Why do "Home Defense" guns feel so junky?

[guyfromohio]

A friend had a brand new Express HD. He had to return it to Remington twice before gander just refunded in full. This all happened during his first range trip... using appropriate ammo. Another reason why I sold mine NIB. Many people have had great experience with them. My feeling was that of a disappointing realization that Remington quality ain't what it used to be. Right now, for the same $$, I'd buy the Mossy.

 

[Girodin]

It seems you've asked the wrong question. HD shotguns are not per se "junky." In fact they run the gambit. If the question is why do guns like a most basic Mossberg 500 or 870 express feel junky the answer is simply that they are built to a price point and that results in rougher guns leaving the factory.

If you want more you either need to 1) get lucky 2) spend more 3) work on the gun yourself .

 

[Loosedhorse]

Junky?

As already said, there's a big range. Now it is true: most HD guns will have dull finishes and plastic furniture, and maybe that makes them look or feel junky. And for a lot of folks, getting a deep-blued, choice walnut HD gun for $1200+ is not a feasible option when a sub-$400 gun will do the job.

 

[guyfromohio]

That's not Remington's $279 Express HD.

 

[leadcounsel]

Love me some 870 or 500 or 590 action - they feel just fine in my hands and it's the software and not so much the hardware that counts anyway.

I do agree that I like wood furniture better, and often swap out the stock furniture with better quality stuff, but it works just fine either way.

 

[jl1288]

I don't think the newer defensive shotguns necesarily feel cheap they are manufactured to meet a price point and to live a life of rough service therefore they don't have nice furniture or a polished finish to the metal. I personally don't find that cheapens them, they are after all tools. My personal taste also doesn't include rails, lights, lasers etc,etc,etc. K.I.S.S.
seems to be tried and true. I own a Mossberg 500 with a polished blue finish and plastic furniture, and a 500 with a parkerized finish, they share space with a Pardner pump which is also parkerized and plastic furniture. The Pardner truely is cheap, but it is a solid shotgun and would serve well for a truck, or tractor gun. You'll need to go back a few years to find defensive shotguns with nice wood and a blued finish although the wood won't wear the nicest finish possible. They too were cheap shotguns in their day, although to me they are still every bit as relevant now for self defense as they where 80 years ago for the model 11, and 47 years for the High Standard. It is all in ones personal taste and and pocket book, how much do you want to spend? I spent less than $300 for those two old shotguns and they are my favorites. Of course they aren't very tactical looking but then again they were'nt meant to look that way. Just tools that happen to be pretty as well as functional.

 

[kb58]

My reasoning went something like this:
1. Shot guns are used for fun (clays), hunting, home defense, and "SHTF" scenarios.
2. The only difference between these shotguns, really, is barrel length.
3. The odds of a home invasion are fairly low - depending where you live.
4. The odds of "SHTF" is, I feel, way, way remote, contrary to what some want to believe.
5. Therefore, buy a shotgun that can be used for fun and hunting, and odds are, the long barrel will be okay for home defense, probably.
6. A "SHTF" shotgun is only a hacksaw away.

 

[bdjansen]

Didn't see the OOS at Bud's - wish they wouldn't list stuff they don't have.

There's always the Upland Special, with a 22" VR barrel, if you want a house gun that doubles as a bird gun. I have one I bought used, it's a neat little shotgun.
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=011B&cid=012&tid=216&bg=x

This one's still in the catalog, if you like shiny- http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=011B&cid=012&tid=262&bg=x

That's a nice looking gun. Would probably be the ideal compromise. I should see if I can find one. I don't hunt, but I would like to shoot some clays. It looks a bit different then the Hunter model I handled at the store. I think you really have to handle a gun in person. Everything looks good in pictures online.

 

[NYShooter]

The reason most "home defense" guns feel junky is easy. Look at the posts looking for the best $150 gun. A WHOLE lot of folks are cheap and the manufacturers are catering to the big market. The good stuff is out there, but again it isn't cheap.
As to 870 sear springs:
F17518 870 SEAR SPRING 3.5 TO 5 LB $ 3.20
F91771 870 SEAR SPRING COMPETITION TRAP 3 LB $ 4.70
F97642 870 SEAR SPRING HEAVY 7 TO 8 LBS $ 4.70
F97579 870 SEAR SPRING MARINE MAG $ 3.60
All the police models I have seen have the heavy spring.

The only reason LE organizations used the heavy spring at one time was for liability issues. Apparently you haven't seen a Police model manufactured in the last several years because, as I said, both the Police and the Express now use the identical 3.5 - 5 lb. sear spring.

 

[bdjansen]

My reasoning went something like this:
1. Shot guns are used for fun (clays), hunting, home defense, and "SHTF" scenarios.
2. The only difference between these shotguns, really, is barrel length.
3. The odds of a home invasion are fairly low - depending where you live.
4. The odds of "SHTF" is, I feel, way, way remote, contrary to what some want to believe.
5. Therefore, buy a shotgun that can be used for fun and hunting, and odds are, the long barrel will be okay for home defense, probably.
6. A "SHTF" shotgun is only a hacksaw away.

This is what I have been thinking a little too. Just get a hunting gun that I like and don't sweat the extra 8 inches. It's not like I grab a gun and start clearing my house every time I hear a bump in the night.

 

[ds/ks]

I bought a highly polished, blued Mossberg 18" for my 35 year old Wingmaster. Only $100, looks pretty snazzy!!!!!!!!

 

[ugaarguy]

bdjansen, It's doesn't have pretty bluing in Defense Model version, but if you like the Browning BPS you should try to get your hands on the very similar John M. Browning designed Ithaca Model 37 shotguns, and at least look at them. The other nice thing is that the Ithaca shotguns are made by a small company in the US, rather than the Japanese (Miroku) built Browning BPS if that matters to you. http://www.ithacagun.com/firearms.html

 

[Rshooter]

They did make "police" WingMasters and these come available time to time on the used market. Look hard and you might find an 18 or 20 inch in fine shape. You used to be able to get these for $150 - $250 but prices have gone up over the last few years.

 

[Isaac-1]

The solution to this is not that hard, buy an older fixed choke 870 Wingmaster standard 2 3/4 inch receiver 12 GA for $250-300 ( I just bought a near mint condition one from the 1970's for $225 a couple of weeks ago, in this area hunters want magnum receivers for duck hunting), add an 18-20 inch smooth bore slug barrel for another $150 or so, plus another $50 or so for a magazine extension and you have it all for under $500.

Ike

 

[Dr.Rob]

Problem solved by buying an 870 Wingmaster and a 21 inch deer barrel with rifle sights and Rem-choke.

Spare Remington barrels can be had for less than $100 if you shop carefully. Often there are sales on the 'deer' barrels.

 

[bdjansen]

bdjansen, It's doesn't have pretty bluing in Defense Model version, but if you like the Browning BPS you should try to get your hands on the very similar John M. Browning designed Ithaca Model 37 shotguns, and at least look at them. The other nice thing is that the Ithaca shotguns are made by a small company in the US, rather than the Japanese (Miroku) built Browning BPS if that matters to you. http://www.ithacagun.com/firearms.html

I've never seen one of those before. I don't think any of my local shops stock them. I'd definitely check one out. Maybe I can find one at the local gun show. Good suggestion.

 

[bdjansen]

The solution to this is not that hard, buy an older fixed choke 870 Wingmaster standard 2 3/4 inch receiver 12 GA for $250-300 ( I just bought a near mint condition one from the 1970's for $225 a couple of weeks ago, in this area hunters want magnum receivers for duck hunting), add an 18-20 inch smooth bore slug barrel for another $150 or so, plus another $50 or so for a magazine extension and you have it all for under $500.

Ike

Yeah, I might do that. I saw quite a few Wingmasters at the last gunshow I went to. I think I would prefer a tang safety because I shoot lefty but it wouldn't really be that big of a deal.

 

[melt]

Have you ever considered a JC Higgins model 20? I came across one at a gun show, had the powerpac removed, and for the money, this 12 gauge rocks.

Take a look at this link. http://www.trapandfield.com/i have this old gun.htm

I think you'd be surprised how solid the gun is for the money.

 

[MCgunner]

My question, WHY does a home defense shotgun have to be a home defense shotgun? I hunt dove with a 20 gauge coach gun and I keep it for home defense, just change out the loads to 3 buck. One can buy a shorter barrel for most pumps and depend on their hunting shotgun with which they are so familiar.

JMHO, I guess. I'm a fudd, not a ninja.

 

[Isaac-1]

They did / do? make left handed 870's they are fairly rare though. Any shotgun can be used as an HD shotgun, some do dual roles better than others, barrel length is a prime consideration, while a gun with a 26 inch barrel may work ok for both uses, depending on the house, ones with a 34 inch barrel is likely going to be a bit cumbersome in most homes.

Ike

 

[sjcslk]

HD guns

When I was a kid in '68 I bought a 20" smooth slug bore barrel with rifle sights for deer hunting for my 12 guage Wingmaster. It's since become my HD gun. A bead might be better as my eye sight isn't what it used to be, but I think it will serve as home protection and I don't consider it junky.

 

[bozzman3]

Benelli M2 tactical

 

[Mauser lover]

I suggest that you try to find a used Winchester 1300 defender. It has an 18.5 inch barrel, and is the most simple of all the pump action shotguns that I have ever disassembled. It is WAY more simple than the Mossberg. I don't think that it is junky, per se, but I could see that somebody else thinks that it is. It is too bad that Winchester cut the 1300 from production; I hope that they bring it back.

The only problem with the 1300 is that it has the safety in the wrong spot. Although I guess if you put a pistol grip on the Mossberg the safety on that is in the wrong place on that one too.

 

[ChileRelleno]

I like my inexpensive & junky, Mossy 500 for HD.

I initially bought the Mossy 500 Field & Deer combo, because I wanted a Jack of All Trades to have fun with, but I also wanted it for a bedside boomstick.

So I then bought a 18.5" HD barrel, to which I just last night added a Vang Comp oversized safety, Tru-Dot night sight, heavy mag spring and a high visibility mag follower.
Smoothed a few of the internals in key areas.
Going to add a Streamlight TLR-1.



If I want to "Wow!" the burglar, I'll break out my S12.

 

[230therapy]

You couldn't pay me to own an 870 Express, let alone use it for my HD choice

Why? What's wrong with them?