Gun show dealers are so polite!
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eastwood44mag
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I remember a dealer just glaring at me, because I didn't see his "no touching" sign. The one of a kind item was an old, rusted, piece of poop fishing device, apparently used to hold a fish while removing a hook. You'd think I'd have wiped myself with a Krieghoff. He was 3X higher on used junk than on new retail, and we just decided he must be so well off that he didn't need our business.
35Rem
Member
It's a gun SHOW. If you want it to be a store, then put the guns behind the table.
If I can't touch, I won't buy.
It's pretty crappy, the attitudes that dealers get. If you don't want it touched, don't put it in reach.
Anyone ever pick up a gun to see if it will tell you a story? (is that weird?)
Look down the sights, to see if you can see what the original owner saw? Smell the oil?
How many have shouldered an original Marlin 410 lever action shotgun, not the new monstrosity, the original from the '30's? I have, and at a gun SHOW. Never seen one before, in 20 years of going. It was gorgeous, and felt so good. You won't get that at a gun store, which is what the dealers want it to be.
Go ahead, run off more future gun nuts with your bad attitudes.
If I can't touch, I won't buy.
It's pretty crappy, the attitudes that dealers get. If you don't want it touched, don't put it in reach.
Anyone ever pick up a gun to see if it will tell you a story? (is that weird?)
Look down the sights, to see if you can see what the original owner saw? Smell the oil?
How many have shouldered an original Marlin 410 lever action shotgun, not the new monstrosity, the original from the '30's? I have, and at a gun SHOW. Never seen one before, in 20 years of going. It was gorgeous, and felt so good. You won't get that at a gun store, which is what the dealers want it to be.
Go ahead, run off more future gun nuts with your bad attitudes.
3 simple rules
1) ask
2) "sir" is always appreciated when youa sk for address the guy before you know his name.
3) Don't say you don't have money. Tell them you are researching for a future buy, and make a point of asking for his card.
Both sides are doing sales. the dealer is selling his wares, but you're also selling the fact that the dealer can trust you for the 30 seconds or more fiddling with his stuff.
1) ask
2) "sir" is always appreciated when youa sk for address the guy before you know his name.
3) Don't say you don't have money. Tell them you are researching for a future buy, and make a point of asking for his card.
Both sides are doing sales. the dealer is selling his wares, but you're also selling the fact that the dealer can trust you for the 30 seconds or more fiddling with his stuff.
Yep you and the five thousand other patrons of the gun show. Ever wonder how much wear you would get on a nice gun with five thousand people picking it up and setting it down ?? Why not lever the action about ten times too or spin the cylinder.
Because people only see themselves as the center of the world they have no respect for another mans property. Next time you go to a show take your favorite gun with you for the dealer to hold while you fondle his stuff.
jj
I personally know the dealer in question here. In fact, I helped him for a year or so doing shows. For those of you that have never worked a gun show, from the back side of a table, you have no idea what you're talking about. First off, those tables are expensive, and you are there to sell, thats the whole point. You would not believe some of the things I've seen happen. I've seen a guy drag the other guns (because they are all tied together), across the top of a beautiful Weatherby shotgun (and scratch it), just so he could play with the "cool" Mossberg pistol grip. I've seen people drop guns in the floor, and god knows everybody wants to pick up a revolver and dry fire it 35 times. Which seems harmless, but some folks dont want a revolver with a cylinder ring already on it. That got so bad at one show, I had to run zip ties through the cylinders to stop it. When the 500 S&W's were first showing up, everybody and their brother wanted to run up, and stick their finger in the barrel.
Working a pretty big gun show, with 2 people can be stressful, but by yourself it becomes a nightmare. You guys are sitting there judging this person, by what one person said. Well did you know, when someone fills out a 4473 form, you have to sit there and nit pick that fork very closely, to find any errors. Because if the ATF finds those errors for you, its big $$$$ out of your pocket. You have to pay attention to make sure addresses match, licenses arent expired, birthdays, etc etc etc. While doing this one on one with somebody is a piece of cake, try doing it with 5 or 6 people standing around talking to you wanting to buy also. Then add in trying to watch "tacti-cool" kids playing with the assault rifles dreaming of their Counter Strike performances. While trying to call these forms into the state police for the background checks.
Those guns are not cheap, even for a dealer, and if someone scratches one, its just a loss for you. You have to be careful at a gun show. So much is going on, its hard to watch it all, and guns, along with accesories do get stolen. I know he meant absolutely no harm, by looking at that FS2000, but atleast have the courtesy to tell the dealer that you arent in the market, but your dad is, and you are waiting for him to catch up with you. Something along those lines.
In response to what was said about if they arent under glass cases.... Cases are bulky, and hard to move, and would be tough for one person to deal with. So the next time you go to a show, pretend you are at Wal-Marts sporting goods, and ask to handle the guns, just like if they were in a case. It's a courtsey thing folks, grow up.
That paticular dealer, happens to be a nice guy. He also has a nice range at his shop, that some of you SW VA's should check out if you are ever in the area.
Working a pretty big gun show, with 2 people can be stressful, but by yourself it becomes a nightmare. You guys are sitting there judging this person, by what one person said. Well did you know, when someone fills out a 4473 form, you have to sit there and nit pick that fork very closely, to find any errors. Because if the ATF finds those errors for you, its big $$$$ out of your pocket. You have to pay attention to make sure addresses match, licenses arent expired, birthdays, etc etc etc. While doing this one on one with somebody is a piece of cake, try doing it with 5 or 6 people standing around talking to you wanting to buy also. Then add in trying to watch "tacti-cool" kids playing with the assault rifles dreaming of their Counter Strike performances. While trying to call these forms into the state police for the background checks.
Those guns are not cheap, even for a dealer, and if someone scratches one, its just a loss for you. You have to be careful at a gun show. So much is going on, its hard to watch it all, and guns, along with accesories do get stolen. I know he meant absolutely no harm, by looking at that FS2000, but atleast have the courtesy to tell the dealer that you arent in the market, but your dad is, and you are waiting for him to catch up with you. Something along those lines.
In response to what was said about if they arent under glass cases.... Cases are bulky, and hard to move, and would be tough for one person to deal with. So the next time you go to a show, pretend you are at Wal-Marts sporting goods, and ask to handle the guns, just like if they were in a case. It's a courtsey thing folks, grow up.
That paticular dealer, happens to be a nice guy. He also has a nice range at his shop, that some of you SW VA's should check out if you are ever in the area.
Gunnerpalace
Member
Tang great response, next time I go to a show I will do this see how it works out.
Funny, I would think telling a person "get lost and don't waste my time" wouldn't qualify someone as "a nice guy."
As for all the risks assumed when you go to a gun show... WHY IS HE TAKING THE RISKS THEN? Obviously he must be aware than his nice Weatherby might get scratched while there, why bother? Why deal with the people who don't want to buy? Just tell them all to get lost and hide in your own shop/range.
Also, if you're worried about not being able to handle all the responsibility alone, why are you going there without some employees?
Honestly, this is simply rude, unprofessional behavior. Dress it up however you want, but telling someone- "if you're not buying, get lost" is foolish and rude.
Obviously no one begins by shopping around, everyone who is serious comes to buy immediately...
This is one of my pet peeves.
I do not and will not patronize a dealer who has do not touch signs. If you do not want customers, who paid money to enter your temporary "store", to handle the merchandise then stay home or place your goods out of reach.
If I go into a gunshop and want to look at a firearm and the owner gives me crap both me and my money are leaving. This is a business and I am the customer.
If I set up at a gun show I expect customers to look at the merchandise. I do not expect someone to shop with their eyes only. I will not buy a gun without knowing what the feel and fit are.
I do not and will not patronize a dealer who has do not touch signs. If you do not want customers, who paid money to enter your temporary "store", to handle the merchandise then stay home or place your goods out of reach.
If I go into a gunshop and want to look at a firearm and the owner gives me crap both me and my money are leaving. This is a business and I am the customer.
If I set up at a gun show I expect customers to look at the merchandise. I do not expect someone to shop with their eyes only. I will not buy a gun without knowing what the feel and fit are.
CaptMac
Member
Always Two Sides To A Story
I know the gun dealer in question and I have been around when he was dealing with folks and I have never seen him be anything but polite. In fact I guess next time I am in his neck of the woods I will buy a little Colt I have been looking at and fondling, without buying until now.
I know the gun dealer in question and I have been around when he was dealing with folks and I have never seen him be anything but polite. In fact I guess next time I am in his neck of the woods I will buy a little Colt I have been looking at and fondling, without buying until now.
35Rem
Member
You know...I knew a dealer in Ft. Myers, FL that didn't mind you handling his stuff. And he sold a LOT of guns. Great guy.
In Fact, Don Coate, Coate of Arms.
He would hand you stuff when you walked in the door. Hey, check out this. He got "it". He knew people wouldn't buy if they didn't touch.
Myself, like many others here, keep your "prizes" if I can't touch them.
In Fact, Don Coate, Coate of Arms.
He would hand you stuff when you walked in the door. Hey, check out this. He got "it". He knew people wouldn't buy if they didn't touch.
Myself, like many others here, keep your "prizes" if I can't touch them.
Brad Johnson
Member
Rereading this thread proves that some people are truly as selfish, self-centered, and childish as I had presumed. That goes for both sides of the table. The foot-stomping, righteous indignation, and "all about me"-ness in several of the posts is sorely disappointing.
I would expect it from five year olds on a playground but to see "responsible" adults act like that makes me shake my head. It's sad.
Brad
I would expect it from five year olds on a playground but to see "responsible" adults act like that makes me shake my head. It's sad.
Brad
rabbitridge
Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2007
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- 1
It was me
I am the dealer that has stirred up the fuss. The conversation posted is not what I remember. No mention of looking for an AR or his father. He just started playing with the FS2000. I do not have signs post not to handle because when I have used them they did little if any good. People will actually move them off the weapon to pick it up. I asked him if he was ready for the paperwork after he sat it down and was reaching for the OD green one, he said no he was not planing on buying it. I asked him if he had enough to money to pay for it he said no. One of the guys I was working with on a trade asked if he had a credit card. I told him if he couldnt pay for then dont play with it. He turned and walked away. Even calling me an A#$hole in a voice level I could not hear but the dealer beside me did.
If he is offended so be it. I hate it turned out like that but if he had dropped it or damaged something-else. Who would be responsible? Does it have to cost me because he could not or would not? Some will say that is a chance I take setting up at the show. It is and stopping damage before it happens saves me and allows the real buyer save to money. Just like shoplifting the cost of the damage is carried over to the price of other things to make up the loss.
How many of the people out there have bought a weapon at the gun show and when the dealer went to get it from the table asked if that was the only one they had or if they had more. Why is the display not good enough or is it that you dont one that has been played with. As with one guy this past weekend saying that the display was coverd with finger prints (his finger prints). If the weapon or the box gets beat up from the guy just looking would you still want it?
I try to be nice to all, sometimes I am short with some. I am sorry if it offends. I am in the business of firearms sales, my prices are competitve and I try to give the customer the best deal in the show. I like to deal with people actually wanting to buy not just kick tires but I have to take the good with the bad. For those who understand myside Thank You. For those who dont, think, how it would be if was yours and it was you at the show trying to sale them. How would you react?
I am not a great salesman and I wish I had the gift but I do know how to respect another persons property.
I am the dealer that has stirred up the fuss. The conversation posted is not what I remember. No mention of looking for an AR or his father. He just started playing with the FS2000. I do not have signs post not to handle because when I have used them they did little if any good. People will actually move them off the weapon to pick it up. I asked him if he was ready for the paperwork after he sat it down and was reaching for the OD green one, he said no he was not planing on buying it. I asked him if he had enough to money to pay for it he said no. One of the guys I was working with on a trade asked if he had a credit card. I told him if he couldnt pay for then dont play with it. He turned and walked away. Even calling me an A#$hole in a voice level I could not hear but the dealer beside me did.
If he is offended so be it. I hate it turned out like that but if he had dropped it or damaged something-else. Who would be responsible? Does it have to cost me because he could not or would not? Some will say that is a chance I take setting up at the show. It is and stopping damage before it happens saves me and allows the real buyer save to money. Just like shoplifting the cost of the damage is carried over to the price of other things to make up the loss.
How many of the people out there have bought a weapon at the gun show and when the dealer went to get it from the table asked if that was the only one they had or if they had more. Why is the display not good enough or is it that you dont one that has been played with. As with one guy this past weekend saying that the display was coverd with finger prints (his finger prints). If the weapon or the box gets beat up from the guy just looking would you still want it?
I try to be nice to all, sometimes I am short with some. I am sorry if it offends. I am in the business of firearms sales, my prices are competitve and I try to give the customer the best deal in the show. I like to deal with people actually wanting to buy not just kick tires but I have to take the good with the bad. For those who understand myside Thank You. For those who dont, think, how it would be if was yours and it was you at the show trying to sale them. How would you react?
I am not a great salesman and I wish I had the gift but I do know how to respect another persons property.
Kevin108
Member
If you're like me, it's BEST to go look without money. Otherwise you don't know what you'll come home with.
If you're a dealer, remember just because he's not a customer today doesn't mean he won't be a customer later. No need to burn any bridges. And on top of that common sense says that if you put something out for the public to handle and inspect, the inevitable dings and discounts are a cost of doing business. Also you can go to hell with your 3% credit card fees. That too is a cost of doing business.
But I also understand that some customers are not worth any price. It's definitely a tough balance. It's been a few years since I worked in a retail environment. I can definitely remember some regulars we used to have. Anybody in retail know who I'm talking about. They all have the same name, "Oh no, not him again!" ;-)
If you're a dealer, remember just because he's not a customer today doesn't mean he won't be a customer later. No need to burn any bridges. And on top of that common sense says that if you put something out for the public to handle and inspect, the inevitable dings and discounts are a cost of doing business. Also you can go to hell with your 3% credit card fees. That too is a cost of doing business.
But I also understand that some customers are not worth any price. It's definitely a tough balance. It's been a few years since I worked in a retail environment. I can definitely remember some regulars we used to have. Anybody in retail know who I'm talking about. They all have the same name, "Oh no, not him again!" ;-)
coosbaycreep
Member
I handled about 30 guns at ONE table alone yesterday and the day before at a local gun show. The dealer told everyone walking by to feel free to pick up whatever they want. He didn't hover over me or look down his nose at me like I was trying to steal his pot of gold or checking out his wife either. I bought two guns from him. The other dealers were all snooty and obviously not happy people. I, as I'm sure the vast majority of people at gun shows, are usually careful when handling firearms. I ask before I pick something up, but if I can tell that the dealer is a jerk who doesn't want someone even touching his guns till they're paid for, I won't do business with them.
I agree with the comment that today's window shopper might be tomorrow's customer. I also understand the dealers being concerned with people damaging their guns, but I think the increase in business from being a friendly dealer who allows people relative freedom to check stuff out would offset the wear and decrease in value of the guns being handled. Every show I've been to, or any other kind of shop, sale, or etc., where people were allowed to handle stuff they might be interested in usually sells more than the dealers that are uptight about people wanting to pick their stuff up and fondle it.
I agree with the comment that today's window shopper might be tomorrow's customer. I also understand the dealers being concerned with people damaging their guns, but I think the increase in business from being a friendly dealer who allows people relative freedom to check stuff out would offset the wear and decrease in value of the guns being handled. Every show I've been to, or any other kind of shop, sale, or etc., where people were allowed to handle stuff they might be interested in usually sells more than the dealers that are uptight about people wanting to pick their stuff up and fondle it.
Gunnerpalace
Member
I now am going to change my opinion of not buying to I would buy (if I could Iam not in the same state) on the basis of one thing...you came and explained the situation that speaks volumes to me.
iiibdsiil
Member
What a mess.
Just because he didn't have any money with him doesn't mean anything. A lot of people don't bring money to gun shows because they know they can't control their spending. He might have picked it up and gone "Damn, I like the way this feels. Hey dad, can you spot me some cash until I can get to the bank?"
As for lying about having a credit card, of course you are going to say you don't have any money. Good salesman are like bums. Even if you don't have any money, they will still hound you because they know you have a nickel in your pocket. You by default answer "I don't have any money" because you don't want to be spending it. It's the salesmans job to change your mind about that. Everyone can come up with some money when they want something bad enough.
Most of the gun shows I have been to have a cable that runs through EVERY frigin gun on the table. I'm honestly not even sure how they show a gun when they need to. I remember one time when I was real little, like 8 or 9, pops and I went to a gun show. The guy undid the cabling to let ME hold a gun, just because I never had before. Wish I knew who he was now...
I haven't been to a gun show recently. Hell, I haven't been to a gun store recently. But the last time I was, University Pawn in Tampa let my buddy and I hold whatever we wanted. My buddy bought from the guy before, and he is easily influenced, so maybe that has something to do with it. But the salesman walked around with us while we looked around. I didn't bother him about holding some stuff I wanted to, but I felt the prices were higher then reasonable (MSRP is never reasonable), and I wasn't buying that day, so no point in trying to haggle. Another guy came in looking at a used Glock, and stated that some other guy has them for $10 more new. He told the guy in a polite way "Then I'd go buy there" and that was that. Then he said that's $40 over cost on a new Glock, but he may have been blowing smoke up our butts.
Just because he didn't have any money with him doesn't mean anything. A lot of people don't bring money to gun shows because they know they can't control their spending. He might have picked it up and gone "Damn, I like the way this feels. Hey dad, can you spot me some cash until I can get to the bank?"
As for lying about having a credit card, of course you are going to say you don't have any money. Good salesman are like bums. Even if you don't have any money, they will still hound you because they know you have a nickel in your pocket. You by default answer "I don't have any money" because you don't want to be spending it. It's the salesmans job to change your mind about that. Everyone can come up with some money when they want something bad enough.
Most of the gun shows I have been to have a cable that runs through EVERY frigin gun on the table. I'm honestly not even sure how they show a gun when they need to. I remember one time when I was real little, like 8 or 9, pops and I went to a gun show. The guy undid the cabling to let ME hold a gun, just because I never had before. Wish I knew who he was now...
I haven't been to a gun show recently. Hell, I haven't been to a gun store recently. But the last time I was, University Pawn in Tampa let my buddy and I hold whatever we wanted. My buddy bought from the guy before, and he is easily influenced, so maybe that has something to do with it. But the salesman walked around with us while we looked around. I didn't bother him about holding some stuff I wanted to, but I felt the prices were higher then reasonable (MSRP is never reasonable), and I wasn't buying that day, so no point in trying to haggle. Another guy came in looking at a used Glock, and stated that some other guy has them for $10 more new. He told the guy in a polite way "Then I'd go buy there" and that was that. Then he said that's $40 over cost on a new Glock, but he may have been blowing smoke up our butts.
bannockburn
Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
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- 26,306
Well, I've been on both sides of the table, and the one thing I remember from sales is, as my old boss once told me, is that you sell the "sizzle", not the "steak". You're not an order taker, and you're not a commodities broker. You're there to get the customer involved in the whole process; you want them to handle the item, you want them to play with all the gadgets, you want them to get a feel of ownership while they're looking it over, trying to make up their mind. Because as we all know, nobody wants to be sold something; we all would rather believe that we made the decision to buy it.
And there is nothing wrong with pre-qualifying the customer, as long as it done tactfully. "So you thinking about getting one of these guns soon?" or "I might be able to do a little better with the price, if this is what you're looking for." or "Is the one you're looking at in your price range/budget?" There are other ways to do this, of course, but the whole idea is to keep some lines of communication open between the customer and the seller, thereby making the sales process a sucess on both sides of the table.
And there is nothing wrong with pre-qualifying the customer, as long as it done tactfully. "So you thinking about getting one of these guns soon?" or "I might be able to do a little better with the price, if this is what you're looking for." or "Is the one you're looking at in your price range/budget?" There are other ways to do this, of course, but the whole idea is to keep some lines of communication open between the customer and the seller, thereby making the sales process a sucess on both sides of the table.
That is absolutely how I feel and based on what I have seen, the guys that have their stuff on easy display far outsell those behind the glass cases. In the gun shows here, there are two dealers that have open displays and there are always 5-6 people filling out their 4473 forms, while you seldom see anyone in front of the other dealers.
Based on what I have read so far in this thread, it appears that the old "Customer is always right" has been substituted with "The hell with the customer". Folks, it is a retail business like anything else. If you want to make it, you better be nice.
I hear this thing about being on both sides of the table, and how annoying is when customers do this and that. Well, how about when next time any of you goes to Best Buy, Circuit City, or Wal-mart and they tell you that you can not touch the cameras on display if you do not have money. I bet all of you will be looking for the manager to raise hell about it. Double standards, anyone?!
Clipper
Member
...And those stores have those items cabled down, and they're display items...They're there to be fondled, but noone wants to have to take them home, and they don't have to, because there are pallets full of them out back, and we all know those are the ones that go to checkout. You and I both know you'd refuse to buy the display model, or you'd want one hellacious discount to take a beat-up floor model! The guy at the gun show doesn't have a semi full of pristine examples out back, he has to sell the one YOU may just have fumble-fingered and dropped on the floor, or worse, onto the table full of other guns. Now, are you going to do the right thing and buy it and maybe a few others because you damaged it while dinking around playing with merchandise you had no intention of buying in the first place? I thought so...
So tell me again all about your double standards...
politicalgeek
Member
So here is the million dollar question....why do the dealers here with the No Cash/Purchasing Today = No Touch even bother with shows?
There are arguments for both sides of the table. Instead of the nice shiny AR for 1500, why not bring a table full of the used milsurps and other things that are going for 300-400 and under? Save the more expensive things for a shop or other environment that you have control over. Let the used and well loved pieces get fondled and handled, make some good deals and earn some good business.
It seems both sides want respect but can't decide a fair and mutual way to get it. Consumers want to touch and see to know how something will feel for them, while dealers want to protect their investment. I think some of the dealers I have seen handle things very well. One shop I frequent has most of their merchandise on racks and under glass where one has to ask to see. They also have a "bargain" rack for some of the used long guns under 200 or so. This is just sitting out for anyone to touch and see, with a sign reminding that you need to be 18+ to touch. Their serious pieces offer a "serious inquiries only" reminder under the glass.
Coping an attitude based on the experience you have had in the past with customers isn't right. But those customers need to know how to play ball to earn the respect and trust of the dealer. It goes both ways.
There are arguments for both sides of the table. Instead of the nice shiny AR for 1500, why not bring a table full of the used milsurps and other things that are going for 300-400 and under? Save the more expensive things for a shop or other environment that you have control over. Let the used and well loved pieces get fondled and handled, make some good deals and earn some good business.
It seems both sides want respect but can't decide a fair and mutual way to get it. Consumers want to touch and see to know how something will feel for them, while dealers want to protect their investment. I think some of the dealers I have seen handle things very well. One shop I frequent has most of their merchandise on racks and under glass where one has to ask to see. They also have a "bargain" rack for some of the used long guns under 200 or so. This is just sitting out for anyone to touch and see, with a sign reminding that you need to be 18+ to touch. Their serious pieces offer a "serious inquiries only" reminder under the glass.
Coping an attitude based on the experience you have had in the past with customers isn't right. But those customers need to know how to play ball to earn the respect and trust of the dealer. It goes both ways.
Well, I have bought a gun that has been on display and touched, and maybe dropped. It is a gun for God's sakes, it better not get damaged from touching and dropping only.
While I electronics is not the same as guns, and Wal-mart is not Joe's Pawn and Guns, I still believe that the same customer service practices apply.
The bottom line is this: it is your business, you run it the way you want. You also might think that what you doing has merit, however, at the end what matters is what your customers think about your customer service. I do not think you will convince anyone (beyond the gun dealer folks) that "if you do not have money do not touch my guns" policy is a good policy.
35Rem
Member
If it's such a great business practice to be "pre qualified" to touch, how about all the dealers that do this that have posted list their business names so the guys that want to handle them can know before-hand?
I personally won't buy from you. That's my choice, same as yours.
Car dealers don't make you fill out the paperwork, or "flash the cash" before you get behind the wheel.
Just put your guns out of reach if you don't want them touched. Signs and bad attitudes are a turn off, especially for NEW shooters.
I personally won't buy from you. That's my choice, same as yours.
Car dealers don't make you fill out the paperwork, or "flash the cash" before you get behind the wheel.
Just put your guns out of reach if you don't want them touched. Signs and bad attitudes are a turn off, especially for NEW shooters.
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