Why are we so worried about gun control?

[MeekandMild]

Now that I have your attention I would like to open the floor for discussion of why are we so worried about gun control when we really need to be worried about 1) the US dollar is so overvalued and free trade is so open that all our technical jobs are going overseas 2) there is a sharp decrease in the number of tech schools, what they teach and the quality of students they attract 3) if you go to a college library to study you don't meet any other Americans there 4) Red Chinese tools are so much cheaper than American made the US toolmakers are one by one going out of business?

(I mean, its fine to teach such things in trade school, but if a real war ever breaks out I don't think that the country will need hairdressers and nursing home assistants so much as they would need machinists and steelworkers.)

It seems to me that having all the guns we want in the US isn't going to help our freedom if somebody sells the country out from under us and we all have to move to China to find jobs? Will China keep letting us import equipment if they declare war on us? Duh.

 

[Graystar]

You really can't worry about anything....IF YOU'RE DEAD!

Preserve your life first....then worry about the other thing.

 

[Chris Rhines]

Groan.

When other people start telling me what I really need to be worried about, my narcolepsy kicks in.

- Chris

 

[ReadyontheRight]

"The Competitive Advantage of Nations" by Michael Porter points out that protectionism can drive a nation's inability to compete in war material production. I haven't read it in a while, but I think he was operating under the assumption that the US would still do the machining, etc. to produce cars and other heavy equipment.

From the work I've done with software and firmware development companies, many use offshore developers to write code. They have smart, cheap labor, but they have almost zero creativity. If you cannot spell out exactly what you want, the specific steps to get there and the end-product of each step, they cannot deliver.

We really need to figure out how to continue the American spirit of creativity, independence and "can-do" attitude.

 

[Glock Glockler]

Meek,

The problems that you describe do exist and I am very concerned about them, though I thinik there is very little I can to do affect that situation, though there is more that I can do to affect the gun control situation. At the end of the day I will focus my concern to what I can influence.

To remedy the problems you described we will need to:

- Get the govt out of the school business
- get rid of the scores of business regulations that strangle the economic incentive to remain in this country
- Enact "right to work" laws in every state so that unions will no longer have a monopoly on labor
- repeal minimum wage laws
- cease foreign aid and subsidies to economic competitors
- repeal the "progressive" income tax that discourages internal production
- Lower the amount of corporate taxation. The US has the highest rate of corporate taxation of all industrialized countries

That would do much to remedy the situation. You'd find that companies would remain here simply because it's cost effective to do so if the above things were done. Companies are leaving the US because they're incentivized to do so, as the US is no longer a business friendly environment. US kids do not go into hard sciences because they educational background, as they've been trained to do nothing more than regurgitate information, and BS information at that. We will have to reap what we sow if we become a service based economy who's dependant on foreigners to be our brains (Saudi controlled Arabia comes to mind).

 

[ETCss Phil McCrackin]

Of course people need to be concerned with the things you have mentioned. Now, there’s a varying scale of problems and worries which range from everyday (getting up for work on time) to planet-wide (world hunger). Now what you ignore in your post is that of all the things you mentioned, the RTKBA is the only concern which is guaranteed to U.S. citizens by the Constitution.

Also, since many people have no concern for anything which doesn’t involve them directly, their right to defend themselves and their family comes very high on the list.

 

[TallPine]

Will China keep letting us import equipment if they declare war on us?

Why would China declare war on us ...?

They need us as a market for all of their slave labor manufactured junk.

If the USA ever falls, the whole rest of the world wil fall into another dark age.

 

[seeker_two]

"The price of freedom is eternal vigillance..."

It's ALL worth worrying about...

Will China keep letting us import equipment if they declare war on us?

As you will see from the North Korea situation, China would prefer to have us as a CUSTOMER far more than they want us as an ENEMY. Their economy is a house of cards right now, and the only thing keeping them afloat is the export business--specifically export to the US. If they lose that, they lose the country.

...THEN they could really become a problem!

(Read "THE BEAR & THE DRAGON" by Clancy for an example...)

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I think RKBA is a big contributor to the mix of things that make USA successful, so I am very worried about it. I certainly have no desire to follow the path of any other country. RKBA is one of the tests of whether we start down that path.

 

[longeyes]

"To remedy the problems you described we will need to:

- Get the govt out of the school business
"- get rid of the scores of business regulations that strangle the economic
incentive to remain in this country
- Enact "right to work" laws in every state so that unions will no longer have a
monopoly on labor
- repeal minimum wage laws
- cease foreign aid and subsidies to economic competitors
- repeal the "progressive" income tax that discourages internal production
- Lower the amount of corporate taxation. The US has the highest rate of
corporate taxation of all industrialized countries"

All these problems, plus RKBA, are inter-related. All are important. We need to be strong on the macro as well as on the micro level.

But wouldn't it be great if we had a President and a party that could outline the points above and go to the mat to fight for them without apology?

 

[Moparmike]

I dont know if you were being fecicious(sp?) or not

But wouldn't it be great if we had a President and a party that could outline the points above and go to the mat to fight for them without apology?

But we do have that party. Its the Libertarian Party.

 

[Zedicus]

Now that I have your attention I would like to open the floor for discussion of why are we so worried about gun control when we really need to be worried about 1) the US dollar is so overvalued and free trade is so open that all our technical jobs are going overseas 2) there is a sharp decrease in the number of tech schools, what they teach and the quality of students they attract 3) if you go to a college library to study you don't meet any other Americans there 4) Red Chinese tools are so much cheaper than American made the US toolmakers are one by one going out of business?

Try visiting the uk for atleast 6-12 months sometime...

• 
  [1] If you think the dollar is Over Inflated, Have a look at the British Pound, and jobs are practicaly on the endangered spicies list over here.
  [2] My local college here in the UK is full of every sort of undesirable individual that you could imagine, there are very few students that are even civilised.
  [3] same here, very few americans or british, mostly Iranians and ones from Barhain[sp?] or Afganistan.
  [4] how about the no-quality cheap pakistani korian or indian made tinfoil junk that they primaraly sell here? and most of the UK toolmakers ARE allready gone.

point is, things can still be worse elswhere.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I base my concern of various political topics proportionally to the concern the government spends screwing up those topics. The government spends a great deal of time trying to ban firearms, so I have to spend a great deal of time fighting them.

Since the government essentially only pays lip-service to education, employment, economics and the GNP, it is not necessary for me to put a lot of effort into fighting their socialist agenda.

Gun control is one of the few areas on which the government can have a direct and immediate effect.

 

[morganm01]

"The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance"

the topic of this forum is broadly "Guns". So, that is mostly all you will read here. Just because you may not read about every other issue in the country on this forum everyday, does not mean that no one here is concerned.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Without freedom, nothing is worth having, doing, owning, or hoping for.

 

[MeekandMild]

Actually this wasn't entirely a rhetorical question, but there is a point to tie everything together.

IMHO the RKBA is one of the keys to keeping our industrial strength.

Why? We the firearms hobbyists would seem to be a driving force to be reckoned with in the arena of technology. It would seem that sometimes the only thing keeping US industry afloat is the fact that there are millions of dedicated gunnies out demanding the best tooled, best machined products. Then we buy loads of gimmicks, gizmos and accassories to make our toys shoot better.

I'm struck by the fact that hobbyists helped perfect the airplane, the liquid fueled rocket, the automobile, the motorcycle, the computer. With the schools going to hell in a handbasket, with the literacy rate plummeting what is there to keep the young people interested enough to learn and study technology? The RKBA.

 

[Futo Inu]

MeekandMild, there is a very simple and powerful answer to your question which I *thought* was obvious or known to all RKBA believers. It's real simple:

On ALL other issues across the policital/legal/economic spectrum, there is always a mechanism in place, to cause the pendulum to swing back if a policy goes to far this way or that - and that mechanism is called democracy (or a democratic republic, if you want to be a stickler). As long as we have a democracy, whenever something goes to hell in a handbasket, the truth will eventually be seen, the policy changed, and the pendulum swings back to a more homeostatic/optimal policy "place".

However, in contrast, the RKBA, is far and away the most important right we have because (1) it is the right which ensures a democracy in the long term (in theory), because the entire point of the RKBA is to act as a check on the gov't by keeping power in the hands of the people, through private small arms possession, and most importantly (b) it is the one right that, if/when taken away, will lead to a situation where the people will have no power to reclaim the right from a tyrannical gov't/leader who usurps the rights and all other rights in a democracy, and attempts to abolish the democracy itself. Once the guns are taken, then if the democracy is also taken contemporaneously (as is often the case historically), then the people lack the power to restore the democracy, creating a catch-22 situation that can only be remedied by an invasion from other countries, restoring democracy (such as happened with Hitler's Germany), since revolution will not be possible absent firearms ownership (actually it's possible, but it makes revolution very difficult and protracted and bloody). So a catch-22 situation is created when the RKBA is curtailed, in the event of a democracy-robbing tyrant. Thus it is by far and away the most important thing to protect; the most important right to keep from going down the proverbial slippery slope; the right most important therefore, to not tolerate the slightest infringement against it. It is therefore sensible, IMO, to use the RKBA as a proxy/litmus test for any and all politicians, especially federal-level politicians. All other right/problems, etc. be it the 1A, other rights in the BOR, the economy/trade/job loss, whathaveyou - these things will work themselves out in the long run, IMO, as long as we have a democracy to vote the correct policy back in, once it becomes clear the former policies are running us into the ground, economically or otherwise.

 

[MeekandMild]

Well said. You should run for the NRA board of directors.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Why are we so worried about gun control?

My guess would be because this is a gun board.

 

[TekChef]

Let's keep it short and sweet-

The 2nd amendment protects the Constitution and our Republic as a whole.

The founders were VERY adamant about us being armed personally. All males from age 18-45(correect me on those numbers if I am wrong), are the militia; we are supposed to be armed and know how to use it.

Why?

FIRST AND FOREMOST!
To prevent tyranny-if we are armed and outnumber the government-they may kill lots of us, but we will win. As long as we are armed, everything that we the people have as rights JUST BE BEING BORN as a legal US citizen are protected. The bill of rights is not a premission slip-it's a limitation on government.
The founders , from what I have read, put the admendments in order of importance. Interesting how the 1st is about speaking, thinking and believing in what you want is quickly followed by the right to be armed.

This is NOT by accident!

Without this safeguard-alll the things we argue about everyday mean NOTHING.

Once the 2nd is nullified-we are not longer citizens of a free country. We are subjects to a federal overlord.

You know the sayings-
Don't Tread on me!
Live free or die!

clear?