Why did top eject pistols go out of style?

[Flechette]

I saw a fun video on making Han Solo's gun out of a Mauser:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6EQQnkUGIk

The Mauser is a top eject design as were other pistols of that era (like the Luger, Savage .45).

It got me thinking, why did pistols adopt right side ejections? Many people are not right handed, and the symmetry of a top eject makes it an inherently more robust design. The slide has symmetrical stress loads on either side.

I have never heard anything about them being less reliable...

 

[DPris]

You like brass bouncing off your head while you're shooting?
Denis

 

[LoonWulf]

only when its mine

Ive never shot a top ejecting pistol. The first time a 94 droped a shell on my head it was a bit of a surprise.....not nearly as big a surprise, as the first time i seen a mini...it was to my left.

 

[Flechette]

You like brass bouncing off your head while you're shooting?
Denis

I did not see any brass hitting the shooter in the video.

 

[AZAndy]

I have a Springfield 1911 that thinks it's a top ejector. Definitely have to wear a hat with that one. I've had hot brass lodge behind my glasses (ouch!) and sometimes it will land in my shirt pocket. What I'd like to have is a bottom ejector-- sure would be handy for retrieving empties.

 

[NRA_guy]

a. Top mount optics interference?

b. Loose collar tops---especially on lady shooters?

 

[243winxb]

The Luger toggle , on firing, blocks out the sights. Slows the sight recovery for the next shot. And you loose sight of the target. Did the perpetrator duck behind cover on the left or the right.

 

[cfullgraf]

Berettas like the M84 and M92/96 are still open top although the ejector is located on the side of the frame.

I'd say customers getting sprayed with hot cases was the main reason. It is not pleasant to get in the forehead with cases or having them drop down a shirt collar.

Under recoil, I doubt the toggle link on a Luger would block the sight picture any worse than the entire gun does anyway. Well, maybe an artillery Luger when the rifle butt stock is attached, the toggle link might get in the way of the sight picture.

 

[bannockburn]

I would have to think that top eject meant a greater likelihood of having hot brass right back at you. Not a good thing and can be downright distracting to have that happen to you while your shooting!

 

[tark]

Flechette, have you ever fires a Broomhandle? I have put over 4000 rounds through my shooter broomie, and I can speak with some authority on the subject.

Suffice it to say I wear a broad brimmed straw hat when shooting the thing. It is quite rare, honestly, for the brass to come down and actually HIT you. It usually lands behind you. But it only takes ONE down your shirt and a bad burn to bring out the straw hat, and that happened to me early on.

As to what's wrong with top eject and why nobody does it, my answer is; nothing and I don't know. I like top eject because the brass usually lands closer to the shooter. Easier to find.

I would not reject a pistol design just because it is top eject.

 

[muzzleblast...]

Somebody's got to ask...

So, it that a picture of YOUR Savage 1907 .45 ACP U.S. Army test trial pistol????

 

[Malamute]

It got me thinking, why did pistols adopt right side ejections? Many people are not right handed, and the symmetry of a top eject makes it an inherently more robust design. The slide has symmetrical stress loads on either side.

A theoretical advantage, but the success of the various angled or side ejection pistols indicates its not a real concern in actual use.

Most people are right handed, very little in the gun design world has been specifically directed towards making it easier for left handed shooters.

 

[RX-79G]

I don't see why it is a more robust design. On a top locking design like a 1911 it is stronger to have metal running across the top.

 

[Flechette]

The Luger toggle , on firing, blocks out the sights. Slows the sight recovery for the next shot. And you loose sight of the target. Did the perpetrator duck behind cover on the left or the right.

Yeah, but the Luger is such a cool gun! I think there would be a market for them if someone made a new production run.

 

[Flechette]

Somebody's got to ask...

So, it that a picture of YOUR Savage 1907 .45 ACP U.S. Army test trial pistol????

I got the picture off of an interesting website: Forgottenweapons.com:

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/17069_1183_2_lg.jpg

It is a very interesting pistol. It uses a rotating barrel to unlock the breach and the rifling direction spins up the bullet to provide the locking inertia.

 

[Flechette]

Flechette, have you ever fires a Broomhandle? I have put over 4000 rounds through my shooter broomie, and I can speak with some authority on the subject.

Suffice it to say I wear a broad brimmed straw hat when shooting the thing. It is quite rare, honestly, for the brass to come down and actually HIT you. It usually lands behind you. But it only takes ONE down your shirt and a bad burn to bring out the straw hat, and that happened to me early on.

As to what's wrong with top eject and why nobody does it, my answer is; nothing and I don't know. I like top eject because the brass usually lands closer to the shooter. Easier to find.

I would not reject a pistol design just because it is top eject.

No, I have not had the privilege to fire a Broomhandle. My only experience is watching the video I included.

In the slow motion section showing the action I did not see any brass that looks like it would be a hazard to the shooter, hence the original question.

 

[Jim Watson]

Colt 1907 prototype had near vertical ejection at Army request.
Rather have brass falling on you and your horse than surprising the next trooper and his horse?

 

[barnbwt]

The Steyr-Hahn is another, that incidentally loads from the top as well

"The Luger toggle , on firing, blocks out the sights. Slows the sight recovery for the next shot. And you loose sight of the target. Did the perpetrator duck behind cover on the left or the right."
Yup, slows down the sight acquisition so badly that the toggle motion usually can't be captured on video (the tiny blade & post sights are the actual reason)

TCB

 

[splattergun]

I suppose we would have to classify the ejection port of my Ruger P89 as 'side eject', but the top is also open. The ejection trajectory is at a diagonal to the rear and, depending on the load I'm using, the trajectory can be vertical-to-the-rear. I have a couple light loads that will actually hit my safety glasses or put the brass in my pocket, or down my shirt. My favorite load throws the brass 2 or 3 feet to my 4 o'clock.

So yeah, I can understand why top ejectors are out of fashion.

 

[WestKentucky]

Hot brass traveling down your back inside of a tucked in shirt seems to funnel its way right into the crack. Ever had hot brass in your crack? That's why they go out the side now.

 

[Sigokat]

I get hit with brass less frequently with my Benelli B76, than I do with any Glock I own.

 

[barnbwt]

That's a good point; good design means the brass goes forward, regardless, so it's a non-issue. And given the current fad for ambidexterity, you'd think there would be more of an appetite for top eject designs (not to mention the fact that barrel-hood-locking schemes like the SIG and Glock are better suited to this layout than the current one). Not to mention the fact that having solid sides of the slide means they can be thinner.

TCB

 

[Flechette]

That's a good point; good design means the brass goes forward, regardless, so it's a non-issue. And given the current fad for ambidexterity, you'd think there would be more of an appetite for top eject designs (not to mention the fact that barrel-hood-locking schemes like the SIG and Glock are better suited to this layout than the current one). Not to mention the fact that having solid sides of the slide means they can be thinner.

TCB

Many of today's pistols could use thinner sides. Using an IWB holster will illustrate this quite well.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

You like brass bouncing off your head while you're shooting?

This past season, I shot my C96 Broomhandle in seven black powder cartridge matches (two 10 shot targets each) and in the last vintage military pistol match (three 10 shot targets) total 170 rounds. I shot my .45 1911A1 replica in the first six vintage military pistol matches for 180 rounds. I got no brass hitting my head from the C96, two from the .45 hit my forehead. I caught two brass from the C96 in open shirt pockets and found one behind my belt buckle.

I always wear safety goggles and a BDU shirt untucked. After getting a .45 brass on the nape of my neck (the burn left a scab during healing) I did wear a baseball stype cap with the bill turned over the nape of my neck but fell out of that habit.

Two added observations:
C96 top eject is out of fashion but retro cool.
The ejection pattern of brass from my cousin's Mini-14 keeps his right front flank well covered.

 

[MedWheeler]

First thing several of us cops noticed about the Grendel P10 back when they came out and we got them on a department deal was that they aimed the brass right at the forehead. I guess top-eject was necessary in these because they are also top-loaders.