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Why JHP?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by WhistlinDixie, Jan 3, 2012.

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  1. WhistlinDixie

    WhistlinDixie Member

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    Does anyone load their own defensive ammo? I've noticed that it seems to be heavily advised to only carry factory ammo to ensure legal safety. So why are so many excellent self-defense JHP bullets available? Is there some advantage to using JHP in competition or something? Or are there lots of you out there that are loading your SD rounds? I know that I am looking to buy a press kit and get into reloading soon. Not having to buy anymore expensive JHP ammo sure would be nice.
     
  2. GP100man

    GP100man Member

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    WD , it`s an age old arguement that the lawyers could use handloaded ammo against ya in court .
    But here in my neck of the woods I`ve shot clays & hunted with & on ocassion had to use there services ,but the conversation came up 1 day & 1 lawyer offered to search our records to see if even the ammo was mentioned in any case tried .

    NONE !!

    So I load my own SD/HD ammo , but it gets "different" inspection & handling than my hunting & plinkin ammo !
     
  3. Hondo 60
    • Contributing Member

    Hondo 60 Member

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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15199221/#fullstory
    Check out the story of Harold Fish.
    One line in the story says, and I quote "And this juror was disturbed by the type of bullets Fish used."


    Also...
    JHP will mushroom or peal back without losing much mass.
    This leads to great hunting results.

    And on top of that...

    Manufacturers will give the consumer anything he wants.
    Whether it makes sense or not.

    A prime example is a plated hollow point.
    I've shots thousands & recovered dozens.
    None of them were deformed when shot into wet newspaper & multiple milk jugs full of water.
    But yet that's still what I buy, so bullet companies will make them.
     
  4. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    Sure, some people recommend we buy ammo specifically made to mess up other human beings as effectively as possible. But it's bad to make your own ammo specifically tailored for blowing up milk jugs.

    I don't load SD ammo. I load ammo. If I ever need to shoot someone, I'm pretty sure it'll be with ammo. Hopefully it'll be the good watermelon exploding kind, but any ammo will do.

    If I end up shooting at someone that didn't clearly need shooting, then I hope I'm loaded with Win Clean environmentally friendly target ammo and that I miss. I'm not sure I wanna spend the money on factory ammo, but I guess I could spend more time learning how to miss. And if I have to use a knife, I hope it's got a dull, factory edge. If I sharpened it, myself, the attorneys would have a field day.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  5. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Old argument about lawyers and handloads, lots of threads on THR, including one from a couple months ago that got quite heated.

    YMMV, but I will use the best ammo I can afford. "Best" is a combination of reliability, accuracy, and probable terminal ballistic effect.

    I'm with GLOOB on this. The idea that we should use factory ammo whose maker touts its person-killing ability so we won't be accused of deliberating making ammo to effectively kill humans is silly.

    I know, many THRers will say that "silly" is taking a greater legal risk than is necessary. To me, the chances of actually needing to shoot someone are tiny, and if I do have to take that step, I'm prepared to defend the decision. So I'll add using the best ammo to the legal risk.

    Choosing lawyer/jury-proof ammo is analogous to tornado-proofing your home. If the legal system decides to take you down, down you go.
     
  6. Renigeid

    Renigeid Member

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    I roll my own SD folks. One of my rights that I still have. Just be sure it's a good shoot. that's the important thing. Jim
     
  7. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    To sell.
     
  8. 357 Terms

    357 Terms Member

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    Huge market for them.

    Most people own handguns for self defense, JHP's are the most effective in hangun calibers. That and ammo companies charge $$ big bucks for them, and get it.

    Most HP designs are effective, yet ammo companies are introducing new designs all the time, and then charging more $$ for them.

    also-
    After you have decided to pay 36$ for 20 Cor-bon DPX rounds, make sure you shoot at least 200 rounds from your hangun to ensure it functions properly! :eek:


    and yes, I roll my own (SD ammo included)
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  9. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    I would suggest getting a lot of experience under your belt before loading your own defensive ammo. A good JHP should fly better than a FMJ for comp shooters, but I don’t shoot well enough to see the difference. I do load a lot of Hornady HAP’s; it’s basically a XTP w/o the cuts for expansion and is a lot cheaper for target shooting.

    Edit: Legal issues? I have no idea. The way I see it, if I'm justified in shooting someone to protect my family or self, I don’t know why it would matter if I used factory ammo, reloaded ammo or a ninja sword.
     
  10. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    There are a couple of things against FMJ ammo. 1st it does not have controlled expansion and passes on through hitting whats behind your target. I'm not going to get into the legal stuff but you do not want over penetration. Since you are responsible for everything that bullets hit. It's better to have one that stops in CM. 2nd point is that mfg of HD ammo use a special powder that in not available to the public. This is a Low Flash powder so your not blinded at night. I buy by carry ammo but my practice ammo matches the same feel as the factory stuff.
     
  11. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    I tend to use factory ammunition for self defense mostly because I do not want to change over my reloading set up for a different bullet. I know, an insignificant reason.

    Also, the firearms I shoot the most, i do not use for self defense so I use components that are reasonable in in cost and accurate in my firearms.

    For the self defense firearms, I practice with reloads, then shoot some of the factory once in a while to re-familiarize myself with its performance. But the reloads and factory do not perform very differently, just the bullets are different.

    As far as the legal aspect, in my unsupported, uneducated opinion, if the prosecutor is ambitious and has his or her sights set on the Supreme Court or some fact simile, it won't matter if you are using reloads or factory for self defense. You are toast in his or her eyes.
     
  12. Striker Fired

    Striker Fired Member

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    I just load what shoots good out of my guns,some of it happens to be using "good" sd bullets.I have a couple half empty boxes of factory ammo that i keep around so if anything happens I'll just say that is what I used,even if it was my own(just have to make sure my loads look the same as the factory).
     
  13. bds

    bds Member

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    This is my "opinion" only. For many decades, especially living in "sue happy" California, I held the notion like many others that I needed to use factory JHP to reduce/minimize legal liabilities for justified shooting situations.

    In recent years, especially after reading several exhaustive THR threads on the pros/cons of loading your own defensive ammunition, I reached the conclusion that this was not necessarily the case as I have yet to find a single case that led to conviction of a justified shooting that involved reloaded ammunition.

    Gun powder residue argument that's often referenced "helps" crime scene/forensic personnel but the use of reloaded defensive ammunition have not changed the outcome for justified shooting cases I have referenced.

    Now, I use the following argument for those who still believe reloading your own defensive rounds is "illegal/wrong". I live in a city where home invasion robberies that often ends with murder is a regular occurrence. Even if I was reloading my plinking/range practice ammunition such as 45ACP 200 gr lead SWC in the garage/reloading room where a home invasion robbery "attempt" results in a justified shooting situation, I would not hesitate to use whatever resources I had available to defend my life and the lives of my family. If anyone asked why I used my own reloaded ammunition, I would answer, "Because that's what was available to me at that moment to defend my life." If I had to, I would not hesitate to grab the calipers on the bench to defend my life. ;)

    Justified shooting is justified shooting, regardless of what ammunition is used to protect one's life or lives of others. Yes, I do use bulk Gold Dot and Golden Saber JHP bullets to load my "practice" SD/HD ammunition to duplicate same factory JHP's POA/POI.

    I am not a lawyer, so take my opinion for what it's worth. ;)

    This is what California Penal Code Sections 197 through 199 say - http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=pen
     
  14. WhistlinDixie

    WhistlinDixie Member

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    Thanks guys. Lots of good replies. A good shoot should be a good shoot. The tornado analogy is a good one, I think.

    I am curious if anyone has any more info on the "low flash powder" used in factory SD ammo. Any truth to that?
     
  15. 340PD

    340PD Member

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    I load them and call them anti ricochet rounds.
     
  16. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    Our attorney says that he can't find one case in which someone was convicted for using excessive lethal force the sole result of using a hand loaded round. Although the argument will continue well beyond this point, I feel it is certain that if you were with no option but to use lethal force, no one is going to care if it was hand loaded or factory made.

    I carry the a nastiest hand loaded .357 magnum HP round I can find, pushed by a full house H110 powder charge.
     
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  17. popper

    popper Member

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    For pistol, the heaviest chunk of any kind of lead I can get a 2 shot center of mass hit at 50 ft. If they are wearing kevlar, the stun will let me get closer and more accurate. Same thing for rifle, at 50 yds. Longer than that, it's not SD.
     
  18. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    At home and at church, I carry .38 Special +P's hand-loaded with soft lead 158 grain HP's. I am unlikely to need any GSR testing to corroborate my story in either location, and that's actually where I carry the most often.

    When I'm out and about, I usually carry Fiocchi 125 grain JHP's (.38 Special +P) or Silver Bear 9mm Makarov JHP. If I was out of factory ammo I would carry handloads if I needed to, but I prefer factory stuff for that.
     
  19. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Good load, gamestalker. Even if you miss him, the muzzle blast is liable to at least singe him.:D

    Don
     
  20. Waywatcher

    Waywatcher Member

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    The way I would explain it, if someone asked, is: "I use handloads for defence because I can't afford factory; it's about triple the cost for my .357 magnum. I also enjoy making my ammo, it's a hobby and like making homemade cookies--you get to use your favorite ingredients." I think it would also be easily defensible if you have a load that is simply on hand; one that you use all the time for target practice and hunting.

    If you are reloading specifically to make "nasty" or "hot" loads, I think you are setting a bad stage, though...
     
  21. WhistlinDixie

    WhistlinDixie Member

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    Good point, waywatcher. I would be loading as close to factory silvertips as possible, strictly because it would be cheaper.
     
  22. glockky

    glockky Member

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    Well I personally do not carry my reloads right now because I havent been able to find a powder that will give me the 1200fps in a 185gr 45. But i do not see how anyone could tell the difference as far as the appearance of the cartridge. My double taps are loaded with nosler JHP just like the ones me and you buy.

    But i think many people carry reloads and bullet manufactures realize that, and then there people like me who prefer to carry a premium hollowpoint like an XTP whenever i am running around on the farm and might decide to pop a deer or varmit with my pistol.
     
  23. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

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    Like Tuner says, because there's a market for them.

    Those who compete and win at the highest levels of competition in the shooting sports use hand-loaded ammunition. I'm not in that league, but I use handloaded ammunition in competition. I use it in my training classes. I use it when I practice. Because it costs much less, I can shoot much more and stay proficient. I can get better quality, and the variety lets me tailor my ammunition to my needs.

    I use handloaded ammunition pretty much exclusively.


    Shooting handloaded ammunition in practically everything I do, I don't know why I'd opt for a poorer substitute - that I'd shoot rarely - for carry ammo.
     
  24. 4895

    4895 Member

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    I load Speer Gold Dots in my SD ammo. It is just too expensive to buy SD ammo at $1+ per round. It may be better to carry Police ammo instead. I wouldn't expect more than a 15 foot self defense shot. At that range, center mass is pretty big.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  25. James2

    James2 Member

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    I do. I give no heed to the lawyer thing. I figure reliability is one thing I would really like in my defense ammo. In many thousands of rounds I have had none fail to fire. I usually carry a 44 spl loaded with Berry's HP bullets with a good dose of Unique behind them. Only thing I can say more is, I darned sure would not want to stop one of those.
     
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