Why do good AKs cost as much as ARs?

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GTSteve03

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Ok, a bit of a rant here.

I've been pricing AKs online due to wanting to acquire one before someone gets the bright idea to ban them again. However, it seems like the price on AKs has gotten ridiculous.

I can't find anything other than a POS WASR for under $600. I could seriously buy a stripped AR lower and a full basic build kit for that price. Not that I would want an AR to begin with, but since when are AKs as expensive? I thought that was part of their appeal?

Sure, there's the Saiga, but it's $250 with no mods, and if I want to get someone to convert it for me, it's going to run over $600 easy. The Polish and Bulgarian rifles are now at least that much, heck the Arsenals are up near $1000. What's the deal?

:banghead:
 
The good ones are worth it!! I've had five different AKs and now am down to just two. Both are converted Saigas one a 223 and one a 7.62X51 (308). Buy the bare bones Saiga and the whole conversion including a barrel threading die and nice muzzle brake, pistol grip, galil type handguards, new stock, G2 trigger group and full instructions ran me around $350. If interested pm me and I'll send you the link on where to get the stuff. All told, the full conversion took me about three hours.
 
I've converted a Saiga before. I didn't have a problem with the pistol grip and stock, my issue was with getting the trigger guard attached again. I couldn't get underneath the mag release to attach it to the receiver.

I also had no way of drilling/tapping the trunnion to attach the feed ramp. Then, if I wanted to tap/thread the muzzle, the front sight assembly would be too far back unless I wanted to leave a gap. I would rather save myself the trouble and have a pro do it, then they could at least refinish it for me. My finish was just high-temp grill paint, not all that sturdy.
 
Rifles from American companies built with foreign parts kits on American made receivers still mean paying American wages to the folks who assemble them, manufacture the receivers (and now barrels, too), etc. The cost differential for manufacturers compared to an AR or whatever else just aren't as big as if we were talking about assembled AKs coming into the country fresh from Chinese slave-labor camps (or countries where wages are just much less than in the US and other western nations).
 
Get a Yugo. I got mine for just over $500, but they can be had online for the mid 4's. Much better finished than a WASR, and can be had with an Underfolder (my preference) or a regular stock.
 
I agree, it's rediculous considering they probably cost like $35 to manufacture...Ok probably not $35 but still pretty cheap compared to a forged and milled AR!!??
 
Economics can be the result of unseen forces, or to put it less ominously, supply and demand include things we don't always see directly.

Although the AR is more sophisticated, and because it's so good, it is mass-produced in this country on a large scale. AKs are not mass-produced ion this country, so they're more of a cottage industry, yet there are enough buyers to gobble them up pretty fast. Supply verses demand does not give a rat's behind about objective quality or anything else.

I've often commented on the fact that the most expensive saxophone you could buy (I spent over 30 years in the music business) was a fraction of the price of a moderately expensive flute.

Easy: Saxophones are far more difficult to build, so only the very high-end production facility can make them at all. A flute, on the other hand, is mostly a cylindrical tube with keys that can be hand-made far more easily. There are tons of real, hand-made flutes, and some of them are good while others are less good, but the high-end is defined by the best hand-made instruments and they're REALLY expensive.

So don't just look at the technology or what you perceive as the quality as what should determine the price. Economics is often more a matter of enthusiasm.

And that is today's **Word of the Day** (enter drum roll with fanfare - throw confetti):

Enthusiasm.

A. There is apparently more enthusiasm for a good, American-assembled AK than its empirical "quality" (if there is such a thing) would lead some to believe.

B. There are a ton of really good ARs being built here, and they are selling in larger numbers in a more heated, competitive market.

C. U.S. import restrictions artifically influence the price of any imported parts, which is where all "American" AKs come from.
 
You can buy a 2GB thumb drive for just a few bucks right now - it's the result of such high technology that it is beyond the imaginations of most of us, to say nothing of our ability to actually build anything even a ten-thousandth as capable, digitally speaking.

But you'll pay a few thousand dollars for a hand-made, wooden flute of the Baroque era design (one or no keys).
 
To me an AK is an AK. They're rugged and crude. I bought a $199 single stack WASR and opened up the magwell with a dremel. It functions 100% and is just as good as any higher end AK I've owned. I just bought a Noveske AR, I don't mind paying top dollar for a return, but an AK is an AK.
 
Because they are as good as AR's!

My most expensive AK is an Bulgarian made Arsenal SLR-95 and although it wasn't as expnsive as my Bushy AR it was still over $600. It was worth every penney and if it had cost me as much as my Bushmaster it still would have been worth it!

Bulgi-AK-art.gif
ArsenalAK4.jpg
 
Because they are as good as AR's!
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I don't wanna come off sounding like an AK hater, because I'm not at all, but I have to disagree. A high end AK can't do anything better than a high end AR. I can't think of one thing. The AR has the edge in accuracy, ergonomics, optics mounting, versatility (upper switching), and accuracy (worth mentioning twice).
 
Neither of these rifles are crude.

Arsenal SA M5:

SA-M5.jpg

Arsenal SLR-101SG (to which I added an Ace stock):

slr101sg-ace-folder.jpg

Both are well constructed, finely finished firearms made with receivers milled from forged billets of steel. They are as nicely made as my Colt AR-15A3. Just because a WASR is stamped out of sheet metal and roughly finished doesn't mean all AKs are like that.
 
I don't wanna come off sounding like an AK hater, because I'm not at all, but I have to disagree. A high end AK can't do anything better than a high end AR. I can't think of one thing. The AR has the edge in accuracy, ergonomics, optics mounting, versatility (upper switching), and accuracy (worth mentioning twice).
Click to expand...
True

IMO they are pretty evenly matched, the AR has its benifits over the AK but I think the AK has some befits over the AR. Of course I'm thinking also of the age old debate of the M16 vs AK. For civilan use I suppose the AR is more practical.
 
A 600 dollar AR will not out perform a 600 dollar AK. Most of the 600 dollar AR's I've seen have been jammomatic parts kit guns which I wouldn't trust my life to. When you get up into the $1000+ AR's is the place where you see real improvement over the AK in significant areas... and honestly, if we were to put that kind of money into an AK, I'm fairly certain it would do just as well. Heavy barrel, match ammo, ambi safety, Ultimak, red dot, etc...

My Yugo M95 can hang with any M4 in terms of accuracy, given equal ammo. I know the .308 Vepr's are also DARN accurate given a shooter who knows what he is doing and good ammo.
 
Gun Wielding Maniac wrote:

A 600 dollar AR will not out perform a 600 dollar AK. Most of the 600 dollar AR's I've seen have been jammomatic parts kit guns which I wouldn't trust my life to. When you get up into the $1000+ AR's is the place where you see real improvement over the AK in significant areas... and honestly, if we were to put that kind of money into an AK, I'm fairly certain it would do just as well. Heavy barrel, match ammo, ambi safety, Ultimak, red dot, etc...

My Yugo M95 can hang with any M4 in terms of accuracy, given equal ammo. I know the .308 Vepr's are also DARN accurate given a shooter who knows what he is doing and good ammo.
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I dunno... I've seen FAR too many sub-1K ARs work fine. It seems that most of the things that shoot the price of an AR above $1K have more to do with features than reliability.


-- John
 
I admit that I have a lot more experience with the AK platform than the AR platform, but I have shot AR's a fair amount (and cleaned one a couple times), and it seems to me that while a clean AR is quite reliable, the AR platform is less tolerant of adverse conditions (due to tighter clearances, low-mass/low-energy cycling, and a short stroke), somewhat more prone to parts breakage (compare the locking lugs of an AK to an AR...no wonder AR bolt lugs develop metal fatigue so quickly), and much more difficult to clean and maintain under adverse conditions (if you are cleaning an AR in the field and you drop that tiny little cotter pin in leaf litter, you are screwed--and the AR's barrel extension is a pain in the kiester to clean even under ideal conditions). Certainly the AR's susceptibility to dirt is overstated and the AK's is understated, but I think there is some mechanical basis for the difference. The AK's mags are also, generally speaking, more robust.

From a usability standpoint, the AR has an ergonomic edge, but the AK's disadvantages are not as severe as one might think if one adapts to the platform (i.e., run the bolt with your left hand, etc.).

For me, the initial reason I ended up with an AK rather than an AR is price; I simply could not afford even the cheapest AR, but I could afford a SAR-1. One can quibble about the relative merits of a $900 AK vs. a $900 AR, but there is no question that a $350 AK beats $350 of AR parts hands-down...
 
I think a quality example of both weapons would far exceed in accuracy what the average shooter could get out of it.
 
Hit or miss in quality...I'm sure plenty out there are fine shooters, but when you set it next to a "quality" AK, you can see major differences in fit and finish and accuracy. The fact the magwell has to be dremeled out to fit hi caps in it makes me not want one.
 
....An AK is an AK is an AK...

Unless it's just too canted to function, a Wasr-10 will run just as well as a milled Arsenal.

If you buy your AKs based on what they look like, I will withhold comment.

I buy my AKs to go "bang".
 
I would take a milled Arsenal AKM or Tromix Saiga over any AR any day. I would take a DSA FAL over any AR any day as well.
 
....An AK is an AK is an AK...

Unless it's just too canted to function, a Wasr-10 will run just as well as a milled Arsenal.
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I disagree strongly.

While a WASR may run as well as an Arsenal, there will be a difference in accuracy. Tests have shown definitively that Saigas and other high-quality AK clones are more accurate than the run-of-the-mill Romanians. Also, having your AKs receiver hogged out by a Century Arms employee with a Dremel is not conducive to a good magazine-to-receiver fit, which can cause feeding problems.
 
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