Why can't we say .45 "Long Colt?" Oops, I said it!

[unspellable]

The 45 variants

First there was the 45 Colt.

Next came the 45 Smith & Wesson, also known as the 45 Schofield.

The there was a problem. You could only put three 45 S&Ws in the Colt SAA due to the wider rim.

The government then came up with the 45 Government, a cartridge with the length of the 45 S&W but the narrow rim of the 45 Colt. This at the risk of getting them under the extractor in the S&W revolver. This cartridge was then placed on the civilian market by the ammo manufacturers where it was know as the 45 Short Colt and so labeled on the box. It's NOT the same as the 45 S&W or 45 Schofield. This cartridge was available on the civilian up until maybe the 1930’s. It was this cartridge that resulted in the 45 Colt being nicknamed the 45 Long Colt in the 1980s or so.

Then the military took up the 38 Colt. Results were not spectacular in the Philippine insurrection.

By this time the military had already decided on a 45 Self loader and while in the drawing board stage the specs called for a 45 cartridge with identical bullet weight and velocity of the 45 Government or 45 Short Colt.

Meanwhile back in the Philippines the old 45 Colts went back into service but were in short supply. As a stop gap the military adopted the Colt New Service Model of 1909 which was NOT chambered for 45 Colt. The cartridge was the 1909 Colt 45 which had a case just slightly longer than a 45 Colt and a wide rim like the 45 S&W for the stra extractor. These revolvers were meant to be bale to use the 45 Colt as a bacxk up cartridge in the event the 1909 Colt 45 was in short supply. A little over 2000 of these revolvers were made and almost all of them went to the Philippines and saw service in tropical conditions so really really nice ones are quite rare.

There was a dirty little secret. The 45s did not do very well at stopping the Moros either. The 30-40 Krag also did poorly. Bottom line is that non-expanding bullets just don’t do very well, regardless of caliber.

There was a 45 Luger which never got beyond the testing stage.

And finally the 45 ACP.

(Unless you want to continue on to the 45 Winchester magnum etc.)

 

[CajunBass]

I like to correct people who make "mistakes" like this becaue it makes me feel superior to them.

 

[Eleven Mike]

I like to correct people who make "mistakes" like this because I AM superior to them.

By the way, peon, you misspelled "because." You may worship me after you edit your post.

 

[unspellable]

45

OK, so every body knows what a 45 Colt is, be it right or wrong. But the term "double action only" is an obvious oxymoron. And it does lead to confusion. We have "Double action only" self loaders that have only one action, where's the other? And what if I really mean "double action", how do make myself clear? The so called "double action only" is really a self cocking single action.

Untill you guys get this one resolved I'm sticking to my triple action Daewoo.

 

[CajunBass]

By the way, peon, you misspelled "because." You may worship me after you edit your post.

Naw. When I know I'm being audited, I always leave a 5 pound bag of "stuff" right inside the front door. That way my superiors are happy, because they found something wrong and got to correct me. Then, they go away and leave me alone.

 

[Leanwolf]

JOAB - "Quote:
Did you mispell banana just to provoke more argument?

As much as I would like to say yes, I just don't know how to spell bannanna "
_________________________________________________________________

That's easy. Everyone knows it is correctly spelled "Nanners." As in, "I think I'll go to Baskin Robbins and eat me one of them "Nanner Splits."

Same with "Gimme a side of them French Fried Taters."

Or, "I'll have one of them Bacon and Mater sandwiches."

L.W.

 

[ribbonstone]

SlingBlade lives....'I like the way you talk.'

From Andrew Jackson (usually not very quotable):
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."

 

[Eleven Mike]

Re: DA only

Much as I like Jeff Cooper, he is all messed up on this point. "Double action" means that the trigger pull performs two actions, a double action, if you will. It cocks and releases the hammer. That is why the long trigger pull on a DA/SA gun is referred to as "the double-action trigger pull;" the DA pull is the one that performs both actions. That's why a gun that only cocks during the trigger pull is called "Double Action Only."

Now, that one's out of the way.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Did you mispell banana just to provoke more argument?

Did you misspell "misspell" to provoke those of us who can spell?



And by the way -- "As much as I would like to say yes, I just don't know how to spell bannanna " is the funniest thing I've read in some time..........

 

[joab]

Did you misspell "misspell" to provoke those of us who can spell?

right back at ya Mike

 

[Eleven Mike]

It's about time you guys caught that. Normaly, I spel reel good.

 

[unspellable]

DA

Eleven Mike, can't buy it. An action in which pulling the trigger cocks and then releases the trigger is a self cocking action. A double action is one with two modes of operation, both cocked before pulling the trigger and self cocked. That's why the term "double action only" is an oxymoron. Doble action means there are two modes of operation. That's why my Daewoo is a triple action, it has three modes of operation.

The term double action was coined to describe a revolver with both precocked and self cocking actions. Very early on there were self cocking only revolvers and they were always referred to as self cocking, not double action. You are a victim of the very confusion I spoke of.

 

[Eleven Mike]

A double action is one with two modes of operation

No, it's a handgun in which the trigger can perform two actions, but I don't know how we can prove which definition is correct.

"Self-cocking" is just another term for "double action," and it might be a good way to describe DAO's, if only because it is shorter.

Why do we speak of the long trigger pull on a DA handgun as the double-action trigger pull? It is because in this case, the trigger is performing a double action. If you were correct, we would call them the long and short trigger pulls, and the term "double action trigger pull" would make no sense.

But like I said, we can't resolve this without more info to establish original intent; all we can do is insist on which definition makes sense to us.

 

[unspellable]

DA

It's a matter of priority. The self cocking action was invented first and was so called for a long time. When a revolver was developed with both manual cocking and self cocking actions it was called a double action because it had two "actions". Only then did was the term "single action" coined. Like wise a Daewoo is a triple action because it has three "actions".

Much later on (Probably post WWII.) people took to calling a self cocking action a "double action only" which leads to confusion. Now we cannot distinguish between a double action and a self cocking action with out adding more words to clarify. That's the drawback to sloppy usage. Not all changes in language are for the better.

At the risk of giving away my age I will say that I can remeber a time when the term "double action only" was rarely if ever heard. Where as "self cocking" can be found in print from the 19th Century.