mljdeckard
Member
No, at the moment they're not. We want to keep it that way.
Why Concealed Carry Permits Numbers are Soaring
- Thread starter Dean Weingarten
- Start date
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Radagast
Member
The federal govt has the power to mandate firearms training under the Militia Clause.
They don't have the power to make possession of firearms dependent on that training - the 2nd acts as a restriction on the Militia Clause, not the other way around.
That being said, accepting some sort of minimum training requirement to get a permit is a great step up from no permit at all.
Fabian Socialism has been much more successful in the west than international communism, although they shared the same end goal. If a technique works, use it. So treat permits and training requirements as a way point, not an end point. As soon as it is achieved, start re-negotiating. Remember, reasonable gun control is the goal! Its just our definition is the opposite of the antis.
They don't have the power to make possession of firearms dependent on that training - the 2nd acts as a restriction on the Militia Clause, not the other way around.
That being said, accepting some sort of minimum training requirement to get a permit is a great step up from no permit at all.
Fabian Socialism has been much more successful in the west than international communism, although they shared the same end goal. If a technique works, use it. So treat permits and training requirements as a way point, not an end point. As soon as it is achieved, start re-negotiating. Remember, reasonable gun control is the goal! Its just our definition is the opposite of the antis.
Lost Sheep
Member
Insanity in our legal system
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ace-gun-charges-shooting-pit-bull-att/?page=1
I know of one person whose tag line it "The Second Amendment IS my carry permit." In a Democracy, it is the citizenry's duty to make the laws conform to the right.
The O.P. has asked the right question. All of us must provide the answer, with our votes, our letters, our labors, our dollars. The Founding Fathers pledged "our lives, our forturnes, our sacred honor" so that we could have the privilege to live in a country where we had rights.
I use the word "privilege" advisedly.
r1derbike, thanks for posting your post that prompted me to think.
Lost Sheep
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ace-gun-charges-shooting-pit-bull-att/?page=1
I know of one person whose tag line it "The Second Amendment IS my carry permit." In a Democracy, it is the citizenry's duty to make the laws conform to the right.
The O.P. has asked the right question. All of us must provide the answer, with our votes, our letters, our labors, our dollars. The Founding Fathers pledged "our lives, our forturnes, our sacred honor" so that we could have the privilege to live in a country where we had rights.
I use the word "privilege" advisedly.
r1derbike, thanks for posting your post that prompted me to think.
Lost Sheep
Bobson
Member
Are you sure? I was under the impression that Alaska and Arizona had never passed laws to restrict the carry of a concealed firearm in the first place. If that's true, there was nothing incremental taking place. I understand that Wyoming is different in this regard.
I don't think I have my head in the sand (too dark), I do believe in there are many lessons to be learned from the past 40-50 years of liberal indoctrination that has taken place...and all of us have been subjected to it.
I've carried a pocket knife since I was 6 and took a .22 rifle to school on my bike as a cub scout. Nobody said a thing...except..."nice rifle. Earned it yourself?" Now, a kid chews a pop tart into the shape of a gun and is expelled. ?????
What if, as part of a safety awareness program, ALL children were required to go
thru a simple, basic informational "class?" Then safety reviews periodically.
Ya, I know...I said something like this before and some folks got upset. But, think about this: The way the anti-gun folks became so pervasive in our freedom blessed society was by indoctrinating CHILDREN with BAD info. Kids are not stupid...they're just ignorant of the facts...just like the many of the anti-gun folks who have been taught that "someone will save you in a bad situation...just wait." There's much misinformation passed on as fact...even here.
Take a play from their book...'cause they won the first round. That's why out of approx.
200 million adults, there's only between 2.5 to 3.5 million CHL holders.
I've carried a pocket knife since I was 6 and took a .22 rifle to school on my bike as a cub scout. Nobody said a thing...except..."nice rifle. Earned it yourself?" Now, a kid chews a pop tart into the shape of a gun and is expelled. ?????
What if, as part of a safety awareness program, ALL children were required to go
thru a simple, basic informational "class?" Then safety reviews periodically.
Ya, I know...I said something like this before and some folks got upset. But, think about this: The way the anti-gun folks became so pervasive in our freedom blessed society was by indoctrinating CHILDREN with BAD info. Kids are not stupid...they're just ignorant of the facts...just like the many of the anti-gun folks who have been taught that "someone will save you in a bad situation...just wait." There's much misinformation passed on as fact...even here.
Take a play from their book...'cause they won the first round. That's why out of approx.
200 million adults, there's only between 2.5 to 3.5 million CHL holders.
Last edited:
Beach Nut
Member
I got my concealed carry permit in 2010. With the revolving door criminal justice system
we have in place and so many individuals with drug and mental problems running loose
and free in today's society, I decided to become the first line of self defense for me and
my wife. Law enforcement has too much on their plate to come to the rescue in a
dangerous situation in the nick of time for the average citizen in most cases and I do
not want to feel helpless if me, my wife or my family are threatened. Now that I have
become accustomed to carrying a firearm in public, I could kick myself for not getting
a permit to carry years earlier. I have fallen in love with target shooting again (I have
always loved hunting) and I have bought several handguns and become more active
in supporting those who believe in protecting the Second Amendment. If I can just
get the wife motivated enough to get her concealed carry permit, I will feel even better
about my personal safety and hers as well.
we have in place and so many individuals with drug and mental problems running loose
and free in today's society, I decided to become the first line of self defense for me and
my wife. Law enforcement has too much on their plate to come to the rescue in a
dangerous situation in the nick of time for the average citizen in most cases and I do
not want to feel helpless if me, my wife or my family are threatened. Now that I have
become accustomed to carrying a firearm in public, I could kick myself for not getting
a permit to carry years earlier. I have fallen in love with target shooting again (I have
always loved hunting) and I have bought several handguns and become more active
in supporting those who believe in protecting the Second Amendment. If I can just
get the wife motivated enough to get her concealed carry permit, I will feel even better
about my personal safety and hers as well.
mljdeckard
Member
hedrok, the problem is, the government can place the bar anywhere they want to. Once you have ADMITTED that the government is allowed to put training requirements on your RIGHTS, they are no longer rights, they are privileges. If you say; "I agree that the government is allowed to require training before people are allowed to own guns." then the government will be able to place requirements so high on gun ownership, that few people, if any, will be able to fulfill them.
My grandmother just turned 90, and finally quit carrying, after about 15 years, because she agreed that her eyes just aren't that good anymore. But, if at 75, the government had told her she had to complete an intensive pistol training course to be allowed to carry a gun, she wouldn't have been able to. This means, it isn't a right at all, if the training requirement is set so high that she can't physically handle it. Does this mean that she no longer has the right to self-defense or the right to keep and bear arms?
If kids need firearms training, WE need to give it to them. The reason I got NRA certified, and certified by the state to teach concealed carry, was to be in a position to train anyone who needs it. Soldiers, housewives, school kids, grandmothers. WE need to step up and actively look for opportunities to train. We cannot entrust this responsibility to the government, they will mess it up anyway. The government doesn't want you to handle guns responsible. (Pay attention to this part,) THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT YOU TO HANDLE GUNS AT ALL.
My grandmother just turned 90, and finally quit carrying, after about 15 years, because she agreed that her eyes just aren't that good anymore. But, if at 75, the government had told her she had to complete an intensive pistol training course to be allowed to carry a gun, she wouldn't have been able to. This means, it isn't a right at all, if the training requirement is set so high that she can't physically handle it. Does this mean that she no longer has the right to self-defense or the right to keep and bear arms?
If kids need firearms training, WE need to give it to them. The reason I got NRA certified, and certified by the state to teach concealed carry, was to be in a position to train anyone who needs it. Soldiers, housewives, school kids, grandmothers. WE need to step up and actively look for opportunities to train. We cannot entrust this responsibility to the government, they will mess it up anyway. The government doesn't want you to handle guns responsible. (Pay attention to this part,) THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT YOU TO HANDLE GUNS AT ALL.
Dean Weingarten
Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2012
- Messages
- 423
Vermont has always had constitutional carry. Alaska was the first to go there incrementally, followed by Arizona and Wyoming. Several other states have passed constitutional carry through the legislature, only to have it vetoed by the governor. South Dakota and Utah are examples that come to mind.
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/04/louisiana-restaurant-offers-free-food.html
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/03/utsign-it-governor.html
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/03/constitutional-or-permitless-carry-in.html
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/04/louisiana-restaurant-offers-free-food.html
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/03/utsign-it-governor.html
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/03/constitutional-or-permitless-carry-in.html
If self protection is the goal...WE need to have a big say in the "bar placement" regardless of what the government wants. They work for us as well as people with other opinions.
Right now, however...the other side yells louder and over the course of time, my goal is to change that in a permanent way.
BTW, MLJ...I do not disagree with you at all. I am also an NRA instructor and spend most of my instructional time with kids from 6 yrs. up, because that's where the REAL change needs to come from to overcome 50 yrs. of BS from anti-gun folks.
At 68, I'll never see the results...but my two children will...and their eight children. I'm good with that.
Right now, however...the other side yells louder and over the course of time, my goal is to change that in a permanent way.
BTW, MLJ...I do not disagree with you at all. I am also an NRA instructor and spend most of my instructional time with kids from 6 yrs. up, because that's where the REAL change needs to come from to overcome 50 yrs. of BS from anti-gun folks.
At 68, I'll never see the results...but my two children will...and their eight children. I'm good with that.
mljdeckard
Member
No. We can't allow the bar to be there at all.
In a perfect world...right...no bar.
But we live in a world (read "country") where others have a say...just like we would like to think we have a say.
Like I said in an earlier post...Ya gotta SELL your idea to the masses. The way the worm turned was by anti-gunners getting into the entire educational system with their side of the argument while we stood around all full of ourselves and overconfident sayin' "chew tobacco, chew tobacco, chew tobacco-spit!!
The only way you or anyone else is going to turn the worm back is by getting the young people to not be afraid..but be familiar and respectful and participate in... firearms and the shooting sports. The kids will bring their parents along...and that is the opportunity to reintroduce THEM to what they should have learned. It won't work every time...but ya gotta start somewhere.
If we don't work smart...we'll lose again and it
may well be 2 strikes and you're out and we'll all be speaking a different language in 25 years 'cause nobody will be manning the fort.
But we live in a world (read "country") where others have a say...just like we would like to think we have a say.
Like I said in an earlier post...Ya gotta SELL your idea to the masses. The way the worm turned was by anti-gunners getting into the entire educational system with their side of the argument while we stood around all full of ourselves and overconfident sayin' "chew tobacco, chew tobacco, chew tobacco-spit!!
The only way you or anyone else is going to turn the worm back is by getting the young people to not be afraid..but be familiar and respectful and participate in... firearms and the shooting sports. The kids will bring their parents along...and that is the opportunity to reintroduce THEM to what they should have learned. It won't work every time...but ya gotta start somewhere.
If we don't work smart...we'll lose again and it
may well be 2 strikes and you're out and we'll all be speaking a different language in 25 years 'cause nobody will be manning the fort.
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