That's exactly what I was thinking. I would need to bow down and say "We're not worthy!"
Why did top eject pistols go out of style?
- Thread starter Flechette
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ny32182
Member
Sound like it would be a major distraction to quick sight re acquisition between shots.
tbob38
Member
Several of my Glocks think they are top ejectors.
Side ejection is superior to top ejection - when it works correctly. You can't blame the concept for being bad when it's a problem of execution.
For every Glock that ejects straight back, there are a ton of Berettas, 1911s, BHPs, SIGs, etc that eject in the right direction.
For every Glock that ejects straight back, there are a ton of Berettas, 1911s, BHPs, SIGs, etc that eject in the right direction.
cougar1717
Member
Our forefathers wrote many short letters and notes to each other decrying various problems they had with their smokeless firearms. Having very few safeties or devices to indicate whether the firearm was loaded, their efforts concentrated on warning each other numerous times about:
1. Never use a newfangled aluminum cleaning rod - the wood ones will not damage the bore.
2. Never shoot lead bullets in Austro-Hungarian made handguns.
3. Always make sure your 7.62 Mauser ammo is crimped to prevent bullet setback.
4. 9mm Luger is the best manstopper period and should not be questioned as 7.62 Mauser and 7.65 Browning will just make a combatant angry.
5. And finally, some top loaders incur a condition called "brass to head" or BTH. Neither Luger nor Sauer and Sohn will admit that there is a problem, although it is widespread among those in the loop.
P5 Guy
Member
Walther's P38 and P5 eject left which everyone that knows, know this is superior to right or top ejection.
rbernie
Contributing Member
You can't see the toggle motion while shooting it, and I can no more (or less) see the brass ejecting from it than I can from my Glocks.
I always suspected that some bright lads decided that dust/dirt would be less of an issue with a closed-top slide.
tipoc
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The reason for the dominance of one over the other has to do with the dominance of the Browning type tilting barrel recoil system over the others.
On Browning designs the extractor is placed on the right side of the slide and the ejector is placed on the left side of the frame. As the fired case is pulled from the chamber the case tilts upward and to the right. The ejector then expels the case upward and further to the right. This means that the case must eject up and to the right. Rather than straight up, or up and to the left.
On some designs the extractor is on the top of the slide and as it pulls the case from the chamber it tilts upward, the ejector is placed on a centerline (or close) of the frame. So the empty case goes straight up or up with a bias slight one way or the other.
The Army did want a more top ejection for reasons mentioned earlier. Originally the ejection port was smaller. It was lowered by gunsmiths over the decades to increase reliability and later flared to prevent case banging. This also made it go more to the right.
By custom now most guns don't top eject. Better that way due to optics.
Sometimes I do get hit by ejected cases. I treat it like rain. I'm used to being hit by hot chips at work. I'm more often hit by cases that bounce off the wall of the booth at a range than anything else.
You never see the toggle move on a Luger. It's a blur, at best, and gone before any human can react to it one way or the other.
tipoc
On Browning designs the extractor is placed on the right side of the slide and the ejector is placed on the left side of the frame. As the fired case is pulled from the chamber the case tilts upward and to the right. The ejector then expels the case upward and further to the right. This means that the case must eject up and to the right. Rather than straight up, or up and to the left.
On some designs the extractor is on the top of the slide and as it pulls the case from the chamber it tilts upward, the ejector is placed on a centerline (or close) of the frame. So the empty case goes straight up or up with a bias slight one way or the other.
The Army did want a more top ejection for reasons mentioned earlier. Originally the ejection port was smaller. It was lowered by gunsmiths over the decades to increase reliability and later flared to prevent case banging. This also made it go more to the right.
By custom now most guns don't top eject. Better that way due to optics.
Sometimes I do get hit by ejected cases. I treat it like rain. I'm used to being hit by hot chips at work. I'm more often hit by cases that bounce off the wall of the booth at a range than anything else.
You never see the toggle move on a Luger. It's a blur, at best, and gone before any human can react to it one way or the other.
tipoc
Schwing
Member
Being cross dominant (right handed and left eyed), I bounce brass off of my forehead on a regular basis. Somehow I don't think top eject handguns would be any better or worse for me
Years ago at my gun club a fellow at the shooting table next to me, was letting his rather busty girlfriend wearing a tank top shoot his Beretta 1934 .380. She was standing rather than sitting, no hat. Hot brass dropped, as was predictable down her top, she proceeded to dance about waving that gun and eventually dropping the pistol. Luckily it did not go off.
He giggled at her... I doubt he got to see her assets again for quite awhile. I am just glad the gun did not go off when she was dancing about or when she dropped it.
He giggled at her... I doubt he got to see her assets again for quite awhile. I am just glad the gun did not go off when she was dancing about or when she dropped it.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
I've never seen a side eject firearm catch a falling case in it's own action. Hang out around old school lever gun shooters enough and you'll see it happen.
TRX
Member
The explanation I was given was that there were two reasons:
A) the possibility that the ejected case could fall back into the gun and have to be cleared
B) for soldiers firing behind cover, the brass popping up gave away their position.
Neither seems particularly likely, though.
A) the possibility that the ejected case could fall back into the gun and have to be cleared
B) for soldiers firing behind cover, the brass popping up gave away their position.
Neither seems particularly likely, though.
barnbwt
member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
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- 7,340
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChiUl-oFD5A
This thread needs a slow-mo of Glock Brass to Face (TM)
Also a VZ61, which solved the conundrum by emptying a magazine before the first falling round comes anywhere near the ejection port
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtRM14wf6cg&feature=youtu.be
And of course the insane cyclic rate of the PPSH41, showing that it kicks the brass forward (a full 71rnd drum can empty before the first case lands, I'm told), mostly likely because the bolt is already returning before the case has left the action
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeGvxZWlL2U
Also the Swiss K31, which plays catch with you;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMhGnbe2Vrw
This thread needs a slow-mo of Glock Brass to Face (TM)
Also a VZ61, which solved the conundrum by emptying a magazine before the first falling round comes anywhere near the ejection port
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtRM14wf6cg&feature=youtu.be
And of course the insane cyclic rate of the PPSH41, showing that it kicks the brass forward (a full 71rnd drum can empty before the first case lands, I'm told), mostly likely because the bolt is already returning before the case has left the action
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeGvxZWlL2U
Also the Swiss K31, which plays catch with you;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMhGnbe2Vrw
Vern Humphrey
Member
Where the ejected brass goes is more a matter of timing than anything else.
As the slide recoils, it is going more or less straight back, and pulling the brass with it. Once the brass is clear of the chamber, it wants to continue straight back. The ejector will give it a nudge sideways, but what really controls the ejection pattern is the forward motion of the slide. If the slide contacts the brass as it goes forward, it will change the path of the brass from straight back to sideways or even a bit forward.
If the slide does not contact the brass, be sure to be wearing glasses an a cap with a bill. And keep your collar buttoned.
As the slide recoils, it is going more or less straight back, and pulling the brass with it. Once the brass is clear of the chamber, it wants to continue straight back. The ejector will give it a nudge sideways, but what really controls the ejection pattern is the forward motion of the slide. If the slide contacts the brass as it goes forward, it will change the path of the brass from straight back to sideways or even a bit forward.
If the slide does not contact the brass, be sure to be wearing glasses an a cap with a bill. And keep your collar buttoned.
Grunt
Member
Well first off, you have to remember that left handed people exist in todays society simply because we don't throw them off cliffs at birth anymore.
But seriously though, top ejection means that what goes up, must come down and in many cases, it's on top of the shooters head! We had a Czech Scorpion machine pistol at the Special Operations School in Hurlburt Field that while was a blast to shoot would reward you with a shower of hot brass raining down around your head. It's a much better system when you have brass being flung away from the shooter rather than down on top of them.
But seriously though, top ejection means that what goes up, must come down and in many cases, it's on top of the shooters head! We had a Czech Scorpion machine pistol at the Special Operations School in Hurlburt Field that while was a blast to shoot would reward you with a shower of hot brass raining down around your head. It's a much better system when you have brass being flung away from the shooter rather than down on top of them.- Status
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