Why is the Lee so CHEAP!

[ljnowell]

Lee is cheap because of bare minimum engineering and low cost materials. Aluminum, plastic, and poor quality steel. I used to work for a steel mill that produced the steel used in Lee dies and equipment.

Lee also caters to the beginner and low volume market. You won't find many small commercial loaders running Lee equipment. Why? Because it won't hold up. Many competitive shooters load tens of thousands of rounds each month and they sure don't do it on a Lee.

For the casual handloader they are great. For anything serious I'd look elsewhere. Their collet dies are very good and overall their price point for their dies are great.

Freak, I agree on a lot of that with you. They do not use the quality of raw materials other manufacturers do, however, Lee products usually are good enough. The question therein lies: How strong does it need to be, or can you afford to pay?

I load quite a bit of ammo, last year I probably loaded at least 5K rounds on one of the lee 26 dollar bench mount single stage presses. I have used it two years now and probably loaded just over 10K on it. Most people would lead you to believe that little press wouldnt take it. In fact, there is no appreciable difference between when it was new and now. I recently got a new Auto turret from lee, and am looking to at least double my ammo output. I trust the equipement, but wouldnt run a business with it

I am a mechanic by trade. I think craftsman tools are good, but my toolbox is full of snap-on. Same situation.
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[flashhole]

I can't find the article I was looking for that was written by a competition bullet manufacturer who had capitalized his set up with Lee Classic Cast single stage presses. He was looking for durability and accuracy in a press and had evaluated the Lee CC on several key performance features as well as several other manufacturers presses. His comments about alignment accuracy of the ram to the die holder were very telling about the quality of the Lee product. He evaluated all six presses he purchased for that specific bullet line and had nothing but rave reviews openly stating that he found zero measurable misalignment of the Lee presses. The last time I checked zero was a pretty small number. This coming from a guy who puts his reputation on the line with every batch of bullets he ships. Anyway, the testimony in the article by someone who counts on the accuracy and quality of the Lee press to make a living sold me on the Lee CC. I bought one of each, single stage and turret, and I would highly recommend them to anyone looking for a quality press that is very affordable.

 

[NCdrummer]

I use a Lee Classic single stage press, collet dies, and factory crimp die in several calibers. Every rifle I load for will shoot my handloads inside 1 MOA, some well inside, so the equipment must be pretty good. What a great value! Avoid the Challenger press unless you are loading small handgun ammo. The press will flex and cause problems. But the Classic single stage is the bomb! And the collet dies, including factory crimp, are awesome.

 

[fireside44]

No one ever heard of the 1,000 yard world record set by RickTaylor using a slightly modified twenty dollar Lee loader?

Avoid the Challenger press unless you are loading small handgun ammo. The press will flex and cause problems.

Could've fooled me. Last time I saw any O press flex was when I tried swaging water dropped bullets in it. Bad idea.

 

[EddieNFL]

All presses flex. Some more than others.

 

[freakshow10mm]

And if that press flexes the same spot every time each time, that's accuracy.

 

[EddieNFL]

That's the goal. IMO, flex has less effect on accuracy than consistent operation.

 

[angus6]

The press broke. Not once but four times.
The time I sent it back I was supposed to get it shipped on return the next day after Dillon receiving it. It took 3 weeks for its return.
When it was returned it was still not running the .223 properly.

Here's what 1 commercial loader had to say about a Dillon press
Anyone run 223 on the 1050 ?

 

[RustyFN]

Here's what 1 commercial loader had to say about a Dillon press
Anyone run 223 on the 1050 ?

No and pretty sure I never will.

 

[Bush Pilot]

Everyone should buy a 1050 and Load Master and do their own side by side comparison test. I'm still trying to figure out where the toilet chain goes on the 1050 and how to get primer pocket swager to work on the Load Master

 

[jmortimer]

Love to see all the Lee Precision haters. Richard Lee has done more than any other person ever to promote reloading and make it an affordable hobby for the regular Joe. Again, regardless of how much you spend, the best single stage press is the Classic Cast and one of the best, if not the best turret presses is the Classic Turret. The analogy I like is the guy who goes out and spends $200 k on some uber euro sport cars and gets smoked by the guy in the Corvette ZR1 for less than half the cost. The euro dummy is just like the ones here who bash Lee becuse they wasted a whole lot of $$$$ and have to pretend that they are not fools.

 

[freakshow10mm]

Angus, the press was not at fault. It was operator and brass related. I stopped using the FC brass I was running and now the MKE brass runs perfect. Federal made a bad run of brass from 2003-2008 and that's what I was using. I changed brass and problem went away.

 

[freakshow10mm]

Tell you what, jmortimer. Show me a Lee press that will run 1,000 rounds per hour, swage primer pockets, withstand 50,000 rounds a week loading. Oh, they don't offer anything remotely comparable. Thought so. If Lee is so awesome, why don't they offer a progressive press similar to the Dillon 1050 but only $300?

 

[swampboy]

Tell you what, jmortimer. Show me a Lee press that will run 1,000 rounds per hour, swage primer pockets, withstand 50,000 rounds a week loading. Oh, they don't offer anything remotely comparable. Thought so. If Lee is so awesome, why don't they offer a progressive press similar to the Dillon 1050 but only $300?

freakshow, your argument is apples to oranges. It's like a guy who lives out in Kansas farming 5000 acres telling me how I need a 115 hp tractor to work my 20 X 40 foot garden. My tiller is FINE for my garden.

Almost nobody has anywhere near the requirements that you do for reloading equipment. Furthermore, the vast majority of hand loaders don't shoot competitive matches or have a need to load 1000 or more rounds a month.

If someone DOES require the volume/ruggedness requirements of blue equipment, then they should by all means buy it. The fact remains though, that for the vast majority of us, purchasing Dillon is just a waste of money.

 

[lgbloader]

Inexpensive tools, expensive tools... Every tool has it's strong points and weak points, Every tool.

Can we agree that Lee stuff works? yes.
Does it work for every situation? Probably not.

Does Dillon, Hornady, RCBS progressive presses work? yes.
Ideally for each situation?? some better than others for this and others for that.

If you are shooting 200 - 400 rounds per week consistantly, go with the Lee Classic turret. That's my opion.

Then afterwards, you can judge for yourselves when you need to upgrade based on your own personal experience. Everyone can fill in that blank themselves.

If you & your wife, son(s), Daughter(s) or girlfriend(s), or domestic partner(s) are shooting just as much with you... you may want to get a closer look at the progressive menu.

Just remember that your the one that has to be happy with it. And it really shouldn't take alot to make you happy. Lest, you become a Handloader Diva.

LGB

 

[angus6]

I actually use both Red & Blue, week before last I added .45acp dies to the LCT,
today I ordered 38 super for the SDB

swampboy hits it pretty good , my six banger Lee molds cast just as good if not bettter bullets sometimes as my Magma Bullet Master .

 

[jmortimer]

Freakshow I can't - Lee operates on value - "The Biggest Bang For The Buck." You are a professional ammunition manufacturer. Now most of us are plain old shooters who like to reload. With the Lee Classic Cast you can load ammunition that is as precise as any reloader for any price. So a benchrest shooter or 1,000 yard competitor would be better off with a Lee Classic Cast as opposed to your 1050. Depends on what you want. And I have seen commercial equipment that will out-do your 1050. So what. You have a fantastic press and should be proud of it and I hope your business is doing well.

 

[dls56]

I gave $10 for a lightly used Lee O frame. Completely new to loading and after a little trial and error, patience, and calipers was able to make .223 Rem ammo to within 15 thousands using a press that was veiwed with obvious distain at the reloading shop where I bought it. I've managed to throw together a variety of equipment using different brands for one application or the other heeding reviews found online and took my first shots today.
I'm hooked, the 100 yard groups from my .223 were comparible with 50 yard groups from my Kimber .22 using match grade ammo. And this is the first recipe and caliber I've tried to date. I've always heard that reloading is the way to go for accuracy and I've saved my brass for years. I didn't think I had room for reloading but was drawn like a moth to the flame, LOL. Lee is working for this beginner and likely the low cost had something to do with my finally taking the plunge.

 

[jmortimer]

Most people are surprised at how small the groups are with reloaded ammunition. Once you get the right combo of powder and bullet your gun will surprise you. All brands work. What I never see is Lee users banging on other brands only positive people really. Then comes the Lee Presicion Cry Baby Haters (LPCBH).

 

[freakshow10mm]

My equipment compared to other commercial manufacturers is nothing. In that comparison, my Dillons are the "Lee" of the commercial manufacturers. If you're poor like me you start with Dillon and work towards Camdex. If you've got the financing, you go Camdex from the start but taking out a loan to start a business means your business is in the red for several years. I can't live with that. Cash and cash only.

 

[SSN Vet]

Lots of reasons stated that make sense... but here's my speculation on what really makes Lee able to sell for the low prices they do....

My basis for this specualtion is the family owned company I work for....

I think Richard Lee grew his company slow over a long period of time and that in doing so he avoided what is the kiss of death to most businesses..... debt!

As stated, he's licensed his patents to others for years and I suspect he's put a lot of that money into building up his manufacturing capabilities without going to the bank.

Frugality can take a business a long ways, and if you read his load manual you'll glean three things...
1. He's pretty much a regular guy... (I'll bet he drinks beer by the grill and not mint julips at the country club).
2. He wants to make reloading affordable for other regular guys.
3. He wasn't an english major (sorry, I couldn't resist).

But seriously, many good companies are ship wrecked by owners with expensive tastes and bad habbits.

The greatest challenge to the family owned business is the transition from one generation to the next, and Lee seems to have suceeded in this..... probably because he was a real father and didn't raise a snotty nosed brat with a coke habbit.

That's my speculation.... nothing more or less

 

[swampboy]

My equipment compared to other commercial manufacturers is nothing. In that comparison, my Dillons are the "Lee" of the commercial manufacturers. If you're poor like me you start with Dillon and work towards Camdex. If you've got the financing, you go Camdex from the start but taking out a loan to start a business means your business is in the red for several years. I can't live with that. Cash and cash only.

Now you see where us lowly, Lee-using "hobbyists" are coming from.

If I won the lottery, I'd get me some Camdex stuff. If I were a brain surgeon or double-naught spy, I'd buy Dillon. As it is, I'm a mechanic, so Lee suites me just fine.

 

[fireside44]

Tell you what, jmortimer. Show me a Lee press that will run 1,000 rounds per hour, swage primer pockets, withstand 50,000 rounds a week loading. Oh, they don't offer anything remotely comparable.

No offense, but you aren't acting very high road. All of us are aware that there is greater stuff than Lee Precision. Not all of us reload for a living. As a professional, you must be aware that any equipment subject to high production demands is prone to failure. Nothing is fool proof.

Maybe it ain't the best, but if there wasn't Lee, I wouldn't be able to reload and therefore I wouldn't be able to shoot but a couple times a year, and only in very limited amounts. I dunno about you, but I enjoy being able to shoot more frequently.

Me and the other guys appreciate being able to buy an affordable reloading setup and still retain use of our eyesight and extremities because it works as it should. There ain't no harm in that.

 

[jfh]

About the Lee family: AFAIK, Richard Lee has been inactive for some years, and is living out his life quietly.

Richard, his son, took over the business day-to-day some years ago--and, together with his long-time employees, set about to spruce up the product line a little. The end result is 1) The Classic Cast SS; 2) the Classic Turret; 3) A 50 BMG of the Classic SS fits in there some where--and so do the new variants of the smaller presses.

He shifted to a 4-die paradigm, and with typical Lee gusto, promoted a (handgun) crimp die with post-sizing. Other products have followed. Two years ago I corresponded with John a bit, pointing out to him the kind of support various Lee users were providing for the products--that was when the Loadmaster videos were coming up, and other / turret users tended to need help with that "square ratchet" problem.

I'm a Lee user--it's what a friend taught me on, and then what I bought. Do I think it is God's answer? Well, for me it has been. Even its problems have brought some sort of enjoyment with learning to problem-solve. I appreciate the fact that some users will think the less of them for that. But, for the life of me, I don't understand when, in the course of these discussions, another press owner--and typically a Dillon user--jumps in to denigrate the Lee product.

This is the only general topic in the Reloading Forum where somebody feels compelled to step up and chest thump, yodel like Tarzan, or whip out his 12" penis in .44 Magnum. Maybe the antis have something going in their pseudopsych after all.

Jim H.

 

[freakshow10mm]

Fireside, like I stated earlier, before I became a commercial manufacturer I still kicked Lee to the curb and went Dillon. Any of Lee's progressive presses cannot beat the Dillon 550 except in price. Whoopdie do. Cry once, buy once, buy for life.

Also if you'll notice my posts in the reloading threads on various forums, I'm one of the first ones to recommend the Lee Classic Turret kit from Kempf's for a starting setup over a Dillon unless they want to load 1,000 rounds at a sitting or more.