Why confiscation won't work

[Tirod]

We've discussed one aspect of how confiscation will fail, in as much as a discussion of armed insurrection, or more correctly, regaining control of the government against political terrorists manipulation.

Not the point.

Every panic or sell out - like this Black Fridays record setting NICS checks - shows us something nobody is talking about. Well, if the disarmament crowd wants to trot out "confiscation" then why in the world would a citizen who is subject to the imperial might of the misguided Republic then spend $1000 on a gun that will be taken away in just a few short years?

Seems like a bad purchase. Why not buy Cabbage Patch dolls? Or vintage dinette sets?

Well, in light of the fact that most NY state residents are blatantly ignoring the "law" requiring them to register their evil black rifles, I speculate that most citizens are buying more AR's because they have no intent to register or turn them in. Ever.

We are hoarding them back and don't plan on house to house confiscation to even happen. And if it does, good luck! It will take either a search radar scanning every wall, ceiling, and crawlspace to find them - or complete demolition of the house.

Like they say, when they outlaw guns . . .

Now, in one view of the rules here, we can't support illegal activities. In another, turning in your gun would constitute cooperating with an illegal and unconstitutional act.

We just keep drawing more lines in the sand, don't we? Really no different than Nazi Germany, first they outlawed guns, then they started outlawing PEOPLE.

We HAVE reached that point - we ARE attempting to prevent names on a no fly list from buying guns. We may not like the people on that list, but it IS depriving them of their Constitutional Rights without any jury trial. Is that legal?

Another line in the sand.

I, for one, don't see it happening. Not enough search teams for one thing, not enough time to really search a building, not enough cooperation from the resident who might be displaying said firearms to be confiscated with the remark they will turn them over when they are pried from their cold

Oh well, you get it.

Celebrate the continued sales, in fact, enjoy the next panic if you already have enough to get by. You are watching the American citizen do exactly what they do BEST - vote with their dollars.

Not one plans on turning the gun in anytime in the future. Nope. Despite the extremist rantings of some old socialists who run a declining media outlet.

 

[stoky]

Door to door confiscation isn't necessary. It can be an unfathomable patchwork of laws, regulations and executive orders, federal, state, and or municipalities, civil and or criminal.
Those who can afford more expensive lawyers have more rights.
It could be a farcical catch as catch can, not unlike the decades old war on some drugs.

 

[yugorpk]

Because I wont turn anything in no will probably anyone I know. Thats why.

 

[HoosierQ]

Confiscation won't work because just about anybody could make a WWII era STEN gun. It'd be devilishly hard to make a Colt Python or a P08 Luger. But a STEN gun would practically make itself.

"If guns are outlawed, only outlaws would have STEN guns" kind of a thing.

 

[stoky]

There are only fifty thousand people on the no fly list.
There are over a million on the terrorist watch list.
the next step

 

[psyopspec]

Is there a specific legislative proposal that's got you on about door to door confiscation? Or is this some sort of hypothetical for its own anxiety-ridden sake? If the former, let me know and I'll be the first to contact the reps and head to the marches. If the latter, well, yawn.

The no-fly list prohibition on purchases appears to be a non-starter, and doesn't include confiscation as proposed. And lest we take the NYT front page editorial too seriously, the response from many liberal individuals and media outlets says it was largely regarded as the poorly written drivel it was. Not worth getting anyone's knickers in a twist over, and I think it ultimately did 2A a lot of good.

 

[stoky]

Then there's the fellow that got fourteen years for 3d gun printing software.
not making the guns, possessing the software

 

[MachIVshooter]

Why confiscation won't work

Of course it won't. Never would have, and our opponents know that-even the ones squawking for it after this most recent tragedy.

The anti gunners took a lesson from the '94 butt whoopin', and they have been playing the long game. They know darned well they can't outlaw guns, especially after Heller and McDonald. They also know that federal legislation is a losing battle at this time. That's why they're going after susceptible states and using an incremental approach. Bloomberg spent millions ramming through two pieces of garbage legislation here, and they consider the recalls and loss of Senate control an acceptable price to pay. Nothing will happen for awhile, until they feel the time is right. Then they'll push again.

Same thing in other "moderate" or "purple" states, like Washington and Oregon.

They know their goal cannot be achieve in a year, or even a decade. But over a couple of generations, the piecemeal approach will seriously erode 2A if we don't fight it at every front.

It's a classic case of the frog in a pot analogy.

 

[yokel]

Waiting for “That Day”?

Well, there isn't gonna be a “that day.” The tyranny upon us has been building, one brick at a time. “They” have no plans for “that day.” Things are progressing just fine for the people at Treason Incorporated. What matters to them is the slow erosion of our constitutional republic and its equally slow replacement with their administrative regime. Anybody waiting for “that day” will find themselves surrounded by a brick wall of tyranny out of which they will no longer be able to shoot!

 

[HoosierQ]

Then there's the fellow that got fourteen years for 3d gun printing software.
not making the guns, possessing the software

That was not in the USA.

 

[stoky]

yet

 

[Dain Bramage]

Then there's the fellow that got fourteen years for 3d gun printing software.
not making the guns, possessing the software

And no one has been charged or convicted. It's a proposed law in one Australian state.

However, I do agree it is an excellent example of the sort of Orwellian nonsense that they will try in the "death of a thousand cuts" before any door to door confiscation starts. Why attack a strong opponent when you can weaken or kill him before the confrontation?

 

[ROAshooter]

Turning

Not only do I see confiscation not working..I am seeing a turning of mindsets.
How many have seen in the news .... public officials....Police Chiefs...Sheriffs....advocating
MORE licensed concealed carry.

Here in Oklahoma, a Sheriff posted on his face book....for Oklahomans to be prepared and arm themselves

 

[TimSr]

Before you can draw any conclusions, to have to first determine whether the gun control chorus, and fear of new laws that is driving sales, or whether its because another terrorist attack (that they couldn't call something else) has occurred on the homeland, and buyers are thinking they might want to have one around.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Door to door confiscation isn't necessary. It can be an unfathomable patchwork of laws, regulations and executive orders, federal, state, and or municipalities, civil and or criminal.
Those who can afford more expensive lawyers have more rights.
It could be a farcical catch as catch can, not unlike the decades old war on some drugs.

This^
It will work like the no-fly-list. Just too much of a burden to deal with. People stop flying when they get on the list. I know. When AR's and AK's are banned people will stop buying and using them. If you have to register an AR or AK to use it legally you won't be looking to purchase one. If you have one you probably won't register it but you won't let it see the light of day and you won't be telling your neighbor you have it either.

It just won't be worth keeping it around to get prosecuted for having it. Most people will go quietly.

If any gov't official is interested, I don't have an AR so don't bother me about it.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

So, what are you doing to make that NOT happen?

I'm not talking stockpiling ammo or hiding guns in walls. If we get to that point, we have LOST. Hiding in the closet only ensures that current gun owners are the last generation of gun owners.

Polls are showing increased support for RKBA and decreased support for restrictions. Let's keep that going.

I've got two co-workers I'm working on who aren't gun owners. One fired his first gun a few weeks ago when I took him to the range. Now he's asking how to buy one. Another I haven't gotten to the range yet and I don't think has shot anything - ever, but she is interested to learn. Wants to learn how to defend herself.

I also typed out a letter to my representatives in Washington while listening to Obama give his recent address.

There will always be people who want to beat all the swords into plowshares. They debated weapons control in ancient Rome! The debate will never go away so long as humans exist. We just need more people who think otherwise. We have to win the hearts and minds. If we don't win the hearts and minds of our fellow Americans, what makes you think that any of the gun control doomsday scenarios out there will end in our favor?

 

[psyopspec]

I agree with ROAshooter on the importance of keeping things in perspective. We have more constitution carry states than at any point in any living American's lifetime, a healthy rate of lawful gun ownership, and more resources than ever to separate BS from bias. And a surprising number of people, thankfully many of them young folks, do just that.

There have been plenty of outright crises of civil liberties in modern history; plenty even in the time I've been a member of this web site. What's also abounded from time to time is chicken-little gloom and doom. I've discovered that (1) none of it is worth getting stressed over, (2) especially the inarticulate or imagined threats, and (3) it's vital to differentiate the actual from the possible and weigh the right response.

 

[Jolly Rogers]

Can't confiscate what was lost in the tragic boating accident...
Joe

 

[Ignition Override]

Jolly Rogers:

True. And despite the tiny chance that it could happen in the distant future, only people buying from FFLs or C&Rs would ever have to sweat it, unless they dig a hole a foot deep, into the undergrowth in a state park etc.

Besides the other obvious (?) reason, purchases done in person/ATF
also allow a much wider selection of milsurp handguns and rifles.

 

[sequins]

My FFL would likely burn his documents before he turned them over to the ATF to use as a means of identifying me to come and take my gun... none of it is digital.

I don't think they'll ever come for them, and why would they? Talk to a 13yr old from a blue state and ask them what they have been taught about guns and you can see the real strategy at play. Hunting is almost over with culturally, at least in my area. I've only met two hunters in my life.

 

[The Alaskan]

only people buying from FFLs or C&Rs would ever have to sweat it, unless they dig a hole a foot deep, into the undergrowth in a state park etc.

Besides the other obvious (?) reason, FTF purchases also allow a much wider selection of milsurp handguns and rifles.

The problem with FTF purchases, at least to my observation, is that, these days, sellers are requiring a photocopy of the buyer's driver's license and requiring the buyer to sign a bill of sale. I an only surmise that the eller is then scanning that and saving it on a hard drive somewhere for "that day" when ATF comes and asks "where is this gun?"

As for the broader topic, you know what truly scares me about the idea of confiscation? It's the notion that it would cause more bloodshed. My fear is that so many people would violently resist that it would turn into to dozens, if not hundreds, of Wacos and Ruby Ridges all across America.

 

[McAngus]

WE surely do vote with our dollars, that was a really fine point there. But I actually still think it is a possibility, movement towards confiscation. Maybe not in our lifetime, maybe kids, grandchildren, etc etc. Maybe it is so far down the road, one could agree, "Who cares?"

If Bernie gets in, it aint panic mode, it is the real deal. It will show that the political range reach FARRRRRRR LEFT. and I mean FARRRRRRR

 

[Deanimator]

As for the broader topic, you know what truly scares me about the idea of confiscation? It's the notion that it would cause more bloodshed. My fear is that so many people would violently resist that it would turn into to dozens, if not hundreds, of Wacos and Ruby Ridges all across America.

No, it would turn into dozens of Little Bighorns, Isandlhwanas and Adowas.

Sometimes the bad guys LOSE...

 

[X-Rap]

I see a rather anaemic resistance from those to old to matter.
There is no need of door to door action when the penalties for possession is so harsh that no one dares to violate the law.
How many of us will defy the gov if it means loss of your property or finances as a penalty?
Those laws exist for other violations today.

 

[Deanimator]

There is no need of door to door action when the penalties for possession is so harsh that no one dares to violate the law.

What are the penalties for murder?