Why I HATE the NRA

[Aguila Blanca]

[rant]My NRA membership is up for renewal. In fact, it's a bit past due -- thanks to the NRA's rapacious method of operating. The ink wasn't even dry on the check a year ago before they started sending me "renewal" notices. Frequent renewal notices. Which, of course, I threw out. And throwing them out became such a habit that I lost track of when my term expired, and I didn't send in the renewal when it really was time.

This evening I got a phone call. Cheerful sounding male voice, assuring me up front that he's a member of the NRA (like I really believe a telemarketer is an NRA member), and right now he has a couple of great deals to offer me for re-upping: I can renew for five years for $125, or I can get a life membership for $300. Cool. I'd like to not deal with renewing any more, so I said I'd take the life membership. He then said he had to transfer me to another person to confirm my information.

So he transferred me, and a woman came on. She re-confirmed my name and my address, and then said "And for our records, do you confirm that you are enrolling for a life membership for $750?"

Well ... not, I don't. The other guy told me $300. "Hold on a moment, let me check." She came back about a minute later and said that the "distinguished life member" offer for $300 was only for people 65 or older. Just two days ago someone here posted that he gave one to his son as a high school graduation gift, and I told her that. "Just a moment."

She came back and said it's only for people 65 or older ... or for veterans. (This was a new criterion, not in play heretofor.) I told her I am not 65, but I am a veteran. She then told me the price for veterans is $375.

At that point I hung up on her.

I HATE it when people play bait-n-switch with me. I suppose eventually I'll get around to rejoining but for the moment, I am not a member of the NRA. And the NRA has nobody to blame for that other than themselves and their money-grubbing methods of operation.[/rant]

 

[Rachen]

Oh God.

Here we go again.

Still attacking the NRA right.

Ever heard the story of what happened to the Ming Dynasty? You want us and our constitution to end up like the Ming Dynasty as well?

 

[skywarp_]

I have a similar problem


I got tired of the 4 renewal letters a week and a flooded email inbox.


they wouldn't need so many people to renew if they would pay less in postage.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

:banghead:

Jeff

 

[Rachen]

Please read the below, and realize what will happen to our gun rights if we keep on trashing our own infrastructure and fighting.

First you trashed Ron Paul, now he dropped out of the race. See what you done? If thats not enough, trash the NRA now.

In 1566, the remnants of the already weakened Ming Dynasty engaged the peasant armies of Li Zhizheng in a ferocious war that resulted in millions of dead on both sides. An advisor to the Ming Emperor told him that if the fighting between Han Chinese continues on, the Dynasty would fall, millions of more people would lose their lives, and China would be dominated by the rule of a foreign tribe again. However, the Emperor did not heed the warnings at all. He sent his best strategist, Commander Wu Sangui, to Xian to fight the approaching armies of Li Zhizheng.

Meanwhile, in the dark, cold northern forests of Shanhaiguan, another new force was approaching. A powerful cavalry led by an ambitious Manchu leader named Wang Taiji (Nurhaci) is rapidly approaching the frontier outposts of the Ming. For years, the Manchus lived as an isolated tribe, a group of displaced Mongol settlers of the northern plains who still followed the traditions of their ancestors. However, the Manchus were fearsome warriors, especially on horseback. By 1550, a man named Nurhaci succeeded in uniting almost fifteen Manchu and Mongol tribes, as well as northern Jin nomads.

While the Ming armies and Li Zhizheng fought each other and tore each others' throats apart, Nurhaci's mounted warriors slowly began to descend on the Ming throne in Beijing. By 1570, the Ming court has collapsed. Thousands of soldiers defected, either to Li Zhizheng, or to the Manchus, now less than 300 miles away. The soldiers of Commander Wu Sangui were loyal to him, rather than the Ming court, and when Li Zhizheng's army finally entered Beijing, Wu Sangui retreated from the imperial capital and rode eastward. However, Li Zhizheng decided that Wu Sangui was still a danger to his new regime, and had the former Ming general's father executed by beheading, as well as all of Wu Sangui's followers, including his wife and son. As a result, Wu sent his armies back to the capital. In one great battle just outside the city on March 17, 1570, Wu Sangui decimated Li Zhizheng's largest army. More than 100,000 of Li Zhizheng's soldiers lay dead. Amongst the bodies that littered the blood drenched battlefield, was that of Li Zhizheng himself.

In the meantime, the Manchu leader noticed the battle was raging, and offered a simple message to Commander Wu. "Join us, and you will receive our greatest rewards". It was only a simple piece of parchment, delivered to Commander Wu by a lone mounted Manchu rider. But with that parchment, history changed forever. By 1578, the combined armies of Wu Sangui and the new Manchu leader Wang Taihong destroyed the remains of Li Zhizheng's failed dynasty.

As the Ming sage once stated: "We will live under the rule of a foreign dynasty once again". The prophecy has become fact. Within days of the last defeat of Li Zhizheng's ragged forces, Wang Taihong ascended the steps of the Dragon Throne, being the monarch of the third and last "foreign conquest dynasty" to rule China. First the Jin, then the Yuan, finally, the Qing.

Domestic feuding, and endless fighting between the Imperial Ming, and the peasant revolutionaries of Li Zhizheng created a devastating power implosion, opening the way for Nurhaci, and the hundreds of thousands of heavily armed Manchu cavalrymen.

If we don't stop this nonsense, we will see our gun rights ending up like the Ming Dynasty, and perhaps just as disastrous.

 

[HB]

While I do think the NRA is an excellent resource and important to maintaining 2A, they are extremely annoying and have some issues at times. It's your money, makes sense. If they were any other business, people would be saying "Good Job, they don't need your money if they are going to treat you like that".

HB

 

[Cmdr. Gravez0r]

Rachen: I don't think you read the post. This is an American money thing.

And I'm afraid we are not as familiar with the Ming dynasty. Regrettably Chinese history is something most of us are weak on. We would be happy to hear your correlation, however.

 

[fletcher]

Sounds like they're not very coordinated, or at least lack communication, in their membership department.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Did the Ming dynasty collapse because they sent out innumerable renewal notices right after their subjects renewed their citizenship? Is that your point?

If that ISN'T your point, I fail to see any correlation.

And I have never trashed Ron Paul. You seem to have me confused with someone else.

 

[Solo Flyer]

Fletcherriceless!

 

[Rachen]

And I'm afraid we are not as familiar with the Ming dynasty. Regrettably Chinese history is something most of us are weak on. We would be happy to hear your correlation, however.

A Daoist sage once said, almost two thousand years ago: "When a dynasty falls, no matter how great or powerful it is, it will be because of the court eunuchs or the Emperor's advisors themselves".

The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom also fell because of internal fighting and turmoil. In 1857, the North King turned against the East King Yang Xiuqing, and the armies of the North King killed every single one of Yang Xiuqing's followers and family members. It was a conspiracy started by the Emperor Hong Xiuquan because he was suspicious that Yang Xiuqing would try to claim the throne for himself. Therefore, he used the North King to destroy the East King. As a result, tens of thousands were killed, just by fighting within the Taiping Imperial Court. Another Taiping commander, Shi Dakai, became disgusted at all these goings on, and led his army out of Nanjing and headed north, where he hoped to establish an independant kingdom.

Meanwhile, the Qing forces are rallying. By the end of 1859, the Qing banner armies of Zheng Guofang have surrounded the Nanjing city walls. By 1864, when the Qing finally launched their final attack against the already decimated Taiping over half the city's residents and defenders have died from starvation. By July, 1864, Nanjing fell to Zheng Guofang, and almost 1 million of the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom's remaining defenders were all slaughtered.

Thus, the 11 year Taiping Heavenly Kingdom came to an end, and became yet another chapter in China's long history of dynastic cycles.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

I understand the problem. I understand Rachen's correlation.
This is the biggest problem the NRA has, I think. I've met a LOT of gunnies who cite this as their numero uno reason for leaving the NRA. Well, that and the constant fearmongering literature.

But, I still say the NRA is too important to abandon. They just need a "restructuring" to catch up with the times.

Instead of car lot showroom razzle dazzle, why not bone up on the modern methods of customer retention. Keep it electronic and keep paper to a minimum.

Meh.

 

[jdc1244]

Perhaps it’s because I renewed for two years but I don’t get much of anything from the NRA in the way of junk mail. And I’ve never gotten a phone call from them. The last thing I got was a Life Member mailing that made its way to the trash.

 

[Rachen]

Did the Ming dynasty collapse because they sent out innumerable renewal notices right after their subjects renewed their citizenship? Is that your point?

No but the Ming collapsed because of endless waves of internal fighting between generals. The warfare within the Ming regime cost millions of lives, weakening the dynasty so much that the Manchus were able to penetrate it's formerly impregnable defenses.

If we keep on bashing the people who truly supports our gun rights, we will collapse just like the Ming.

And I have never trashed Ron Paul. You seem to have me confused with someone else.

You may never haved trashed him, neither did I, but a great many of our fellow gun owners did. And now, he has dropped out of the race. He is very likely right now disgusted by the fact that we won't learn anything from history.

 

[lanternlad1]

"You may never haved trashed him, neither did I, but a great many of our fellow gun owners did. And now, he has dropped out of the race. He is very likely right now disgusted by the fact that we won't learn anything from history."

Ron Paul dropped out of the race because it was obvious he wasn't going to get the nomination, his seat in Congress was up for election, and he didn't want to lose it. That's all.

But I understand the NRA thing. The constant fear mongering was tiresome, the constant begging annoying, but the last straw for me was when they tried to scuttle Heller. I was very disillusioned by that. It only proved to me that LaPierre and Helmke are no different when it comes right down to it. They both want your money, and the rest is B.S.

 

[86thecat]

So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing.

No, you can thank the NRA for their deceptive fund raising practices. This is the most common issue people have with the NRA but the board refuses to fix the problem. I have no respect for any organization which does not treat me with respect, no matter what they are supposed to represent. When my renewal comes up the money may go to NSSF instead.

 

[Rachen]

Ron Paul dropped out of the race because it was obvious he wasn't going to get the nomination, his seat in Congress was up for election, and he didn't want to lose it. That's all.

If only we had all came out in force, one heart, one body, one soul, and casted our votes for him during the primaries. If only that could have happened, Ron Paul would be an unstoppable figure right now, and all of the freedom haters and leftist elitists would be cowering in fear.

 

[Hk91-762mm]

Im a NRA lifer -I just returned a mambership application with a note --DUDES Im a life member save money dont send again ..
That said The opps sending out this junk mail are Paid Opperations in the membership drive busness-I dont fault the NRA for there stupidity. If you want to help and not gripe -write the NRA and tell them there Hired People are messing Up .
Ill gladly toss out a barrell of trash mail And not quit -OR biach about the NRA.
I just wish The Brady bunch was sending me Mail hahahaha!

 

[Rachen]

Im a NRA lifer -I just returned a mambership application with a note --DUDES In a life member save money dont send again
That said The opps sending out this junk mail are Paid Opperations in the membership drive busness-I dont fault the NRA for there stupidity. If you want to help and not gripe -write the NRA and tell them there Hired People are messing Up .
Ill gladly toss out a barrell of trash mail And not quit -OR biach about the NRA.
I just wish The Brady bunch was sending me Mail hahahaha!

And in the meantime, I am thinking about sending another 50 dollars donation to the NRA.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I used to worry about these.

You know what? It's no loss, we're better off without you. I'll send them an extra donation.

I just no longer care. You guys and the endless whining about junk mail or minimum wage call center employees who don't have the stinking NRA rules booklet memorized.

Fine, don't join. You probably wouldn't be an asset to the fight anyway with these attitudes. We need people that can think straight and remain calm during storms.

If you freak out over this you'd likely hide under the table if it came time to do battle politically anyway.

And I'm not sure what's High Road about these whining posts anyway, these should all get locked. No useful content.

 

[lanternlad1]

"If only we had all came out in force, one heart, one body, one soul, and cast our votes for him (Ron Paul) during the primaries."

Asian culture may be like that, but American culture is not like that. Our individuality is our greatest strength and our greatest weakness. The problem in today's society is the lack of education or interest in affairs of state (not politics).

 

[Neo-Luddite]

It's love and hate--but I DO hate the 'lets make a deal' aspect.

My bet is, if you gripe enough, you'll get the 'low ball' life member price--but no, you SHOULDN'T have to do that with an org that SHOULD comport itself with some dignity--or at least consistancy.

I also don't care to purchase NRA-branded wines (?!!!), car insurance, cigars, etc.

I mean, OK--pocket knives and baseball caps---the next step SHOULD be maybe a dietary fiber drink with NRA branding--THAT reaches out to me and speaks my language.

 

[MMCSRET]

The NRA has a cease and desist facility. If you talk to them you can be taken off their everyday mailing list and you will only be notified of impending membership lapse. I did it about 5 years ago and it has worked.
Texasrifleman: WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[camacho]

Folks, it's easy to get irritated about mailings and phone calls, but I need to remind you that concealed carry, castle doctrine laws, guns-in-car laws, the defeat of Al Gore, the Thiart Amendment, and numerous other rights and benefits most of us enjoy are due to the NRA fighting the battle. Let's never, ever forget that. I would rather deal with imperfect customer service and enjoy the above rights and freedoms. The NRA is civil rights/sporting organization, not Apple Corp. If you are interested in customer service only, go with the latter, they are really good.

 

[torpid]

...However, the Emperor did not heed the warnings at all. He instead sent 10,000 "it's time to renew your Ming Dynasty membership" letters to his best strategist, Commander Wu Sangui, who was on his way to Xian to fight the approaching armies of Li Zhizheng. For the ever harried Wu Sangui, this was the last straw, and in exasperation he instead resigned his post as commander.

Enraged, the Ming Emperor sent an offer to Wu to rejoin the Ming for a low rate of 50 Da Ming Tong Xing Bao Chao, or a lifetime rate of 300 Da Ming Tong Xing Bao Chao. Unfortunately for the Emperor (and the Ming Dynasty), Wu had been previously been offered a lifetime membership for 150 Da Ming Tong Xing Bao Chao, and an deeply offended Wu Sangui immediately defected in disgust to the armies of the newly-arrived Manchu.