Why so much hostility towards "tactical"

[Keith Wheeler]

I like my guns like my race cars -- equipped with only what they need to get the job done.

And if the "accessories" start to weigh more than the gun, something's wrong...well perhaps with the exception of my 1919.

 

[DRMMR02]

Quote:
I can shoot a "tactical whizzbang" shorty AR with all of the bells and whistles and out-shoot 99% of the posters on THR.
If you can, you have the right to do so.

I just have an issue with the people who think that the look of their AR will do anything to help their performance, or that the number of things hanging off of it affects their accuracy in a positive way.

If I had an AR, I'd have a scope & bi-pod, 20" Stainless, maybe a more comfy grip. And a Beta C to mess with people .

As it sits, my stock Garand can out-shoot most of the "whizzbang tacti-cool" AR users in any position. And, it doesn't need anything hanging off of it to make it look better (well, maybe the bayonet, but only to annoy leftists ).

So my big qualm is assuming that if one does have a taced-out AR, that they must be a poser. Some people are, others, like Corriea, are great shooters that can use the equipment fine.

So why not just ignore who uses what equipment and who doesn't and just focus on who can shoot?

 

[madmike]

Bottled water, "Tactical" accessories.

Admit it, we're all just jealous we didn't think of it first.

I actually came up with a marketing plan for water in high school in the 80s.

"Emergency survival water, evaporated. 8 ounces. Mix with 8 ounces of normal water. Makes 1 pint."

You know it would sell in the right package.

And my bayonet makes gunnies freak. Lefties wet their pants

 

[sixgunner455]

re: north hollywood

There were plenty of violent bank robbers in times past. Clyde Barlow, Pretty Boy Floyd, John Dillinger, Machine Gun Kelly, the Jameses, the Youngers, etc, etc. Some of them even used high capacity, rapid fire guns in their heists, and killed outgunned cops and civilians.

 

[DRMMR02]

There were plenty of violent bank robbers in times past. Clyde Barlow, Pretty Boy Floyd, John Dillinger, Machine Gun Kelly, the Jameses, the Youngers, etc, etc. Some of them even used high capacity, rapid fire guns in their heists, and killed outgunned cops and civilian

So that's not really a reason to say that SWAT teams are unnecessary, and that all we need is "community policing"

 

[ezypikns]

I don't think ANYONE is making fun of REAL Police Officers here.

Or denying the necessity for highly trained groups of REAL law enforcement officers.

It's all the folks playing like them.

 

[DRMMR02]

Well it has been said on this thread and others that SWAY teams are useless and just create more problems. That they are overhyped Ninjas, that honest men don't hide their faces, and that all you really need is 2 detectives with snub-nosed revolvers knocking on doors. Those things have indeed been said.

 

[mustanger98]

So that's not really a reason to say that SWAT teams are unnecessary, and that all we need is "community policing"

Or denying the necessity for highly trained groups of REAL law enforcement officers.

It's all the folks playing like them.

Well it has been said on this thread and others that SWAY teams are useless and just create more problems. That they are overhyped Ninjas, that honest men don't hide their faces, and that all you really need is 2 detectives with snub-nosed revolvers knocking on doors. Those things have indeed been said.

1- (Covers 1st and 2nd quotes) It would be good if citizens would do more than to just depend on the police. Not that citizens should "act like cops", but that folks need to wise up and keep their eyes and ears open and be able to take care of stuff when it hits the fan. It is necessary though that real cops need to be called to fill out the after-action reports and make any arrests of surviving miscreants.

2- (Covers 3rd quote) SWAT teams are not useless. They're have however possibly become over-used. SWAT aside, no honest man I know ever hid his face... he never had to. I do recall the reference to the Lone Ranger... while I've always been in favor of the principles Clayton Moore put across through the character, you don't have to wear a mask to be that way.

 

[Grizzley Adams]

personaly i dont care if it is tatical or what.i belive you should buy and use what works best for your enviroment,for me it is the guns i own wich is 2 pistols,a rifle and a shotgun.but my guns are used for fun and putting food on the table.now i know that doesnt apply in the city so i belive you should adjust your guns and such accordingly,and this is coming from a old geezer .i am a firm beliver in using what suits you best for your needs.and i own a shotgun that is synthetic and it is great espically on them cold snowy or rainy days when i feel like having some rabbit or something for the stew that evening.

 

[Gewehr98]

Believe it or not, I actually have a tactical Garand.

Well, after the Italians took our Winchester Garand tooling and made their own version of the M14 with it, even before our own M14 started mass issue:



Those folks at Pietro Beretta were some sort of smart, using our tooling to make the BM-59 for the newly-adopted 7.62mm NATO round. Straight oprod, TriCompensator, expansion chamber gas system, gas cutoff valve, in a shorter, lighter package. Mine is the Nigerian export model, same configuration as the one above. No lights mounted on it, though - bad guys like to shoot at lights and lasers.

 

[madmike]

Yeah, that was another strike against the M14--that someone else did better, sooner.

 

[Robob4]

Anyone hostile to tactical weaponry will get vaporized by lasers soon. Good luck with your 1911's then.

 

[mustanger98]

Somebody's been playing too many video games lately.

 

[cbsbyte]

Tactical gear is fine for LEO and military but gay for civilian use, to me it is a waste of money.

 

[Robob4]

Anybody not willing to spend money on the latest tactical gear needs some perspective. Cable TV will not save your life. A tactical vest will.

 

[madmike]

Knowing something of lasers...

The best practical laser out there for that sort of thing is about 15% efficient. Physics decides this. There's little you can do to improve it.

1 foot pound = 3.766160833e-7 kilowatt hour

so, 600 foot pound = 0.000 225 97 kilowatt hour (minimal reliable stop)

and, 1300 foot pound = 0.000 489 601 kilowatt hour (M16 muzzle equiv)

Assume a half second burst on target. (We will assume steady influx, not pulse, even though pulse is standard) 6.8 kilowatts.

So, to put 6.8 kilowatts on target means 45.3 kilowatts generated, with 38.5 of them wasted as heat. That's the heat from 25 hairdryers every burst, which means you carry a lot of ice, a refrigerator, or you fry.

Not to mention the minor problem of carrying a power source big enough.

Solid state lasers can be more efficient. IIRC, 60% has been mentioned for certain applications as a design goal. But even still, that's a lot of energy to pack into a portable power source, and so far, SS lasers aren't compact enough either, though they are much better.

If I've screwed up my figures anywhere, someone please say so.

 

[XD Fan]

5.11 Pants

I am a little baffled by the hostility toward BDU pants. They seem like they would be extremely(Please note this is an adverb not an adjective ) comfortable and practical for shooting, hunting or just living. I do not currently own a pair but I love my cargo shorts for all those activities. That being said, I tend to think mall ninja when I see someone in blact cargo pants.

 

[madmike]

I do wear black BDU pants. One pocket for ID, one for small pistol, one for knife, one for keys and nothing in back. Handy. THey're also $20 a pair and tough.

Of course, I've worn all black for 22 years now...

As to camo BDUs...why? I wear them on duty and I wear them hunting or maybe at the range because they're tough. They're not daywear. Where does woodland camo help in the mall? And wearing urban or desert in the mall just makes you look silly.

NOTE: Other vets who choose to wear either just pants or sanitized shirt as a recognition badge are okay. You earned it, you show it as a club ID.

 

[Hawk]

A minor non-tactical victory was scored today: I just got back from a 600 mile round trip to Florence, TX to pickup what may have been one of the last STI VIPs (double-stack Commander-sized 1911) in captivity.

It's black, it has a fair amount of polymer but, unlike its replacement, it is wonderfully unburdened by light rail. I tend to share the concerns voiced by those questioning the wisdom of someone like myself aiming the weapon at whatever we're trying to ID. Gums up the holster situation too.

But its clear we curmudgeons are losing - the VIP was, after all, discontinued.

...Cable TV will not save your life....

Sure it will - if you're watching soap operas instead of selling Avon at crack houses. The later activity might benefit from a tac vest. I suppose the truly tactical could wear the vest while watching TV - there's a one-two safety punch.

 

[thexrayboy]

Man what a thread! It's been hijacked more times than a hooptie in South Central!

 

[madmike]

I Am Hijacking This Thread To Cuba!

What?

Fidel's been wearing fatigues since the 50s.

Now THAT is tacticool.

 

[Chris Rhines]

I like my guns like my race cars -- equipped with only what they need to get the job done.

This is probably a pretty good policy. Brian Enos once said something along the lines of, "Every modification you make to your firearms should be made with an eye toward performance." In other words, have a specific gain in mind before whipping out the credit card and the GG&G catalog.

- Chris

 

[lionking]

quote xdfan;I am a little baffled by the hostility toward BDU pants. They seem like they would be extremely(Please note this is an adverb not an adjective ) comfortable and practical for shooting, hunting or just living. I do not currently own a pair but I love my cargo shorts for all those activities. That being said, I tend to think mall ninja when I see someone in blact cargo pants

lol yeah,like I said they are comfortable but sometimes at a range you'll see someone camo'd out with a AK or AR and after watching them you can see the way they handle the firearm that they don't have much experience,their target never goes further then the 25yd line.

I once rented a room to a guy who went shooting with me a couple times,he would dress in black and ugh,was slighty out of shape if you know what I mean.He sure did look big (emphasis on big) and bad though dressed like a swat dude with his Makarov lol!....sheesh

TV shows?Hey after watching Jericho I feel totally informed on what to do when a nuke goes off!

Now please excuse me,its a nice day so Im going out dressed in my tactical bluejeans with my tactical M1917 and M1903a3.....blow up some communist soda cans.

 

[XavierBreath]

I note that most of the tactical stuff I see, from AR FLIR pods to HUD scopes have very little wear. The guns they attach to seem to have very little wear as well. Of course, that could be because of the super duper tactical hostile environment finishes.............

Tactical has become a word to describe an underused object of desire rather than a gun. These accessorized weapons are like enshrined talismans against evil, that are rarely, if ever put to actual use. That is why "tactical" has become the latest joke description.

 

[strambo]

I think cargo pants, BDU's and 5.11s in non-camo colors are fine for very casual wear and not too tacky. Criticizing a guy in Tan BDU pants seems a bit anal to me. I have 2 pair of 5.11s that I got issued to me and I'm gonna wear them till they wear out. If that makes me look like a "wannabe" so be it. I'm not gonna screen print my resume on a T-shirt to prove otherwise.