Why are so many gun dealers dishonest?
- Thread starter coosbaycreep
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SomeDude
Member
If you fell you feel they're trying to rip you off the best revenge is to spend your money somewhere else.
Mascoma
Member
Life is rough, get use to it and stay informed, research before you buy.
A fool and his money soon part
If it looks to good to be true it usually is.
A fool and his money soon part
If it looks to good to be true it usually is.
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SCKimberFan
Member
And if the dealer closes his shop and releases his ffl, where you gonna have it shipped to? Why is everyone opposed to someone making a profit? That is how they are able to stay in business. If it is fair to both, it is a good deal. If it is not, it's not a good deal for one or the other. Pretty simple actually.
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Plenty of FFLs out there besides some gun shop trying to stiff people. I refuse to support gun shops that are rip offs. Of course this panic buying is keeping them in business unfortunately.
Just a quick snapshot of some of the firearms I purchased in 2008 (some are still clearing Form 4s and have not yet arrived)... Guess how many rude/piss-poor gun shops got my $$? Zero. I refuse to do business with rude or non-existent customer service or folks that have jacked up prices and so I vote with my wallet.
Here is a good resource for folks who need to find an FFL in their area to have their guns delivered to.
http://www.fflfinder.com/
Fat Boy
Member
Boy, there is some heavy duty mud being slung here....
I am sorry to say that in my lifetime the retail sales industry has generally gone from employing knowledgeable, ethical people to hiring whoever they can get for a cheap, part-time wage. If you don't believe that, go to Home Depot and ask the young person (if you can pry them away from their conversation with some other employee) for a specific product or some advice on what to use in a specific situation and watch the reaction. As opposed to going to Sears, Roebuck and Co. 40 years ago and asking the hardware salesmen the same question.
Unfortunately, good customer service seems to be gone overall in our world, and it extends to the world of gunning.
I am amazed by how some shops offer used guns for sale that they haven't even cleaned...it seems to me that at a minimum they cold wipe off the gun, run a patch or two down the barrel, blow out the dust, etc.
Having said all that, not all dealers/shops follow this model; some truly knowledgeable, ethical dealers are out there- when you find one, stick with them. Otherwise, in say a gun show environment, know your product, take your time, and CAVEAT EMPTOR
I am sorry to say that in my lifetime the retail sales industry has generally gone from employing knowledgeable, ethical people to hiring whoever they can get for a cheap, part-time wage. If you don't believe that, go to Home Depot and ask the young person (if you can pry them away from their conversation with some other employee) for a specific product or some advice on what to use in a specific situation and watch the reaction. As opposed to going to Sears, Roebuck and Co. 40 years ago and asking the hardware salesmen the same question.
Unfortunately, good customer service seems to be gone overall in our world, and it extends to the world of gunning.
I am amazed by how some shops offer used guns for sale that they haven't even cleaned...it seems to me that at a minimum they cold wipe off the gun, run a patch or two down the barrel, blow out the dust, etc.
Having said all that, not all dealers/shops follow this model; some truly knowledgeable, ethical dealers are out there- when you find one, stick with them. Otherwise, in say a gun show environment, know your product, take your time, and CAVEAT EMPTOR
SCKimberFan
Member
I said nothing about gun shops that are rip-offs other than:
As my earlier post said:
Let's not put all gun shops into the same bucket. There a good ones and there are bad ones. Eventually the bad ones will change or go out of business.
I think a lot of them just throw out BS when they don't know the answer to a question.
I was in a pawnshop this morning. They had a nice Colt Huntsman for sale. Nice, except the last 1.5" of the barrel was missing blueing. It looked like some kind of chemical has been spilled on it. Kind of splattered. I asked the woman behind the counter what happened to the barrel. I figured she didn't really know but figured I would ask.
She said "That's what a holster will do to a pistol. I see it all the time." I told her it was splattered like a chemical got on it. Holster wear is more even and shiny. I know what holster wear looks like. She said that was probably what the owner used to get the rust off.
So, I guess she was saying holster carry causes rust in certain areas ? I don't know what she was saying to tell you the truth. I just nodded and left.
I was in a pawnshop this morning. They had a nice Colt Huntsman for sale. Nice, except the last 1.5" of the barrel was missing blueing. It looked like some kind of chemical has been spilled on it. Kind of splattered. I asked the woman behind the counter what happened to the barrel. I figured she didn't really know but figured I would ask.
She said "That's what a holster will do to a pistol. I see it all the time." I told her it was splattered like a chemical got on it. Holster wear is more even and shiny. I know what holster wear looks like. She said that was probably what the owner used to get the rust off.
So, I guess she was saying holster carry causes rust in certain areas ? I don't know what she was saying to tell you the truth. I just nodded and left.
The gun dealers I do business with are honest, reliable and knowledgeable folks. No one of them knows everything, of course. I know more about some things than they do. But each of them knows more about some things than I do.
I'm sure that they are plenty of unscrupulous jerks in the gun business, just as there are in all walks of life. If you find one, don't do business with him. But then again, I don't always believe everyone who criticizes a particular dealer; there are also plenty of shady customers who don't know much about anything themselves.
I'm sure that they are plenty of unscrupulous jerks in the gun business, just as there are in all walks of life. If you find one, don't do business with him. But then again, I don't always believe everyone who criticizes a particular dealer; there are also plenty of shady customers who don't know much about anything themselves.
earlthegoat2
Member
Maybe its not them who dont know what they are talking about.....maybe its just you.
Autopistola
Member
If they have a pitch (other than that's a nice gun) it's probably not true.
If they say is "rare" or a "special edition" to justify a high price, approach with skepticism.
If you ask specific questions and they don't know the answer they might just make something in an attempt to please you.
If they'e price is outrageous, move on. If it's not, make an offer that you would pay.
Oh, and I've bought plenty of used guns with dirty barrels.:banghead:
If they say is "rare" or a "special edition" to justify a high price, approach with skepticism.
If you ask specific questions and they don't know the answer they might just make something in an attempt to please you.
If they'e price is outrageous, move on. If it's not, make an offer that you would pay.
Oh, and I've bought plenty of used guns with dirty barrels.:banghead:
azhunter122
Member
Well take a look at some of the question posted online, most online know a thing or two about guns however for your average joe gun owner probably does not know as much as many of us do about guns. When they go asking a gun dealer their question the gun dealer is going to tell them just what they want to hear no matter what that may be and for us it doesn't work as well so we can see the lie. This exists in many industries not just guns however this is what we care about so it is brought to our attention. Look at salesman of all kinds and then say that gun dealers are dishonest.
JR47
Member
Older leather holsters used a different method of tanning, and could cause rust if the gun was left in them. Especially if the holster got damp. Now, wearing the holster when it was damp would "pool" the moisture near the barrel end, even after you took the holster off. So, it's quite possible that was what she was talking about, but didn't explain it well enough for you to understand.
Part of the problem, of course, is that you're mixing generations. Things that were common knowledge to those growing up in the 50's and 60's aren't to the children of the 80's and 90's. Older guns, and accessories, from before then, are even more obscure today.
Most of the FFLs that inhabit the gun shows around here have a shop where they do most of their business. You CAN go see them on Monday. Prices are driven by more than the next table, too. many dealers have at least one employee helping them, and on the clock. The tables cost money, the more tables, the more money. Then, there's the fact, especially today, that a gun that was sitting in your inventory for the last four months cost you less than a gun that just came in. Quite a bit less. So, the EXACT same gun COULD be 25% higher, or more, simply because of when you bought it.
I don't ask for the "history" of a gun. I look at the weapon, and determine condition as much as possible, and will agree to a price, or offer what I think it's worth. The seller, be it an individual, or a dealer, can take it, or leave it. IF they ask what I found wrong, I'll be honest, and tell them. Both of us tend to leave in a civil manner that way.
If I don't know anything about the gun, I'll go out to my car, and look at my Blue Book. If you don't know enough to actually quote REAL prices, you have no business negotiating. Too many people decide what a gun is worth by looking at others, on other tables, the Internet, or, I swear, an Ouija Board, then, low-ball the dealer. After a couple of days of this, their being short is quite understandable. Half of what you get is what they've received already in banter.
I am a friend of Bill Ricca. He's a pretty well-known authority on older Ordnance Records, and tries to have a selection of 1903, M1 Garand, and M1 Carbine parts at shows that he attends. Spending an hour talking to him was enlightening. Part of the time was him giving other people information on the guns, and whether the parts that another vendor had were properly priced. Another part was in listening to "experts" blather on about how they "knew" where to find rare (mostly non-existent) parts, and how much cheaper they were than anything that he had. Then, we had those who saw a commercial 30 round M1 Carbine mag on another table, for $40.00, but his USGI mags were $100.00, and he was ripping off the customers. Sound familiar? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Especially when a key-board is close to hand.
coyotehitman
member
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- Dec 29, 2007
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- 558
I do whatever I can to prevent folks from buying from bottom feeders.
6_gunner
Member
Most of the gun shops I go to are staffed by people who are friendly, knowledgable and helpful.
I prefer the locally-owned Mom and Pop's-type places. They seem to make more of an effort to establish a relationship with customers than the big chain stores. They are also generally staffed by someone who grew up in the business, so they tend to know their stuff pretty well.
Most of the bad experiences I've had have been at pawn shops. I've run into a few bad eggs at gun shows, but they were the minority.
I've often run into people who don't know nearly as much as they think they do, but I chalk that up to inexperience.
There has only been one time when I caught someone in flat-out lie. I mentioned that on another thread. A guy tried to pass of an old 1911 as stainless steel when it was clearly just missing most of its blueing.
I prefer the locally-owned Mom and Pop's-type places. They seem to make more of an effort to establish a relationship with customers than the big chain stores. They are also generally staffed by someone who grew up in the business, so they tend to know their stuff pretty well.
Most of the bad experiences I've had have been at pawn shops. I've run into a few bad eggs at gun shows, but they were the minority.
I've often run into people who don't know nearly as much as they think they do, but I chalk that up to inexperience.
There has only been one time when I caught someone in flat-out lie. I mentioned that on another thread. A guy tried to pass of an old 1911 as stainless steel when it was clearly just missing most of its blueing.
Phydeaux642
Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2007
- Messages
- 1,886
One of the shops I go to makes me laugh but it's not because he's dishonest - he's just full of it. On used guns he doesn't want to deal at all because he swears he's not making any money. I watched him buy a shotgun the other day for $100. It's now on the shelf for $249. Sounds like a darn good profit to me. I'm in retail sales and would be feeling pretty good about that kind of money on a used item.
I steer clear of the gun shops that have burned me or tried to burn me. I also try to avoid the dealers who try to use scare tactics on their customers. So that means I can only frequent about 5 gun shops in a 250 mile radius. Otherwise it would be over 50. But if I can go down town and buy a M&P 45 for 525.00 out the door why would anyone in their right mind drive an hour each way and pay someone else 625.00 plus tax only to hear "we’re still cheaper than Bass Pro's sale price!"
At a table at a gun show you are no more apt to find a dishonest dealer than at a table at a baseball card show or comic show or anything. They want the money that day and have short term goals. At a gun store you will have better luck getting an honest person because they will still be there tomorrow and want your repeat business.
cmccmc
Member
Why are you buying at a gun show?
Have you not heard? There are NO DEALs at a gun show.
Occasionally you will find one on a Sunday cause someone doesn't felling like lugging it around.
FFLs lie just like every body else. No more, no less. Find a better dealer.
Have you not heard? There are NO DEALs at a gun show.
Occasionally you will find one on a Sunday cause someone doesn't felling like lugging it around.
FFLs lie just like every body else. No more, no less. Find a better dealer.
searcher451
Member
I don't buy into the original premise. I've know a dozen gun dealers personally through the years and never found them to be anything but decent, honorable men who were professional and threated their customers well. I've also done a couple of dozen deals with folks via boards and forums such as this one and have never run into a problem to speak of: no one lied or cheated or stole or acted poorly (one guy did inflate the condition of a gun once, but not by much and not enough to squash the deal).
My experience is that most all of the folks in the business are good, stand-up people who do the right thing.
My experience is that most all of the folks in the business are good, stand-up people who do the right thing.
SCKimberFan
Member
+1 jr47
coosbaycreep
Member
my Quote:
I don't always volunteer info that might keep something from selling
freakshow10mm:
Hypocritical statement.
my Quote:
The way I see it, if it's mine, I can ask as much as I want, for whatever reason I want, and if the buyer doesn't like it, then oh well.
freakshow10mm:
This is the same damn thing you are saying about FFLs. This is my price, pay it or walk. Just because they are an FFL it's wrong for them to do this right? It's called the free market. Google that once.
My statement wasn't hypocritical at all. If someone asks me a question about something that is wrong or doesn't look right, I tell them as much as I know about whatever it is that they're asking about. If someone is looking at something I have for sale, especially if they're an "expert", sometimes I'll just let them look for themselves to see what's wrong generally. I'm not talking about purposely not disclosing info about problems that can't be seen without actually shooting a gun or something. Actually, I'm having a hard time remembering the last time I didn't volunteer any negative info on something I sold, although I'm sure I did. You can even look at some of the ads I've had on THR, and if anyone is ever going to accuse me of trying to rip someone off by lying, then I'm the worst liar that ever lived. My thing is I don't like the way a lot of dealers will purposely lie right to my face about an obvious problem a gun has when I ask them about it, but maybe I'm just stupid for expecting more people to have some sort of morals and ethics.
About what I said about prices, it's one thing to set your price for whatever reason, it's another to tell lies about WHY your price is so high. I'm talking about the people who try and pass off sporterized milsurps at ridiculous prices by calling them "custom", when all they actually are is a bubba'd mauser with a cheap plastic stock and the barrel cut down. Or people who will tell someone that an ordinary mosin 91/30 is an incredibly rare rifle, and that's why they want $250 for the same gun Big 5 is selling for $79. That's the kind of thing that irks me about people who price things like that. If they're just greedy and trying to make a huge profit (which is perfectly understandable, although it won't get them my business), then good for them, but don't make up lies about the history of the gun that you know are false in hopes of making a sale. How about you google honesty?
When I started this thread, I wasn't bashing ALL gun dealers. Unfortunately however, I've encountered a lot more liars in the gun business than any other retail field, with the exception of car dealers. I know there's honest gun dealers, but I've never encountered so many lying, full of crap, blowhards in my entire life than I have at gunshows, and sometimes gun shops too.
I just don't see why more dealers don't just tell the truth, and if they don't want to tell the truth, then just play stupid and say you don't know when someone asks you a question, instead of concocting some BS story to try and make a sale.
I don't always volunteer info that might keep something from selling
freakshow10mm:
Hypocritical statement.
my Quote:
The way I see it, if it's mine, I can ask as much as I want, for whatever reason I want, and if the buyer doesn't like it, then oh well.
freakshow10mm:
This is the same damn thing you are saying about FFLs. This is my price, pay it or walk. Just because they are an FFL it's wrong for them to do this right? It's called the free market. Google that once.
My statement wasn't hypocritical at all. If someone asks me a question about something that is wrong or doesn't look right, I tell them as much as I know about whatever it is that they're asking about. If someone is looking at something I have for sale, especially if they're an "expert", sometimes I'll just let them look for themselves to see what's wrong generally. I'm not talking about purposely not disclosing info about problems that can't be seen without actually shooting a gun or something. Actually, I'm having a hard time remembering the last time I didn't volunteer any negative info on something I sold, although I'm sure I did. You can even look at some of the ads I've had on THR, and if anyone is ever going to accuse me of trying to rip someone off by lying, then I'm the worst liar that ever lived. My thing is I don't like the way a lot of dealers will purposely lie right to my face about an obvious problem a gun has when I ask them about it, but maybe I'm just stupid for expecting more people to have some sort of morals and ethics.
About what I said about prices, it's one thing to set your price for whatever reason, it's another to tell lies about WHY your price is so high. I'm talking about the people who try and pass off sporterized milsurps at ridiculous prices by calling them "custom", when all they actually are is a bubba'd mauser with a cheap plastic stock and the barrel cut down. Or people who will tell someone that an ordinary mosin 91/30 is an incredibly rare rifle, and that's why they want $250 for the same gun Big 5 is selling for $79. That's the kind of thing that irks me about people who price things like that. If they're just greedy and trying to make a huge profit (which is perfectly understandable, although it won't get them my business), then good for them, but don't make up lies about the history of the gun that you know are false in hopes of making a sale. How about you google honesty?
When I started this thread, I wasn't bashing ALL gun dealers. Unfortunately however, I've encountered a lot more liars in the gun business than any other retail field, with the exception of car dealers. I know there's honest gun dealers, but I've never encountered so many lying, full of crap, blowhards in my entire life than I have at gunshows, and sometimes gun shops too.
I just don't see why more dealers don't just tell the truth, and if they don't want to tell the truth, then just play stupid and say you don't know when someone asks you a question, instead of concocting some BS story to try and make a sale.
Cannonball888
Member
May be Korsakov’s Syndrome.
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I loves sourdough
Buck Snort
Member
I've never had a problem with gun dealers being dishonest. Of course, I buy most of my guns from local gun shops.
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