Why are Semi Auto Shotguns not used more often for HD?

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These kind of topics always result in a religious-like zealous (unfortunately, myself included at times). Yet, whatever you are confident with (irrespective of whether or not your 'mine is better than yours' argument holds water) is what you need to train with. Personally, I'll take my semi over my pump but in no way is that meant to disparage the pumps effectiveness--it's just that my blood-pressure seems to really get up there when I fear for my family's safety so I do not want to risk a short-stroke (which is MY Problem and not the pump's).

I always say the semi vs. pump debate reminds me of the age-old revolver vs. semi argument. I'll confess I am a semi-auto guy pertaining to handguns as well but again, I have massive respect for wheel guns (in fact, lately I have had an urge to purchase a revolver but preliminary price checks seem to show them to be quite expensive, but that may be just me).

However, here's the caveat; The aforementioned should obviously pertain to SD/HD but not LE/MIL whereby the semi seems a must IMHO.

-Cheers
 
Agreed^

Both are perfectly fine for the job, I just don't understand why the Semi auto isn't more common for HD.
 
To me for HD, the primary factor (as some others have already suggested) is the price. And it is really difficult to argue with the cost-effectiveness of the pump (though when you get up over the $450 mark, I would start thinking about a semi if cost is the sole factor in the equation).

-Cheers
 
Yet people carry $500 handguns on a normal basis.

Once again, I got my 1100 for $325 LNIB.
 
Once again, I got my 1100 for $325 LNIB.
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And that's terrific, but that sort of deal is not altogether common. If somebody feels the need for a SD long gun and chooses a shotgun, it's not likely that they'll wait until they can duplicate that sort of deal. In the FWIW department, my last 870 Express (bought five weeks ago) was $195 LNIB and most well-used 1100's in my neck of the woods sell for $400 or better. In fact, I just sold two 1100s within the last month and neither one sold for less than four Franklins.

Seems like the same two or three folk are absolutely determined to drive this dialog in their particular direction. I s'ppose that's OK, but it hardly adds diversity or additional dimension to the thread.

Just sayin'.....
 
I've got to say that when I started PSG, two things surprised me: how poor gun handling was at clay shooting grounds compared to at a PSG meet and how many times semi-autos failed to cycle properly.

By the way, I'd recommend taking up PSG if you want to get better at shooting buck and slug in your shotty. Also, it's great fun. :)

Regards,

Mark.
 
I am looking twords a gas operated auto. A very bad back being the reason. I am afraid a 12 gauge will really do some damage to what's left of my disks, as wad the manager of "Dicks", after his saleman had already called in the 4473, and I was about to pay. He sai he ov'erheard another custmer and I discussing our back issues, and apparantlly he also had a bad back. Now he said his was no where near as bad as mine, and he owned the gun I was buying , and selling it for that very reason, "mosberg 930 spx". We just stopped the sale right there. He said a gas gun would be the only way to go. And not trustig Saigas , I was thinking about a 20 gauge instead of a 12, and would like to buy american. So after 3 weeks of research, I am bach now looking for a 20 gauge gas gun, for hd. My marine sniper friend /advisor had suggested either a gas hun or a 223, so it's off to work I go again, I have every website that has anything to do with guns in my favorites and classic arms is selling saiga rifles for $299.Up to the 762x39, then the price climbs at that caliber the 308 and the shotguns, But you are still in the 4's.
 
I use my Saiga 12 with 20 round drum for Home Defense shotgun... and competition shooting... I LOVE IT!
 
Here is the gunny showing the progression of the shotgun. He fires a lever, early pump, and a mod 11 for time, the results are interesting. Having a mod 11 riot gun myself i can also say with hi brass loads it isnt exactly soft on the shoulder. Here is a youtube link. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu_T33omp_U
 
The sound is for my benefit. Should someone break in at night and cause me to be prepared to use my shotgun *I* want to be damn sure that there is a shell in the chamber. Am I psychologically going to be convinced that when I take off the safety that I remembered to load that round? I don't know.
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I know that if the gun is not in my safe it is loaded with a round in the chamber. This goes for my handguns, the M1 Carbine in the bedroom, and the shotgun in the bedroom. I have no need to check them because I know that is the condition I always keep them in and nobody has access to them but me.
 
Except for that one time you got distracted just prior to loading one and deviated from your standard, forgetting your 'loaded' shotgun wasn't loaded. :d

Easy! Easy! I'm just stirring the pot.
 
451 Detonics said:
I know that if the gun is not in my safe it is loaded with a round in the chamber. This goes for my handguns, the M1 Carbine in the bedroom, and the shotgun in the bedroom...
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Just out of curiosity, why do you have two long-guns in the bedroom both loaded for HD (I'm guessing for the carbine it's for distance--perhaps your property is large but I'm not sure leaving the sg for up-close HD)?

-Cheers
 
FIVETWOSEVEN said:
With a semi, all you do is pull the trigger, no need to pump and throw yourself off target.
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This.

Plus, I've owned 3 Remington 1100's, none of which I paid more than $400 for - I see them all the time at gun shows for $300-$500. Never had a misfeed in any of my 1100's with thousands of rounds put through them.

My current HD shotgun is my Benelli M1 super 90, which I got off of gunbroker for $900. It's an incredible wonderful joy to shoot, but to be honest - only slightly better than the 1100.

The whole thing about the sound of the slide on a pump scaring the burglar away is one of the oldest wives tales in the gun industry.
 
PT92 said:
Are they used in mint condition or 80-90%...?

-Cheers
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Those closer to $500 are minty fresh, those closer to $300 are less so, but I haven't seen any that look bad.

The 1100 is a very good looking gun, unless they have been beaten to death, they are usually nice to look at and reliable to shoot.
 
A pump action shotgun is like a single action revolver in the shooter has to preform a mechanical action between every shot. I shoot competivly and have seen more shotgun malfunctions due to human error with pumps than mechanical malfunctions with semi-autos. People under stress tend to short stroke pumps. A home invasion is probably more stressful than a friendly shooting match where the looser does not DIE, so unless you are very accustomed to shooting a pump you might have problem operating one when the target is shooting back.
 
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I have a Mossberg 930 SPX as my primary home defense shotgun now, only has around 200 shots through it, but flawless so far.

I eventually plan on picking up a Keltec KSG, which I assume will become my home defense shotty of choice, that is until they come out with a semi auto version.
 
I've read much of this thread and would summarize the Semi vs. Pump for HD as follows:

Semi-auto's:

- can be found for under $500 all day long (rem 1100's and Win 1400's used under $400 all day long)
- will fire repeatedly semi-auto, which is an advantage over all other actions
- are often poorly balanced as a HD weapon, YMMV
- can have reliability problems if not cleaned/maintained properly - YMMV
- may have issues with high power loads - tuning may be needed - YMMV

Pumps:

- cheapest option, can be found under $300 all day long
- generally more reliable because they are manually operated
- the sound of racking the action can be a deterrent to intruders all by itself
- the sound of racking the action can give your position away
- generally better weight balanced for HD - YMMV
- you may have short shucking problems with the pump - YMMV
 
Just out of curiosity, why do you have two long-guns in the bedroom both loaded for HD (I'm guessing for the carbine it's for distance--perhaps your property is large but I'm not sure leaving the sg for up-close HD)
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There are often two people in the bedroom...smiles...and yes...she is very good with a shotgun or the carbine.

As for the pros and cons of the semi...I maintain all my firearms, to me the 1100 is one of the best balanced shotguns made, and mine eats everything from 7/8 ounce loads through the low recoil buckshot loads I use without a hiccup. My 1100 is set up to hold 10+1 and there are 4 slugs stored in the stock. Is it more expensive initially? Yes it is but it is worth it to me. I know even if I lose use of one arm the 1100 I own can still dump 11 rounds as fast as I can pull the trigger. I use the best I can find rather than the cheapest because my life and the lives of family members means more to me than saving a few bucks. This is why I carry a HK P7M8 or a S&W 625 instead of a Taurus or Rossi...quality does matter.
 
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- are often poorly balanced as a HD weapon, YMMV
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I can understand balence and such with trap shooting but do you really need it for home defense? I've never quite understood that.
 
I can understand balence and such with trap shooting but do you really need it for home defense? I've never quite understood that.
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The excellent pointing and handling qualities of a typical shotgun are one of its main advantages over other types of firearms. It won't probably won't matter much if you can expect to keep the thing trained on a choke point but I'll take a great pointing shotgun over one that's not in any event.
 
Why is this an issue with only shotguns as a defensive arm while no one thinks about the balence of carbines?
 
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