auschip
Member
Actually, every car dealer I have ever gone to see, has requested proof of insurance before allowing a test drive.
Gun show dealers are so polite!
- Thread starter stevekl
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Actually, every car dealer I have ever gone to see, has requested proof of insurance before allowing a test drive.
Bubbles
Member
Because cash talks and BS walks, and people do walk into gun shows with enough cash to purchase that $2000 rifle, several cases of ammo, and accessories for it.
I've worked the Richmond, VA show for another dealer and there's another thing to consider: the criminal element down there. If you're handling a dealer's gun then you are taking the dealer's time, because he is not going to take his eyes off of you to help another customer. The risk of that gun disappearing is just too high.
"Do Not Touch" signs are a joke. People have picked them up to move them out of the way to handle a firearm on the table. If you want to touch a gun, ask. If you want to dry-fire it, ask. If the dealer hands it to you action-open so you can check that it is clear, hand it back the same way.
Oh, and while you're handling that firearm after asking permission from the dealer, don't sweep him, his employees, or anyone else with it.
politicalgeek
Member
To each his own, but ,I think from the responses you have seen, most of us will walk from a dealer with that kind of attitude. The show I just went to tags all guns for private sale as you walk in and every dealer is given a set of zip ties and sold tags that have to be removed when you leave. The chance of that gun walking off is pretty slim. If we waste 5 minutes of your time, we waste it. But if you treat us right, we'll take a card and come back when we have the cash and can you our business.
Bubbles
Member
You are kidding, right? Tell you what, since it's highly unlikely I'll ever attend the Chantilly or Richmond, VA gun shows in the future - if I'd wanted to carry a loaded pistol into or out of either of them, and kept it on me the whole time I was in there, I could have very easily.
I am absolutely amazed at the dealers here.
Apparently they want to just kill the gun shows. Why do you think people go to gun shows!? It's not JUST to buy a gun cause we can do that at any time by going to a store and NOT have to pay just to get in. People go to gun shows to... get this... look at, handle and oogle all the GUNS! I understand you have a business to run but if it's such a risk, stop coming to gun shows.
The fact that you continue to come to the gun shows tells me you are getting a reward far greater than the risk there.
But hey, it's your business. You want to kill it and the gun show, go for it.
Apparently they want to just kill the gun shows. Why do you think people go to gun shows!? It's not JUST to buy a gun cause we can do that at any time by going to a store and NOT have to pay just to get in. People go to gun shows to... get this... look at, handle and oogle all the GUNS! I understand you have a business to run but if it's such a risk, stop coming to gun shows.
The fact that you continue to come to the gun shows tells me you are getting a reward far greater than the risk there.
But hey, it's your business. You want to kill it and the gun show, go for it.
politicalgeek
Member
Bubbles,
Maybe I should have clarified. I don't know what the arrangements are there...for the one I saw here in Columbus, it seemed pretty difficult, especially with the long guns. When I bought my shotgun from a dealer, they tagged it sold on the trigger guard before handing it to me. All guns there sold had to have the tag. Most of the handguns were under glass and most dealers seemed to have enough staff to adequately handle the crowds. I also think its unfair to tag and lump gun owners into one large category. Again things may be different in your area, but this guilty before innocent assumption does not seem like good practice. I wouldn't want to walk into a clothing store, followed by a staff member because they assumed I might steal something.
Maybe I should have clarified. I don't know what the arrangements are there...for the one I saw here in Columbus, it seemed pretty difficult, especially with the long guns. When I bought my shotgun from a dealer, they tagged it sold on the trigger guard before handing it to me. All guns there sold had to have the tag. Most of the handguns were under glass and most dealers seemed to have enough staff to adequately handle the crowds. I also think its unfair to tag and lump gun owners into one large category. Again things may be different in your area, but this guilty before innocent assumption does not seem like good practice. I wouldn't want to walk into a clothing store, followed by a staff member because they assumed I might steal something.
Brad Johnson
Member
(And the flip side...)
I am absolutely amazed at the gunshow attendees here.
Apparently, they want to just kill the gun shows.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...
Attendees, if you want to see the dealers lighten up, then get your collective heads out and use some common courtesy.
Dealers, if you want to see attendees lighten up, then get your collective heads out and use some basic retail strategy.
Brad
35Rem
Member
Let me get this straight. If I go to a SHOW (shows are to see stuff), and PAY my MONEY to get in, then I'm killing the SHOW. Is that what you mean?
If you want to sell stuff, then be a salesman, not run people off that aren't buying RIGHT NOW. Giving a young person the cold shoulder because they don't have the jack right now isn't gonna sell guns in the future, nor promote the continuation of the gun culture. If all a "newby" get is attitude, whatever the sport, hobby, etc, then they'll not only find another hobby to spend their money on, they'll also run down the one they were shunned from. There aren't a lot of Grandfathers, Uncles, Dads left spreading the gun culture.
Think about that.
I saw it.
It's easy to judge a situation from afar, and as the saying goes there's always two sides to every story, but as I saw it the customer is the one who brought up the point of not having the means to pay for it. The dealer was just protecting his investment by telling him not to play with it. It wasn't a $150 Hi Point, he was holding a $2500 FN, if it was to get damaged who would pay for it, the customer already stated he had no money or credit cards. And as for turning tail, cussing the dealer behind his back and starting a negative post about him on this site for being told not to play with something he had no intention of buying, it's obvious we all have our own opinions on that.
Also contrary to the name gunshow, it is actually a gun sale. All of the dealers set up at a show are there to make a profit. The guns are on display for the potential buyer, not as some would beleive just there for you to handle because you seen one on Stargate.
It's easy to judge a situation from afar, and as the saying goes there's always two sides to every story, but as I saw it the customer is the one who brought up the point of not having the means to pay for it. The dealer was just protecting his investment by telling him not to play with it. It wasn't a $150 Hi Point, he was holding a $2500 FN, if it was to get damaged who would pay for it, the customer already stated he had no money or credit cards. And as for turning tail, cussing the dealer behind his back and starting a negative post about him on this site for being told not to play with something he had no intention of buying, it's obvious we all have our own opinions on that.
Also contrary to the name gunshow, it is actually a gun sale. All of the dealers set up at a show are there to make a profit. The guns are on display for the potential buyer, not as some would beleive just there for you to handle because you seen one on Stargate.
Brad Johnson
Member
They get the "attitude" because:
A) Attendees seem to think that anything on display is fair game, and that rules of congenial behavior, personal responsibility, and common courtesy cease at the door. They fat-finger inventory they don't intend to buy, do so without concern for the money that someone else has tied up in it, and then monopolize the dealers' time with inane and meaningless chatter.
B) Dealers, who's dispositions may not be the best to begin with and who probably have little retail experience outside their very insular environment, do the only thing they know how - dropping the hammer on accessability and clamping down on time issues. They insist on seeing money first and will pare back the staff because their shrinking margins don't allow for the manpower.
In the end it's a vicious cycle. Each party, both dealer and attendee, generally make uncivilized goons of themselves in response to the others' actions. And both, tending to be prideful and strong-willed sorts, are determined to stand their ground because, "..by God, that idiot across the table ought to know better!"
No one is about to step back and say, "Hey, wait a minute, what are we doing...!?" because that would show weakness and force them to admit that they might not be quite as right as they thought they were. It's always the other guy's problem no matter what side of the table it's on.
And it's a silly, stupid, asinine situation totally of our own making. The fact that we've spent three pages debating "which side of the table owes what to the other side" is proof positive that we have a collective case of cranio-rectal inversion. Not him, them, you, or any reference to the other party. WE. "We" as in us - both attendees and dealers. We could get our heads out and make things work, but we won't. And it's because of the "can't be me so it must be thee" attitudes expressed in this very thread.
:banghead:Brad
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politicalgeek
Member
I don't think the majority are saying we should just touch and play because we saw it on some TV show. A lot of us go to the shows or the stores looking for potential things. I know I am looking at a b and c when I go in, but d catches my eye. Its too expensive at the moment, but I like the idea of D for a purchase down the road. Being able to see the fit and finish, the dealers that specialize and the prices helps make an informed decision. A dealer that takes 5 minutes to help me out and offer some advice and opinions will get my business every time, even if I won't be coming back for a few more months.
35Rem
Member
That's part of what I mean. It's a Bother to talk to someone interested in guns. That's a pretty bad attitude.
"if you got the money, I got the time"
That's how you build good relationships with people and get them to come back year after year to keep buying.
NOT Like this, right?:
Bubbles
Member
The dealer I worked with had no problem with people handling/fondling his stuff to their heart's content - as long as they asked first. Typically those were the folks who handled the firearms safely. It's the ones who didn't ask, or who moved the "Don't Touch" signs, who were the ones who swept the crowd, dry-fired the .22's, scratched finishes, etc.
politicalgeek
Member
I don't know what you mean when you quoted me 35Rem.
I had another thread going elsewhere here on finding ammo. 3 places I went to try and find buckshot. One was gander mountain, who didn't have any. I asked the clerk, and it was pretty much if it's not down there, we don't have it. Walmart didn't have any either. So I went to a local gun store. I asked, they looked and said no. At that point it could have been like Gander Mountain, me walking out to find another store. The clerk took me to the other side of the counter and called 4-5 other stores around OH they manage, found one that carried what I wanted and arranged to have it shipped to the store I was in. We spent about 5 minutes talking about shotguns, the trends with shotguns and home defense. I mentioned looking for a .410 after he mentioned that he had plenty of .410 and 12 gauge. He showed me a pretty unique single shot .410/.45LC, which I may go back for when I start camping again. It was a great experience. Walmart I won't fault for not carrying a huge selection. I know I can get good deals on bird shot, .22lr and .38 spl practice ammo. Gander Mountain probably won't get much business from me in the future. That clerk could have taken the 5 mins, called a manager to check on stock or actually look with me. Good service, in my eyes, reaps good business.
I, as I am sure most of us here on THR, try to respect the dealer. I love going into Gander Mountain since they keep long guns out for us to look at. I only pick up the ones that I know are in the back of my mind for a purchase. I am nowhere near an AR purchase or another high dollar rifle. So, despite Gander Mountain having one out, I leave it be. I pick up the shotguns and the .22s, look at the prices and see if theres a good deal on something I like.
I had another thread going elsewhere here on finding ammo. 3 places I went to try and find buckshot. One was gander mountain, who didn't have any. I asked the clerk, and it was pretty much if it's not down there, we don't have it. Walmart didn't have any either. So I went to a local gun store. I asked, they looked and said no. At that point it could have been like Gander Mountain, me walking out to find another store. The clerk took me to the other side of the counter and called 4-5 other stores around OH they manage, found one that carried what I wanted and arranged to have it shipped to the store I was in. We spent about 5 minutes talking about shotguns, the trends with shotguns and home defense. I mentioned looking for a .410 after he mentioned that he had plenty of .410 and 12 gauge. He showed me a pretty unique single shot .410/.45LC, which I may go back for when I start camping again. It was a great experience. Walmart I won't fault for not carrying a huge selection. I know I can get good deals on bird shot, .22lr and .38 spl practice ammo. Gander Mountain probably won't get much business from me in the future. That clerk could have taken the 5 mins, called a manager to check on stock or actually look with me. Good service, in my eyes, reaps good business.
I, as I am sure most of us here on THR, try to respect the dealer. I love going into Gander Mountain since they keep long guns out for us to look at. I only pick up the ones that I know are in the back of my mind for a purchase. I am nowhere near an AR purchase or another high dollar rifle. So, despite Gander Mountain having one out, I leave it be. I pick up the shotguns and the .22s, look at the prices and see if theres a good deal on something I like.
Brad Johnson
Member
If it means spending 20 minutes listening to meaningless prattle about someone's latest gun obsession while trying to help someone else who wants to make a purchase then, yes, it's a bother.
Those of us waiting in line to actually buy something don't appreciate it much, either. My patience with your problems begins to wear thin when you are the problem. Monopolizing the dealer's time with an endless story about the latest AR accessory - though you've no desire to actually spend money - might be important to you, but it's not to those of us waiting in line.
It certainly doesn't help the dealer's attitude any, either. While listening to your story (usually a variant of some story he's already heard about, oh..., 1500 times) he can see me standing there, money in hand and ready to buy, knowing that any second I could could just as easily buy from the guy across the aisle.
Which brings us back to that whole vicious circle thing again.
Brad
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35Rem
Member
politicalgeek,
your example is the "right way" to encourage others to join our sport/hobby.
That's what I meant.
your example is the "right way" to encourage others to join our sport/hobby.
That's what I meant.
politicalgeek
Member
I was unclear thanks.
I come into this debate as a part of the younger generation, getting ready to finish college in the next year or so. I know (it may be an unfair assumption) that there is a lot of ageism out there. If you look at half of the videos on you tube related to firearms, I can probably see where this comes from. I try not to add to that and be a positive example.
I come into this debate as a part of the younger generation, getting ready to finish college in the next year or so. I know (it may be an unfair assumption) that there is a lot of ageism out there. If you look at half of the videos on you tube related to firearms, I can probably see where this comes from. I try not to add to that and be a positive example.
Kevin108
Member
Around here, that would also put quite a few Nazi memorabilia dealers out of business, so it wouldn't be all bad.
no_problem
Member
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2006
- Messages
- 342
what's up with all the Nazi stuff at Gun Shows?
<<Kevin108
Quote:
I am absolutely amazed at the gunshow attendees here.
Apparently, they want to just kill the gun shows.
Around here, that would also put quite a few Nazi memorabilia dealers out of business, so it wouldn't be all bad.>>
How many of those "actual" Heinrich Himmler daggers have they actually sold?
<<Kevin108
Quote:
I am absolutely amazed at the gunshow attendees here.
Apparently, they want to just kill the gun shows.
Around here, that would also put quite a few Nazi memorabilia dealers out of business, so it wouldn't be all bad.>>
How many of those "actual" Heinrich Himmler daggers have they actually sold?
mgregg85
Member
A simple sign saying "please don't touch the guns" could have solved all of this.
I have had a couple of problems at the gun shows I have gone to as well as the stores. Nothing major, but the owners not giving me the time of day. I know what the problem is, its that I look like I am 14 years old; I'm 19 almost 20. At the gun show, there was one person who gave me the time of day, answered my questions, and said thank you for looking. I went back and bought from him 20-30 minutes later.
However, I was and still am looking for a rifle, and nobody except that person wanted to give me the time of day. You could tell they thought I had no money, and was a waste of their time. Instead of trying to help me find something, they brushed me aside, and would either talk to their neighbor, or another customer. I personally cant stand that, and no matter how good a deal the gun is, I won't buy it. I also expect to be able to hold the gun I am thinking about purchasing without someone asking if I have the money. If someone asks me if I have the funds available to purchase, I'm going to say yes, and simply walk away. I find that rude to ask someone about their finances.
Just my 2 cents.
However, I was and still am looking for a rifle, and nobody except that person wanted to give me the time of day. You could tell they thought I had no money, and was a waste of their time. Instead of trying to help me find something, they brushed me aside, and would either talk to their neighbor, or another customer. I personally cant stand that, and no matter how good a deal the gun is, I won't buy it. I also expect to be able to hold the gun I am thinking about purchasing without someone asking if I have the money. If someone asks me if I have the funds available to purchase, I'm going to say yes, and simply walk away. I find that rude to ask someone about their finances.
Just my 2 cents.
Richbaker
Member
Camacho, et al, Best Buy, Circuit city, Wal-Mart and the rest of the big stores can afford to eat some damages, most (if not all) of the people selling at a Gun show can NOT....why expect them to ??
Richbaker
Member
The local Gun Show is NOT the SHOT Show, or the NRA National Meeting, where every manufacturer sets up a booth to show off their wares.....it is a Sales event, the guns are for SALE, not to play with or fondle....
No, I am not a dealer, nor have I ever worked for one. I just understand the deal....
No, I am not a dealer, nor have I ever worked for one. I just understand the deal....
joab
Member
Funny you should say that
I hear more and more dealers saying that they are thinking about leaving the Orlando show off their itinerary in the future because there are just too many fondlers and not enough buyers
At the same time a local mega store of dubious reputation is slowly taking over the show.
Every time I go they have a few more tables, last time they had about 1/3 of the hall and every time I go their prices creep up just a little
They make sure you don't touch their stuff by running an alarm through the trigger guards of all the guns
It takes only a second for you to say "do you mind" and me to say "sure, go ahead"
On the other side it only takes me a second to say "you wanna see it"? if you look like you may want to buy
Sometimes they say not thank you some times they say that they are just looking and have no money
They are still welcome to hold the gun and talk to me about it
But if they are one of those that are on a quest to see how many guns they can pick up and point at people or if they want to educate me about how the SKS is the semi auto version of the Mauser that the Russians took control of after the war or about how the .410 revolvers have to have such a big magazine to counter the high pressures of the bottle neck .410 round or, my personal favorite, chastise me because the army does not provide dragon skin or a true bullet proof helmet and demand that I tell them when it is going to happen, then I'm sorry but I have other things to do
The Annoyed Man
Member
I guess I'm a rarity in the gun world in that I haven't been to a gun show in years. Granted, the ones I went to were all in California, but after a few of them, it got to be sort of a "seen one, seem 'em all" kind of thing for me and I got bored with it.
I find guns endlessly fascinating, and I have my favorite gun stores that I like to go to. Some of them are kind of hangouts and I've gotten to know the owners/employees a little bit. I like the small shops. They tend to be the friendliest, and in my experience, often the most knowledgeable. When I need to see a LOT of guns, I'll go to Cabela's or Bass Pro, or Sportsman's warehouse. But often, I'll still buy the item I'm looking at from the small dealer.
But gun shows? Nah. Not for me.
I find guns endlessly fascinating, and I have my favorite gun stores that I like to go to. Some of them are kind of hangouts and I've gotten to know the owners/employees a little bit. I like the small shops. They tend to be the friendliest, and in my experience, often the most knowledgeable. When I need to see a LOT of guns, I'll go to Cabela's or Bass Pro, or Sportsman's warehouse. But often, I'll still buy the item I'm looking at from the small dealer.
But gun shows? Nah. Not for me.
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