Why do "Home Defense" guns feel so junky?

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bdjansen

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I know "junky" is subjective, but I feel like the nice pumps are for hunters. I would like a Mossberg 500, but I just can't get past fit and finish. Same for the 870 Express.

I picked up a Browning BPS, and THAT gun I liked. But a 28 inch barrel. I can't find an 18" for that gun. Wingmasters are nice, but again, made for hunting.
 
60309.jpg


http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...+12+Ga.+BPS+High+Capacity+3"+Chamber+wCylinde

Other versions in other finishes and gauges are available - see the Browning catalog... happy shopping!
 
They Mossberg 590 and ESPECIALLY the 590-A1 are a bit more solid feeling than the 500 series.

I would highly recommend you check them out.

with 2.75 shells , they are stock at 8+1 rounds... and 7+1 with 3inchers.

I own a 590 that is basically a 590A1 clone, sans the metal parts.

the A1 version has a metal safety button, and metal trigger group, and a "heavy barrel".
 
I personally think the 870 Wingmaster makes a good HD shotgun, I have one hanging on the side of my bed, just add an 18-20 inch barrel, a magazine extension and maybe a couple of more toys and there you have it. My HD 870 Wingmaster is an older 20GA full size frame gun, but there is no reason I could not do the same thing with my 12 GA 870 Wingmaster or one of my 1100's.

Ike
 
bdjansen said:
I know "junky" is subjective, but I feel like the nice pumps are for hunters. I would like a Mossberg 500, but I just can't get past fit and finish. Same for the 870 Express.

I picked up a Browning BPS, and THAT gun I liked. But a 28 inch barrel. I can't find an 18" for that gun. Wingmasters are nice, but again, made for hunting.
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buy the model you want and get a 20" smoothbore deer barrel for it.
 
Isaac-1 said:
I personally think the 870 Wingmaster makes a good HD shotgun, I have one hanging on the side of my bed, just add an 18-20 inch barrel, a magazine extension and maybe a couple of more toys and there you have it. My HD 870 Wingmaster is an older 20GA full size frame gun, but there is no reason I could not do the same thing with my 12 GA 870 Wingmaster or one of my 1100's.

Ike
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Yeah, but why don't they sell a Wingmaster with a 18 inch barrel stock? Is home defense not classy enough for a nicely finished wood stock?

I like Wingmasters too and might just do like you and get used one and an 18 inch additional barrel. Then I could shoot clays with the other barrel.

I shoot left handed so I'd prefer a tang safety and a Browning, but like I said, I can't find any short barrels for the BPS. Plus barrels are a lot more expensive for Browning then the 870.
 
You can pay to have your barrel cut down. The HD shotguns are more like a hammer than a chisel. It takes a fine craftsman to carve with a chisel but any dope can use a hammer. Hammers also last longer and tend to break less than chisels.
 
If it goes bang when ya want it to what difference does it make how it looks?
 
Yeah, but why don't they sell a Wingmaster with a 18 inch barrel stock? Is home defense not classy enough for a nicely finished wood stock?
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Remington used to make such Wingmasters, and sold most of them to LE. Over the years they evolved into the 870 Police Models with Parkerized finish, and even more beefed up internals. You can still get them with walnut stocks, though it's a fairly plain grade of walnut. http://www.remingtonle.com/shotguns/870standard.htm

If you want a prettier Mossberg 500 Boyd's has new stocks for you - http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/Replacement-Stocks-for-the-Mossberg-500-835-s/122.htm
Hoosier Gun Works also has a really nice take off stock set from the old 500 Regal - http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/images/set_moss_500_regal.jpg
 
You get what you pay for nowadays. Unlike in the good ole days the craftmanship is there. Today its mainly plastic and polymer parts inside and outside.
 
Remington used to make such Wingmasters, and sold most of them to LE. Over the years they evolved into the 870 Police Models with Parkerized finish, and even more beefed up internals.
Click to expand...

These are the "beefed up" internals of the 870 Police vs. the Express:
1. Heavier carrier dog follower spring, an easily replaced $4 part
2. Forged ejector, not the MIM ejector on the Express, an easily replaced $13 part
3. More powerful mag tube spring, an easily replaced $8 part
4. Police uses a pressed aluminum trigger guard, the Express uses a polymer guard: advantage Express, as the polymer guard is more durable.
5. As of several years ago both models use the identical sear spring

That's about it, the rest is all marketing.
 
Either one is fine, mossberg makes the Just In Case,or a 500 pursuader with a 18" barrel which is the legal limit length. Remember why you are buying this shotgun, to get it in a hurry when you need it! A 590 is to big and bulky in close quarters battle,but you could always beat them to death with it! Short and sweet and in a hurry, is the thinking to go with! or a taurus 410 judge with shot shells will stop them at close range! Remington 870's are good as well a police special, 18"barrel,5+1 same as mossberg.
 
These are the "beefed up" internals of the 870 Police vs. the Express:
1. Heavier carrier dog follower spring, an easily replaced $4 part
2. Forged ejector, not the MIM ejector on the Express, an easily replaced $13 part
3. More powerful mag tube spring, an easily replaced $8 part
4. Police uses a pressed aluminum trigger guard, the Express uses a polymer guard: advantage Express, as the polymer guard is more durable.
5. As of several years ago both models use the identical sear spring

That's about it, the rest is all marketing.
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You left out the "Vibra-Honed" receiver which I'll give you is Remington's marketing word for using something that's probably equivalent to an orbital sander to smooth out the metal. Still, it's an extra process, and cost more money. It also allows for a smoother & more even finish.

You also left out the parkerized finish on the Police vs. the cheap matte black finish on the Express.

Call it a parkerized Wingmaster with heavier springs if you wish, and I won't disagree. The OP stated that the Express felt cheap to him, and he wished for a Wingmaster with a factory 18" bbl. I tried to briefly explain what that shotgun became. Whether or not the Police model is worth $200 more than the Express is up to the end user. The Police models are still $100 less expensive than the Wingmasters.

OP, one other shotgun you may want to look for is the recently discontinued 18.5" bbl 20 GA 870 Wingmaster Jr. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/..._id/96460/Remington+870+Wingmaster+JR+20+18.5
 
I haven't seen nearly as many quality issues with Remington as I have Mossberg. Maybe you're looking in the wrong places for an 870, or I am looking in the wrong places for the Mossberg.
 
You left out the "Vibra-Honed" receiver which I'll give you is Remington's marketing word for using something that's probably equivalent to an orbital sander to smooth out the metal. Still, it's an extra process, and cost more money. It also allows for a smoother & more even finish.

You also left out the parkerized finish on the Police vs. the cheap matte black finish on the Express.
Click to expand...

Yes, the current 870 Express can be a little "rough" out-of-the-box. But that's something that a little 0000 steel wool and time at the range will fix.

As for parkeriztion, that is simply a finish that absorbs oil. If you keep it oiled, it will not rust. But then again, if you keep any finish oiled it won't rust. However, I have owned guns with both finishes and I would choose the parkerized finish.
 
The OP stated that the Express felt cheap to him, and he wished for a Wingmaster with a factory 18" bbl. I tried to briefly explain what that shotgun became.
Click to expand...

If Remington were to make a "HD" Wingmaster with an 18 1/2" barrel, etc., I would be first in line to buy it (and I'm sure the line would be around the block).
 
Owning two beautiful Wingmasters (1 20 years old and another much older), I bought an 870 Express Home Defense. Garbage. In fact, I sold it before I shot it. Just felt like loose, plastic junk. I bought another Nova, this one in their HD outfit, and haven't looked back on my decision. Again, maybe if I had shot it, the skies would have parted and harps would have played. But it didn't feel like that would be the case.
 
The reason most "home defense" guns feel junky is easy. Look at the posts looking for the best $150 gun. A WHOLE lot of folks are cheap and the manufacturers are catering to the big market. The good stuff is out there, but again it isn't cheap.
As to 870 sear springs:
F17518 870 SEAR SPRING 3.5 TO 5 LB $ 3.20
F91771 870 SEAR SPRING COMPETITION TRAP 3 LB $ 4.70
F97642 870 SEAR SPRING HEAVY 7 TO 8 LBS $ 4.70
F97579 870 SEAR SPRING MARINE MAG $ 3.60
All the police models I have seen have the heavy spring.
 
Ain't America Beautiful

Want to spend your treasure on an expensive SG for HD, there is nothing to keep you from getting your every fantasy. On the other hand if your appetite is for an inexpensive reliable SG that serves the same purpose, you can do that to. Call a mossy 500 or an express "junky" but don't call them junk. They would be junk if they didn't function as intended and they wouldn't be the choice of LE all over the country. Costs is a factor but they are also looking for something that can take a licking and well you know, keep on going bang!!

Have seen the argument that $$'s or quality of the stock makes for a better HD shotgun on various threads. Thats what makes America beautiful, "whatever floats your boat". In the end, it comes down to what you think you need and how much you want to spend. If you can spend the bigger bucks and still throw it behind the seat in your truck or scramble in the mud just for fun; then no one will call you crazy.

I am a proud 870 tactical owner. $200 and a can of krylon and I was good to go.
 
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