Why No Micrometer Adjusting Expanders?

I think I know how to make what I want—

1. Start with micrometer adjusting seating die.
2. Take an expanding stem from an expanding die. Cut an inch or so off the end.
3. JBWeld that piece into the stem of the seating die in number 1, above.
4. Voila, a micrometer expander.
 
CQB45ACP said:
Not quite. Actually not at all.

I already sort by mfr. headstamp.

And I now sort by case length—because I want to that’s why.

So, as I said previously, the expansion of a .898” case would be different than if adjustment was made for a .888”

And I don’t want ANY flare. None. Only expansion.
Click to expand...

You don't want any flair, just expansion? I guess I'm not sure what you're talking about. You want consistent inside diameter? They make something called a mandrel die for that. You can get mandrels of all kinds of sizes. However, they aren't exactly quick change.
 
longdayjake said:
You don't want any flair, just expansion? I guess I'm not sure what you're talking about. You want consistent inside diameter? They make something called a mandrel die for that. You can get mandrels of all kinds of sizes. However, they aren't exactly quick change.
Click to expand...
Take a look at expander stem in this picture. It’s Redding’s version of the M.

Only the top Nth begins the flare. Below that to the end is expansion. That depth is what I want to control with a micrometer. I could have lots of flare or no flare.

I of course can and do control it now with the screw in stem and ring but I want it micrometer controlled since it’s only a really fine amount.

IMG_4365.jpeg
 
I just bought 3 expander inserts (.458", .459", and .460") from Track of the Wolf, along with the die they offer that holds any of the inserts. Each sized insert is also very slightly tapered, so has adjustability built into it, and the changes in achieved size are NOT sudden as they tend to be with a normal expander/flarer setup, but rather very smooth and slow.

These are marketed to BPCR shooters who need an expander setup that does not create a large "flare" that has to then be subsequently removed. Those shooters apparently, like me with my smokeless reloading for my Pedersoli Sharps replica rifle, want a finished case that allows the cartridgecase to fully chamber while enabling the bullet to encounter the rifling and allow the bullet to be pushed further into the case as the case is chambered fully, without losing the rifling contact.

This has greatly changed my handloading, as it allows me to positively stablize the very narrow ogive head of the bullet in the rifling to prevent jump which apparently allows the bullet to "rattle around" a bit before traveling down the barel, and that was hurting its stability and accuracy. It also has enabled me to completely remove my earlier "de-flaring" step in my handloading.

The OP might find this design of expander appealing.

Jim G
 
Hornady also offers a self-standing mircometer adjuster that can be fitted to many of their dies. I have one and it works great. I am not sure what other brands of dies it might fit. I don't knwo how standardized or unstandardized the various threads on dies are.

Jim G
 
JimGnitecki said:
I just bought 3 expander inserts (.458", .459", and .460") from Track of the Wolf, along with the die they offer that holds any of the inserts. Each sized insert is also very slightly tapered, so has adjustability built into it, and the changes in achieved size are NOT sudden as they tend to be with a normal expander/flarer setup, but rather very smooth and slow.

These are marketed to BPCR shooters who need an expander setup that does not create a large "flare" that has to then be subsequently removed. Those shooters apparently, like me with my smokeless reloading for my Pedersoli Sharps replica rifle, want a finished case that allows the cartridgecase to fully chamber while enabling the bullet to encounter the rifling and allow the bullet to be pushed further into the case as the case is chambered fully, without losing the rifling contact.

This has greatly changed my handloading, as it allows me to positively stablize the very narrow ogive head of the bullet in the rifling to prevent jump which apparently allows the bullet to "rattle around" a bit before traveling down the barel, and that was hurting its stability and accuracy. It also has enabled me to completely remove my earlier "de-flaring" step in my handloading.

The OP might find this design of expander appealing.

Jim G
Click to expand...
Thanks
 
Thanks for all the comments and ideas

I figure I can spend a couple hundred on various parts and make one myself or

Hire a machinist to make one at who knows what price or

Maybe even Hornady would make a custom bottom half onto which I could add their micrometer or

Can wait until the reloading mfrs catches up to my idea and in the meantime I’ll continue to use my Redding expander.
 
Maybe I'm just simple, but why not just make some witness marks on the existing expander/flare stem?

A sharp scribe and a straight edge would allow you to mark the top, and you could put as many lines as you want. If you know the thread pitch then you could determine how far the expander moves with each scribe line. A machinist would probably mark it for you, and you'd know it would be accurate.

Just a thought.

chris
 
CQB45ACP said:
Thanks for all the comments and ideas

I figure I can spend a couple hundred on various parts and make one myself or

Hire a machinist to make one at who knows what price or

Maybe even Hornady would make a custom bottom half onto which I could add their micrometer or

Can wait until the reloading mfrs catches up to my idea and in the meantime I’ll continue to use my Redding expander.
Click to expand...

Mitutoyo Large Thimble 0.59" Diameter Measuring Micrometer Head 0-0.5"

Mitutoyo Large Thimble Diameter Measuring Micrometer Heads for easy readings
www.microscopeworld.com

In case you decide to go with DIY.
 
ballman6711 said:
Maybe I'm just simple, but why not just make some witness marks on the existing expander/flare stem?

A sharp scribe and a straight edge would allow you to mark the top, and you could put as many lines as you want. If you know the thread pitch then you could determine how far the expander moves with each scribe line. A machinist would probably mark it for you, and you'd know it would be accurate.

Just a thought.

chris
Click to expand...
I have paint dots now but as you can guess they’re as accurate as blobs of paint can be.
 
CQB45ACP said:
I have paint dots now but as you can guess they’re as accurate as blobs of paint can be.
Click to expand...

That can be pretty accurate, if the threads are fine enough. After all that’s in essence what a micrometer is, just visual indicators and a drum that goes round and round with them.

Even with 14 threads per inch our reloading dies have 1 full revolution = .0714”. A 1/4 turn = .0178 and 1/8 = .008925. Put a mark on the die and read it like a clock from the top.

.0714/12= .00595 every “hour” will be about .006”.
 
Last edited:
This is not rocket science (maybe it’s harder)

Here are some parts I have lying around and in use—

The micrometer stem in the picture is Redding’s aftermarket seating stem.

To the right is the expanding stem from a standard Redding expanding die and then it’s die body.

To right of that is the expanding stem from Redding’s special or premium expander and it’s body. Note the actual expander is threaded onto stem. (But neither it nor stem are sold separately.)

The micrometer drops right into either die body with same threads. It would work perfectly if I could add an expander to the seater.
 

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jmorris said:
That can be pretty accurate, if the threads are fine enough. After all that’s in essence what a micrometer is, just visual indicators and a drum that goes round and round with them.

Even with 14 threads per inch our reloading dies have 1 full revolution = .0714”. A 1/4 turn = .0178 and 1/8 = .008925. Put a mark on the die and read it like a clock from the top.
Click to expand...
Essentially the same BUT not in operation.

The stem requires a lock ring to keep it firmly in place as it fits fairly loosely in the body. Thus, if you loosen the lock ring without holding the stem, you also turn the stem.

I want, I desire, I need, a micrometer:)
 
CQB45ACP said:
So looking through catalogs it’s surprising (to me) no one sells a similar adjustable expander...

Under what circumstances would such be valuable? Expanding a batch of .888” 45acp brass and then some .898” and then some .893” each to get the expansion but no actual flare.
Click to expand...

People make what they can sell and most people would just raise their expander so they wouldn’t flare the longest case they might shove in there and on the shortest cases they are expanded .005” shallower.

Same as if you are adjusting the flare normally, if you want more, go down, if you want less go up.

DF14FD56-632F-4621-9B31-43D2116AB9F2.jpeg
If the contact area of you expander (without going deep enough to flare) is greater than the amount of bullet that‘s in the case by .005“ or more, there won’t be any difference anyway and no need to change anything.

That said, if it’s an itch you just have to have scratched, how much money do you want to spend on your custom one of a kind micrometer expander?
 
This is what I am talking about. The powder funnel has to be pushed in beyond the blue line in order to flare the mouth but will expand the case down to the red one.

Note there are many thousandths (well over your .005” case length difference) of an inch before that case would be flared but it would have already expanded deeper than the bullet will sit.

1B375C5D-A60C-45D6-A8C6-1CACD7D2E85E.jpeg
 
jmorris said:
People make what they can sell and most people would just raise their expander so they wouldn’t flare the longest case they might shove in there and on the shortest cases they are expanded .005” shallower.

Same as if you are adjusting the flare normally, if you want more, go down, if you want less go up.

View attachment 1171580
If the contact area of you expander (without going deep enough to flare) is greater than the amount of bullet that‘s in the case by .005“ or more, there won’t be any difference anyway and no need to change anything.

That said, if it’s an itch you just have to have scratched, how much money do you want to spend on your custom one of a kind micrometer expander?
Click to expand...
Yes and I certainly know how to do it and have been doing it and unfortunately will continue to do it. It’s cumbersome but it is what it is.

And yes I know the basic economics of it all.

BUT I want a micrometer. And know how it could be made rather simply albeit rather expensively as a one off.

Im thinking I can buy several expander dies and several micrometers give them to a skilled machinist and end up with what I want. $1000 should do it.

Thanks for engaging in this exercise:)
 
jmorris said:
This is what I am talking about. The powder funnel has to be pushed in beyond the blue line in order to flare the mouth but will expand the case down to the red one.

Note there are many thousandths (well over your .005” case length difference) of an inch before that case would be flared but it would have already expanded deeper than the bullet will sit.

View attachment 1171581
Click to expand...
Yes I understand

thanks again
 
jmorris said:
People make what they can sell and most people would just raise their expander so they wouldn’t flare the longest case they might shove in there and on the shortest cases they are expanded .005” shallower.

Same as if you are adjusting the flare normally, if you want more, go down, if you want less go up.
Click to expand...
I use a variant method: I adjust my die for the first half dozen or so cases I grab then adjust my stroke on the lever for the rest of the batch. I can tell by the feel of the handle when the case mouth hits the bell. I stop there and lower the ram. It works for me. I don’t think it’s going to work for @CQB45ACP or anyone else.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
I use a variant method: I adjust my die for the first half dozen or so cases I grab then adjust my stroke on the lever for the rest of the batch. I can tell by the feel of the handle when the case mouth hits the bell. I stop there and lower the ram. It works for me. I don’t think it’s going to work for @CQB45ACP or anyone else.
Click to expand...
Between this and knowing what @jmorris said/showed, I see my future. Don’t like it but I see it.
 
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