Why is the Lee so CHEAP!

[Hondo 60]

Like others have said - I don't know why Lee is cheaper than others, it just works.
I have the Lee Challenger Breech Lock Single Stage Press Kit.

The only part I didn't like was the powder measure because it leaks. So I bought an RCBS. Cost an arm & both legs, but it's accurate & doesn't leak.

 

[LiveLife]

Let me just say this ...

How would you feel if all you read day after day on a car forum were Ferrari, Porsche, and Lamborghini owners ripping Corvette Z06/ZR1 because they lack the "pedigree and the handcrafted fit/finish" of a REAL sports car.

What if you were that Corvette Z06/ZR1 owner who was proudly and happily driving along your favorite scenic road when a Ferrari pulls alongside and the driver yells out, "Hey, if you want a REAL sports car, you should be driving something like this!"

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How would you feel if all you read day after day on a car forum were Snap-On, Mac Tools, and Matco Tools owners ripping Craftsman tools because they are not professional enough to be used by REAL mechanics.

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I thought this was THR where shooters/reloaders got together to share our love for the sport of shooting/reloading and network to exchange experience, ideas, tips, and our constitutional freedom to bear arms.

There are MANY NEW shooters/reloaders who may not have the amount of money needed to buy the Ferraris/Snap-ons of guns and reloading equipment, but still want to pursue the hobby of shooting/reloading out of enjoyment or necessity (yes, not all patriotic Americans live in safe neighborhoods).

To a young student/worker/husband working for minimum wage who barely saved enough money to buy a Sigma/P95 and Lee press, THR members saying Sigma/P95 and Lee products are junk and should spend more money on REAL gun/press is like that Ferrari driver waving Snap-on tools at the Corvette driver with Craftsman tools.

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Why do I continue loading on Lee Pro 1000 even though I can afford to have several 650/1050/LNL? I teach a lot of new shooters/reloaders who WANT to pursue the hobby/sport of reloading and match shooting. Often, they do not have the money to outfit their reloading bench with premium equipment. I show them they can indeed pursue their dreams by reloading accurate match grade bullets out of Lee Pro 1000. I helped many build reloading benchs out of scrap 2x4s and plywood. For some, I have setup the entire turn-key reloading bench/press setup so they can pursue the dream of reloading/shooting. I am not shy about telling them the shortcomings of Pro 1000 (primer feed) and direct them to use hand primed cases. Just like the guy who taught me to reload on Dillon 550/Pro 1000 with pros/cons of each back in 1995, I pass-forward the pros/cons of Pro 1000/reloading to those that can only afford Lee products, yet want to shoot/reload.

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Those that own "premium" reloading equipment now may have started on Lee product in their earlier days of reloading. Perhaps because they were inexperienced and not skilled yet, may have made mistakes and/or got frustrated with the not so great early results of their work that led to equipment abuse/breakage. This "bad" experience with Lee products may have been anchored as they moved on with premium equipment purchases (how many of us stopped at just our first gun?) that may have been better/more expensive but because they are now more experienced/skilled at reloading "believe" the premium equipment were indeed superior to Lee products. And in the spirit of providing proper guidance to new reloaders, end up telling the world to stay away from junky Lee products and jump right to premium products. <flash back to Ferrari driver waving Snap-on tools>

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Many THR members have pointed out that Lee owners do not often rip Dillon/LNL products, but Dillon/LNL owners rip Lee products day after day, even on dedicated Lee product threads. If you want me to be frank, those that are Lee product users out of necessity maybe being "discriminated and harrassed" by premium equipment users. Many come to THR to seek information that will allow them to safely reload and shoot. They ask many newbie questions because they are not experienced. For many, they buy Lee products/have curiosity about Lee products because that's all they can afford - For now. Ripping Lee products day after day, thread after thread do not help them nor keep in line with the intent/spirit of THR. IMHO.

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I have been a long-time reader of THR and have learned a lot over the years from the various threads. As you may have noticed, I have posted quite a bit since I started posting in January of 2010 (530+ posts good and bad). My intent has been to help others. And like many here, sometimes get carried away. This thread and many other "ripping threads" are causing me to consider whether I want to continue posting here.

 

[jcwit]

Tell you what, jmortimer. Show me a Lee press that will run 1,000 rounds per hour, swage primer pockets, withstand 50,000 rounds a week loading. Oh, they don't offer anything remotely comparable. Thought so. If Lee is so awesome, why don't they offer a progressive press similar to the Dillon 1050 but only $300?

Any one notice this poster Never and I mean never states how many rounds are loaded week in and week out, month in and month out and yearly average production from his licensed firearm and ammo manufacturer business.

 

[twice barrel]

Well, I started with an RCBS Rockchucker in 1978/9 and really didn't give it much of a thought. It was the press Nagles Gunshop had on display and I wanted one. Loaded countless rounds for my 270, 30/30, 243, 22-250 rifles and 357 mag/38 spcl pistol. 5-10 scale & Duoflow powder dispenser, Forester case turner with all the doodads, etc. Truly there were more before it was all said and done but those were the calibers I started with. Not sure when I got my FFL but when I did so many orders arrived with free Lyman goodies that I sold my Rockchucker, 5-10 scale and DuoFlow. Used the Lymans with whatever dies were on sale...often Pacific as well as Lyman. Over time I felt one die set was pretty well as good as another as long as it was set up properly.

But the Lee Auto-disc powder dispenser and AutoPrime hand priming tools were downright revolutionary for me. How they could make such wonderful tools for such a low price point day after day, year after year amazed me. Still does. For small capacity cases using spherical and most flake powders suitable for pistol rounds they would be difficult to top. While they might not stand up to the rigors of a commercial shop the casual loader would do well to try and wear them out. And when they do?...buy another!

As to the OP; I think their tooling is paid for. Their gear is designed for the market they serve, has evolved where appropriate and they are their own employees.

If you like their products keep buying them. If you don't; then don't.

Presently all I have is Lee and I'm content. While I could affort higher end products I just don't have the need for them. If and when I do I'll shop around but today I'm just gonna try to wear out that new Lee Classic Turret press I purchased last fall.



Regards,

TB

 

[EddieNFL]

What if you were that Corvette Z06/ZR1 owner who was proudly and happily driving along your favorite scenic road when a Ferrari pulls alongside and the driver yells out, "Hey, if you want a REAL sports car, you should be driving something like this!"

If I had his budget, I'd be driving the Ferrari. Would it hurt my feelings? My grandfather once told me, "You have to choose to be insulted or embarrassed."

I can empathize with the the low budget shooter. I started out as a no-rank GI on borrowed equipment. Bought my first press (Lyman Spartan SS) for $25. Loaded for years using Lee dippers 'cause I couldn't afford a measure. Worked hard and bettered my situation.

 

[angus6]

Any one notice this poster Never and I mean never states how many rounds are loaded week in and week out, month in and month out and yearly average production from his licensed firearm and ammo manufacturer business.

jc google can be interesting at times

 

[ljnowell]

Any one notice this poster Never and I mean never states how many rounds are loaded week in and week out, month in and month out and yearly average production from his licensed firearm and ammo manufacturer business.

Not many. In fact, from readin a few threads on calguns and here I was under the impression he was going out of business.

 

[Glock20]

Good point angus6. These threads always seem to become "mine is better than yours".

For anyone to compare equipment that was designed for commercial use costing $1600.00 to equipment that was designed for the average reloader costing $150.00 is just ridiculous.

Many of us started on and still use Value Priced Lee equipment. For someone wanting to get their feet wet on a progressive press, Lee is hands down the least expensive. Sure there are shortcomings compared to more expensive equipment, and these can usually be overcome by discussions here on THR. Even the more expensive have shortcomings.
Matter of fact, when I did "upgrade" to a LnL AP, I was on the phone with Hornady to resolve an indexing issue. No press is perfect nor will fit everyone's need or budget.

Why some want to bash another for their selection of equipment instead of helping is beyond me.

I'm glad Lee offers what they do for the price they do. It has helped 1000's of people over the years get into a hobby that they might otherwise never be able to.

 

[freakshow10mm]

Any one notice this poster Never and I mean never states how many rounds are loaded week in and week out, month in and month out and yearly average production from his licensed firearm and ammo manufacturer business.

Gee, didn't know that was a requirement. Lots of your average competition shooters load more than I do, like I stated earlier.

 

[RandyP]

Anybody out there also enjoy fishing? I do.

I started with a cane pole and a bobber more than 5 decades ago and have enjoyed the hobby ever since. You do NOT need a $500 Daiwa or Shimano reel and a $1200 graphite rod to catch a fish. They are dammmmm fine reels and rods, but not in most recreational fisherfolks' budget range.

Based on all the Lee bashing I read on this website from some folks, I wonder if I am allowed to continue to reload if I don't have $1000 invested in my setup? Jeepers, I sure hope so.....lol... and I too as a satisfied Lee user don't recall ever bashing those who have opted to spend much more for their gear than I chose to.

You only gotta keep you happy. Ignore the snobby bashers.

My favorite very short youtube video was done by Mr Lee himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc

 

[EddieNFL]

I started with a cane pole and a bobber

I sure hope you not using those cheap ugly plastic bobbers.

 

[Hondo 60]

Very first time I went fishing, I used a cane pole & " cheap ugly plastic bobber ".

Rainbow Trout pulled the pole apart & my Dad went running down the stream after it (he caught it too). good eatin'!!!

 

[EddieNFL]

Shoulda used cork!

 

[X-Rap]

I think there is an over sensitivity to criticism by some Lee fans. I have seen many owners of other presses lay praise to Lee and his innovations and contributions to the reloading world.
The fact is that Lee uses some materials that some of us would call inferior and I would site the many broken handles I have from the Auto Primers as a case in point. I have some Lee dies, one set that never seemed to crimp the bullets well and the primer that I love and keep replacing the handles on. So I have some kind of love hate relationship with Lee.
I will say that I don't like to reload as much as I like to shoot and that frankly has over the years turned much of my reloading bench blue. I like things simple and easy and don't care to tinker with regards to reloading. I believe the costs over the long term are really negligible so I cry once and enjoy what I perceive as a simpler faster process.
I see a trend of what seems like Lee fans who seem to say there is no difference in product aside from price and what for lack of better words product snobbery.
Rather than that I see it as a simple point of the difference between Leupold and Tasco, S&W and Taurus, Glock and HiPoint, Surefire and MagLight. One makes decisions and choices based on many things the guy who reloads on the cheap might buy better scopes or beer for that matter. It doesn't have to be a big hassle I don't golf so I can shoot more instead.

 

[mcdonl]

Ok... I guess I will take a stab at the "Why is Lee so cheap?" question... but, I am a novice reloader so keep that in mind so I will answer in basic business terms...

First you build a quality matrix... what is important to your average customer? So, in the case of a handloader... it would be things like needing to be standardized, rugged enough for the intended duty, reliable, accurate, easy to use, etc... these are your quality benchmarks.

Then, you look at your competition and compare your quality to theirs. How do you rank?

Then, once you have determined what the customers want for quality, how you compare to your competitors and what the average customer is willing to pay to get this quality you try and hit that price point. That is the fair market value.

If your product can exceed on the quality, and stay below or very near the FMV you will do great. If your product exceeds on quality and goes moderately over the FMV you will have a slightly smaller customer base but you will still do ok.

Dropping below on the quality is bad. Doing so, and going high on the price is very bad.

Lee seems to have been able to be at or above average quality while staying slightly below the price the average consumer is willing to pay. This is the best case for a business. RCBS seems to have been able to go way above on quality, and moderately over the FMV for reloading equipment and this is also a good formula but the customer base will be smaller.

Also, it is good to point out that it is human nature to not only justify your actions, but for some people to bolster your decision by trying to point out the faults in the decisions others make. This is silly when it comes down to what each consumer thinks is important, and what they are willing to pay for it. It does not mean that one product is junk, or another is overpriced because, in reality if this were the case the businesses would fail.

 

[scythefwd]

eddie/NFL I think your grandpa may have over simplified the situation. You don't have to be embarrassed or insulted. Just grin at the idiot who payed 1mil for a car that isn't that much faster and be done with it. I'd rather have an old stingray that I have worked on myself than an enzio. I'd rather have a lotus over either (which isn't that much more expensive than a z06).

If someone has something "better" than you, either it is because you didn't want the "better" item for several reasons, fitment, needs, etc... or you couldn't get it due to several reasons... availability, cost, etc... If you are in group 1, there is no need to be embarrassed or insulted... just amused at the close mindedness and elitism of the idiot flaunting what he has.

 

[rfwobbly]

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder.

Get over it, guys! It's ALL about personal preference for "features". And "cost" is a feature, just as much as reliability, warranty, perceived quality, rounds per hour, ease of operation, availability of options, etc, etc.

The bottom line is that we all 1) own guns, 2) love to shoot, and 3) reload our own. All this divisive bickering beyond those 3 points only scares off new converts. These conversations DO NOT help our hobby or shooting sports.

 

[EddieNFL]

I think Granddad nailed it in the X-ring. Took me 20 or 30 years to figure out many of the things he told me, but I finally learned I could turn things around on the would be offender or upset my day by deciding to be insulted.

With unlimited funds I'm the guy with the Testarossa. I would have a warehouse full of cars Jay Leno would envy. Does that make me an idiot in the eyes of some? Who cares?

 

[aerod1]

My Lee Classic Turret and little "C" presses have served me well. I could afford more expensive equipment but I can't see the advantage.....to me.
If a person wants to spend more that's great. It's his money.
The rounds I load are very high quality and I'm happy with them. I can't see me buying any other press, other than a Lee.
I don't make my candle appear brighter by blowing another's candle out!

 

[warnerwh]

Lee sells numerous presses. I suspect far more than any other manufacturer which means he can make them for less money. Also the Classic Turret is an amazing bargain in my eyes. Before I got married I had a Dillon XL650 with the shell feeder. The quality of the ammo was no better than the Classic Turret I use now. I have zero issues on the Classic Turret, I mean none. If someone has problems then they are doing something wrong.
The Dillon was a nice press and part of me wishes I never sold.

The Lee Classic Turret has more quality than most people think until they see and use one. It sure surprised me. One thing it does have on the Dillon big time is switching calibers. It's way faster. You just need turrets for 12 bucks for each set of dies, pop one out and put the other in. It takes less time than it took you to read this sentench. On the Dillon I don't remember but it cost like 50 bucks and took half an hour to get it set up. Once it was set up it you can do 4-500 rounds per hour comfortably and is superior there. I don't feel like I've given up very much going to the Lee press.

 

[EddieNFL]

On the Dillon I don't remember but it cost like 50 bucks and took half an hour to get it set up.

I rarely switch mine, so I couldn't recall how long a switch-over takes. With a little time on my hands I decided to time myself.

I didn't actually switch calibers, but removed and reinstalled all the necessary parts:

Powder measure, toolhead, shellplate, locator pins, primer assembly, casefeed plate, body bushing, case adapter and station one locator. I was a little surprised at the time, so I did it again. Just over and just under nine minutes. That includes getting the box of hex wrenches and the step to reach the casefeed.

I did not switch the primer disc. One screw and a retainer clip. A minute?

You're also a bit off on the cost. A caliber conversion is $75. If you go full-blown with a quick-change including measure, it's $175.

 

[warnerwh]

The Dillon I had was purchased in the mid/early 90'sand I don't remember how much exactly but it's much more than an extra turret. Don't get me wrong. If I shot as much as I did before I got married I would still have the Dillon. That thing kicked a**. When I shipped it off after selling it I felt like I was losing a friend.
The Lee Classic Turret is a very good press. It may only cost a 100 bucks but you sure do get plenty for your money. Actually after you buy the Pro Auto Disk, the extender, Safety Prime and extra turrets cost will be closer to 200. Those items are necessities, at least in my mind, that don't come with the press. Also it's relatively easy for those that are not mechanically inclined to set up. I wouldn't want to watch my wife try to set up the XL650.

 

[AzBuckfever]

Boy, talk about getting people to stir the pot Pretty impressive that it's hit 4 pages Loved that comment about the ceiling fan chain....guess it could be like a Kirby. Something breaks, just look around the house for a replacement

Good stuff. Glad I didn't ask which was better, Dillon or Hornady....but that's already been beat to death by everyone Easy answer, LEE **lol**

 

[FROGO207]

Do I have $1,000 + invested in reloading equipment? Yep I do. And what do you know, 99% is LEE. I like the product and am able to get more of it for less$$$. Gotta love someone that keeps the others honest.

BTW that total is just in dies.

 

[AzBuckfever]

One thing I think is too interesting, innovative, and revolutionary; even more so that it does not appear that any other companies have tried it; is the Lee Class Turret....I'm just getting into reloading and have an RCBS but I will be buying a Lee Classic Turret just because it seems to work, and it's effective. Why the other top makers (RCBS, Dillon, Hornady, Redding, Lyman) haven't done this is beyond me. I know they all have turret presses or progressive, but how hard could it be to make the turret index?