One ounce of #8 lead shot contains roughly 410 pellets, the equivalent load of #7 1/2 shot has slightly less. Yes, a load of birdshot is very loud and a contact shot would be devastating with the burning propellant gas doing a good amount of damage. However, a loud noise doesn't stop deadly felons and a contact shot is not something we can count on.

To test and see just how much penetration I could get from a birdshot load I went to my local grocery and purchased some meat. Fortunately, the butcher had packages of pork neck with bones and meat for a good price. (I couldn't bring myself to shoot up a nice piece of steak).

The meat target I created was secured in place with cellophane wrap on a cardboard backing. The density of the meat varied from 1.5 to 2 inches with bone mixed in. From a distance of 5 feet I fired a single round of #7 1/2 birdshot. The force split the cardboard and knocked the target over. Upon closer inspection I discovered that the meat had completely absorbed the majority of the shot. A few tiny pellets punched through the cardboard around the meat but none passed through.

What does this translate to?
At near contact range, a mere 5 feet, the #7 1/2 lead shot did not have the power to penetrate two inches of flesh. There is no way the shot would have reached deep inside an animal or human to shut down the heart, lungs, or central nervous system. Surely the wound would be horrible, but self-defense is not about inflicting horrible wounds, it is about stopping the bad guy from killing us.

 

[onebigelf]

I keep a handgun next to the bed in a nightstand. I also keep an Ithica 37 riot gun next to the bed loaded with slugs. Buckshot doesn't spread enough at inside the house ranges to matter and nobody and nothing is getting up from a 1oz lead hollowpoint. I live in the middle of nowhere, the cops are at least 45 minutes away IF they can find the house. The nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile. If there is a problem it is up to me to keep my family safe. Pistol is BACKUP. At the length of my hall I can hit a 3" target. I could do the same with the HP.... but did I mention that nothing is getting up from the 1oz hollowpoint? Flashlight is on the slide.

John

 

[Al Thompson]

The force split the cardboard and knocked the target over

Problem right there - movement. Try secureing that package of meat bucky and things will change.

I dropped several racoons with 8s - you have to be very close but it works.

Wonder why he didn't try a good dose of #4s?

 

[RX-178]

Okay, I'm going to do my part to set the record straight.

Shotguns are the home defense tool of choice because...

THEY ARE CHEAP!

With the possible exception of milsurp mosin nagants, a shotgun of some type will be the cheapest firearm you will find. There are break open single shot 12 gauges for around $60 bucks out there.

You will NOT find a handgun for that kind of price.