Why do good AKs cost as much as ARs?

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I own a variety of AK's, and I can definately tell a difference in the lower end models and the higher end models. The action is much smoother on the "higher" models, fit and finish much better, less play in the action, etc. Anyone that says a WASR can perform as good or better than a "Mercedes Benz" of AK47's is fooling themselves.
 
 
I own a variety of AK's, and I can definately tell a difference in the lower end models and the higher end models. The action is much smoother on the "higher" models, fit and finish much better, less play in the action, etc. Anyone that says a WASR can perform as good or better than a "Mercedes Benz" of AK47's is fooling themselves.
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I have to agree with this.

I don't have any experience with Arsenal or Tromix conversions. But I've had:

Century SAR-1
Vector Polish Underfolder
Saiga .308 Conversion

My basic rule with a rifle is that I won't own one that I would not comfortably take a shot at a deer with (with the exception of .22 rimfires) because of my uses of the rifle. Being an animal lover, I will not shoot at one if I cannot expect the rifle to deliver a quick and humane (well placed) shot.

From my general shooting, I would have never felt comfortable taking my Century SAR-1 deer hunting. It didn't have canted sights, and it was very reliable. But it was all over the place when shooting.

My Vector showed significantly better accuracy, and I've taken it as a hunting rifle when hunting my "brush" stands. It's taken deer.

My Saiga .308 proved to be a good deer rifle and took deer this year at over 100 yards from our food plot stands. Its accuracy with quality ammunition gave me confidence that it would do as I intended it to do.


I dunno... Something IS different in the fit of some rifles.


Just my 2 cents based upon my limited experience.


-- John
 
Same reason why if you want your Honda to go fast you'll need to spend more money to keep up with real sports cars!
 
if you are finding ak's at the same price point as the ar's tha you are either looking at custom jobs or you are not looking i the right places. there are plenty of good ak's for way under that price point. ie the yugo's, the mak-90's and others.
 
Because part for part and shot for shot it will outlast any AR???

The price of most every gun platform is going up, but if you buy an AK, it will outlast you and your children who inherit it if you clean in with a hose and some wd-40 every thousand rounds or so.

I also wouldn't balk at a WASR. Ask many who own them. I have 2, that have a combined total of 24000 rounds through them of the worst steele junk ammo you can purchase. I think I have 5 replacement parts for a total of less than 30 bucks in maintenance on both (including a wooden handgard I melted the laquer off of and a few springs). I can count less than 1 round in 1000 of FTFs, FTEs or failure to light, that I couldn't point to a definate ammo failure. Try that with your AR. I also have a high end Valmet that I paid almost 800 for. The high end AK's i have shot are slightly more accurate than my WASRs, and just as reliable. They are not bull barrel AR target rifles, and they will out last all of those also for a greatly different purpose.

I love my Bushmaster, my DPMS for what they are, my great optics, and an AK is a totally different arm with sloppy grouping and a more power round and I can clean them with a hose or some flood water.



If a hurricane like Katrina hits tomorrow and you have one gun and one mag to take away from your house in a hurry, i'd grab a WASR and leave my ARs and cleaning kits behind. My combined total on two equal WASRs and 1000 rounds of ammo was right around your 600.00 range. They are crude and ugly and run well. Prices on import arms are all going up and supply will run dry. A Mosin M44 that was 85.00 a couple years ago is nearly 200. A K-31 Swiss was 120 and now 250-300. An M1 Carbine was 3-500 hundred, now double that, a mauser was under 200 and now what. Wait until the dems get into office and see what happens to your AK. Price won't be an issue at that point.

Ok...nuf ranting. Just picked up my last AR lower I could affort until Hillary takes over.
 
Have you tried Century or CDNN or Centerfire?

Centerfire has some comblocks in good shape for not too high price:

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1623

some yugos and bulgarian for around 500ish:

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=87



http://www.centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI1382-X

tantal makes some good stuff. not exactly lowest price, but you can email him and find out what he has not on his website. pm me if you can't find his direct mail.

http://www.avtomats-in-action.com/index.html


good luck in your search
 
I don't wanna come off sounding like an AK hater, because I'm not at all, but I have to disagree. A high end AK can't do anything better than a high end AR. I can't think of one thing. The AR has the edge in accuracy, ergonomics, optics mounting, versatility (upper switching), and accuracy (worth mentioning twice).
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WHAT?!!!>
 
I don't wanna come off sounding like an AK hater, because I'm not at all, but I have to disagree. A high end AK can't do anything better than a high end AR. I can't think of one thing. The AR has the edge in accuracy, ergonomics, optics mounting, versatility (upper switching), and accuracy (worth mentioning twice).
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I've embarrassed more than one AR bigot with a 20" barrel wonder-rifle at 200 yards. It's amazing how many hits my 16" Yugo UF gets at that range shooting the woefully unimpressive 7.62x39 over unimproved iron sights.
 
They dont....your not looking well enough. Your also comparing the "build your own" price of the $600 AR to the "complete product with warranty" price of the AK. You can build your own AK for as little as $250....$600 AR vs $250 AK would be a fairer comparison. Comparing mainstream prebuilt AR prices to an AK....that would be fair as well, that would be....$800 AR vs $500 AK.

But you dont want to build, you want to buy....so on with the AKs.

These two, which are $520 Vector built AKs (links where above) would make great AKs. Vector has a good reputation and backs their rifles with a 5 year warranty. I have a Vector gun and its been great.

wood furniture
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=462

poly furniture
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=446

If your wanting to go cheap, but dont want a WASR....consider this at Classic Arms. I have 3 of these coming in soon (ordered Monday), if you want to wait a few days I can report on how they look. Im not saying there is ANYTHING wrong with a WASR. Ive had a few, they all functioned great. They lack the nicer finish, dimpled receiver and better wood furniture that some of the other AKs have....but for budget AKs they are fine. I think the guns above, if they are decent when they show up, are the perfect price point. Just a few bucks more than a WASR.



Quoted from Classic Arms website
crletter-135.jpg

WE TOOK A FEW OF OUR MOST SELECT ROMAINIAN AK RIFLE KITS AND HAD THEM CUSTOM ASSEMBLED FOR US BY HEAVY METAL GUNS INTO THE MOST ORIGINAL ROMAINIAN AK RIFLE VARIATION AVAILABLE TODAY. THESE G CODE RIFLES ARE ASSEMBLED ON ORIGINAL HI-CAP U.S. MADE SEMI-AUTO NODAK RECEIVERS. THESE RECEIVERS ARE ORIGINAL FACTORY HI-CAPS MUCH LIKE THE SAR-1 VARIATIONS WHICH ARE NO LONGER IMPORTABLE. FEATURES A U.S. MADE TRIGGER SET AND COMES COMPLETE WITH 2 U.S. MADE 30 ROUND MAGS. THE U.S. MAGS COMPLETE THE PARTS COUNT TO KEEP THIS RIFLE 922R COMPLIANT. THESE ARE PREMIUM OUALITY RIFLES. WE WERE HAVING SOME OF THESE DONE FROM TIME TO TIME BY REQUEST FOR SOME LOCAL FOLKS AND THEY WERE SO POPULAR WE DECIDED TO DO A SMALL RUN TO OFFER ON THE SITE. TO ME THESE ARE THE NICEST AND CLOSEST TO A TRUE ORIGINAL ROMAINIAN AK-47 RIFLE AVAILABLE. EACH RIFLE IS EXPERTLY ASSEMBLED AND QUALITY CHECKED BT HEAVY METAL GUNS. THEY TEST FIRE EACH RIFLE AND DO AN OVERALL QUALITY CHECK TO INSURE PROPER MAG FIT, PERFET SIGHT RADIUS, ETC. SO FAR WE HAVE EXPERIENCED 100% SATISFACTION WITH THESE RIFLES.
EACH COMES COMPLETE WITH 2 30 RD PRO MAGS,
ASK FOR PRODUCT CODE. #ROM-AK HMG..... $349.95
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or this one if you want poly furniture

crletter%20191.jpg

SAME GREAT RIFLE AS THE ONE ABOVE BUT OUTFITTED WITH A NEW U.S MADE BUTTSTOCK, PISTOL GRIP AND HANDGUARD. WITH NO REAL COLOR CONTRAST I CAN'T GET THE PHOTO OF THESE RIFLES TO TURN OUT GOOD BUT BELIEVE ME THEY LOOK GREAT. THEY ARE RUGGED AND TOUGH TOO. AND THE BEST PART IS SINCE THE FURNITURE IS U.S. MADE THIS RIFLE NOW EXCEEDS THE U.S. PARTS COUNT CRITERIA AND THIS VARIATION CAN LEGALLY ACCEPT ANY IMPORTED AK MAG OR DRUM... COMES COMPLETE WITH 2 STEEL 30 RD MAGS ..............ROM-AK HMG BPF............$389.95
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A 600 dollar AR will not out perform a 600 dollar AK. Most of the 600 dollar AR's I've seen have been jammomatic parts kit guns which I wouldn't trust my life to.
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I would disagree with this. I have some $570 ARs that Ive shot thousands of rounds out of, with 2 or 3 failures.....and I use exclusively Wolf ammo. While Im sure there are some poorly built cheap ARs out there, I wouldnt agree with them being in the majority.



....An AK is an AK is an AK...

Unless it's just too canted to function, a Wasr-10 will run just as well as a milled Arsenal.

If you buy your AKs based on what they look like, I will withhold comment.

I buy my AKs to go "bang".
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While a WASR may function just as well as a Arsenal, the accuracy, fit, finish, warranty, customer service and overall value of the weapon....well it just aint the same, no way, no how. Perhaps if you just buy AKs to go "bang" this will be lost on you, if you like a quality product then the difference will be seen in spades. Century Arms and the factory in Romania have NOTHING on Arsenal.
 
GunWeildingManiac says: My Yugo M95 can hang with any M4 in terms of accuracy, given equal ammo. I know the .308 Vepr's are also DARN accurate given a shooter who knows what he is doing and good ammo.
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Yes, I agree whole heartedly. Mine will too. But the M95 is not something you find every day. It is a rare, nearly one of a kind, rifle. I'd choose mine over an AR any day of the week. No jams, no issues, accurate as heck. The only thing the AR has going for it is the sights, with standard aperture sights at least.
 
I see this is turning into a "Grey Poupon" vs "Frenchs".

My point is that if one buys an AK with expectations of functionality within its designed parameters...

... they all meet that.

If you buy an AK with the expectation of precision shooting, you're reading the wrong stuff.


Will my Wasrs put holes in milk jugs at 100 yards? Yep.

Why spend the money on a "name" when the 'entry level' model performs the same?

I've owned several Arsenals and sold them all off because folks will pay 'extra' for the name on the side. I'm quite satisfied with my Romanian 'junk rifle' performance.

As far as "hogged out mag wells", well, you just need to look at your percentages. The WASR is easily the most imported Kalashnikov variant. Being that way, the odds of you seeing some that were "hogged out" or with "canted sights" are far more likely than you seeing an Arsenal or a Saiga that just happened to miss the QC checkpoint (because Arsenals and Saigas aren't imported in near the numbers the WASRs are).

I'm sure we'd all like to be able to afford 'name brand' stuff. Some of us can't, and with the Kalashnikov platform, we are blessed that all have the same basic level of function.
 
Why spend the money on a "name" when the 'entry level' model performs the same?
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I think that is the whole point. It isn't just a name. The only difference between my Arsenal SLR-95 and a WASR certainly isn't that they have different names. There are functional differences between them. Trigger pull, magazine fit, and barrel hardiness are a few of the differences.
 
How do you check for hardiness?
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I retract my statement about the barrels, my mistake. I thought WASR barrels were not chrome-lined, but the are chromed-lined.
 
GTSteve03


Why do good AKs cost as much as ARs?


I've been pricing AKs online due to wanting to acquire one before someone gets the bright idea to ban them again.
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PM sent!
 
Chrome lining is specified by the militaries for a number of reasons that do not affect civilian shooters.

Unless you plan on going Class III with your AK and firing thousands of rounds through it full auto, there is really no need for the chrome.

"Chrome lined barrels don't rust after you shoot corrosive ammo through them." They do. dstorm1911 has some pix from a police/game warden impounded wasr with the bore rusted up something fierce. The chrome lining just gives you a little more time to clean, but doesn't obviate the need for cleaning.

Having a chrome lined AK barrel is a preference of the user.

Y'all do clean your guns regularly, right?
 
Yes, I agree whole heartedly. Mine will too. But the M95 is not something you find every day. It is a rare, nearly one of a kind, rifle. I'd choose mine over an AR any day of the week. No jams, no issues, accurate as heck. The only thing the AR has going for it is the sights, with standard aperture sights at least.
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Main problem with the AK, in my opinion and experience, is the sights are an obsolete format, with short sight radius and not well set up for the physiology of the human eye. At real combat kind of ranges, this is a bigger impediment to accurate and speedy use of an AK than the cartridge it fires or it's loose, dirt resistant construction.

Put some kind of improved optic on an AK and the performance gap narrows between it and the AR. Shooting both from a rest or something, and the AR will outperform the AK, but shooting either of them from the prone unsupported, standing, etc, and both are effectively accurate weapons.
 
I don't wanna come off sounding like an AK hater, because I'm not at all, but I have to disagree. A high end AK can't do anything better than a high end AR. I can't think of one thing. The AR has the edge in accuracy, ergonomics, optics mounting, versatility (upper switching), and accuracy (worth mentioning twice).
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Throw a high end AR, or any AR for that matter, in some mud and see it it still fires.
 
where are you looking

I can't find anything other than a POS WASR for under $600.
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I don't know where you are looking, but I just picked up a sweet Yugo underfolder for $525 new. They had WASR's for $300-350 new. I bought the AK and 1000 rounds of ammo, plus paid the sales tax for less than the price of the crappiest AR. I think AK's are getting more expensive due to all of the hype in the media surrounding them as well as fear of another federal ban. Get em while you can.

Main problem with the AK, in my opinion and experience, is the sights are an obsolete format
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I have to agree with you here. A top rail system would be nice. However, the AK was not designed for such delicacies. It is a survival gun, and if you think that your little red dot scopes and holosights will still function after 6 months in the bush with no supply drops... well, you have another thing coming. AK sights are "good enough" to hit a human at 200 yards. They are also weather proof, and require zero maintenance. What more do you need?

I have some $570 ARs that Ive shot thousands of rounds out of, with 2 or 3 failures
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PS. I have not had a single failure of any kind out of my M70 AK using cheap Russian ammo.

Don't get me wrong, AR's are awesome guns if you are and organized military with cleaning posts and regular supply drops. However, for regular folks like me, I'd rather have something thats more resilient.
 
Main problem with the AK, in my opinion and experience, is the sights are an obsolete format, with short sight radius and not well set up for the physiology of the human eye. At real combat kind of ranges, this is a bigger impediment to accurate and speedy use of an AK than the cartridge it fires or it's loose, dirt resistant construction.

Put some kind of improved optic on an AK and the performance gap narrows between it and the AR. Shooting both from a rest or something, and the AR will outperform the AK, but shooting either of them from the prone unsupported, standing, etc, and both are effectively accurate weapons.
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This has been my experience. I was a crappy shot with my SAR-1 until I put a Kobra (Russian milspec optic) on it, and it made a huge difference. It cut my group sizes in half or better, and the rifle is overall far more shootable.

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pos WASR? I have a GP WASR10/63 SAR-1 and a SAM7 from ARSENAL and i still cant tell much difference in the way they shoot the only real difference is the sam7 has a better finish and the reciever is forged. buy the WASR and put the savings into ammo and magazines .
 
My WASR is plenty accurate. I dont see the need to invest an insane amount of money in an upper level AK. Save it for mags and ammo.
 
WASRs go for about 400 after transfer/taxes and Yugos for 475 after transfer/taxes on aimsurplus
 
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