Why so much hostility towards "tactical"

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I confess I'm a posser, every morning I put on my tactical carhart double knee loggers and tactical tee shirt with special pocket. Then pull on a pair of Danner or Filson boots with the tactical lug sole. If its cold I'll put on tactical fleece.I haven't steped up to the black loggers but prefere black or camo fleece. Some times I even go with the pants with all the pockets.
 
I hope all this tactical crap is just a passing fancy, because all it does fan the flames of the anti's!!
 
Reality Check ....

It matters not if someone on the range dresses in tactical clothing or not.
What matters is how effectively they put holes in the target.

Our colleague .38 Special has a good point - that sometimes dressing tactical is more of a sign of a 'Wannabe' than anything else. To be effective and to be ready is to practice, practice, practice, learn some more and then practice again.

I once had a gunsmith who constantly wore tight black tee shirts, black 5.11 pants, boots and had tactical folders in pockets on each leg. His only friends were shooters. His whole life seemed to revolve around firearms and weaponry. While I respected his firearm knowledge and skill as a gunsmith, I wondered from time to time if with his daily clothing choices and standard accoutrements whether or not he ever got laid.

Tactical anything should not be a yardstick for cool. Tactical should merely be a descriptor applied to gear that is practical and helpful. No matter how tactical one dresses or what amount of tactical gear they have, it still boils down to one simple reality: Skills versus Appearance.
 
I hope all this tactical crap is just a passing fancy, because all it does fan the flames of the anti's!!
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Nah, anything fans them. Cheap guns are Saturday night specials." Expensive ones are "military style assault weapon of mass destruction rambo killing machines." Bolt actions are "Military sniper assassin weapons." Powerful ones can "take down airliners." Weak ones are "ineffective and a danger." Cowboy action shooters are "dangerous fantasists reliving the violence of the Old West." Hunting is "bloodsport." Reactive shooting is "murder training."

Actually, I've found it best to quietly tweak them into a tizzy so it's obvious they're loons.

BTW: I'd never heard of 5.11 pants or whatever until this thread. After a google, they look like the dorky farmer style jeans Wrangler used to sell. What's the deal?
 
Exactly my point. Everything useful and some stuff that isn't has been hijacked by the tactical money changers. If you have a knife that you can open with one hand while you using the other it used to be useful. If you had clothing that fit loosly were durable and allowed some range of motion they were called trousers or dungerees or maybe fatiges or heaven forbid BDU's. Now tactical. A rifle that you put time into working the trigger, bedding the stock, putting on quality glass,working up a good load and maybe going synthetic with the stock was called a shooter or maybe a pet name of affection now is a tactical sniper rifle.The skills of woodcraft that every country boy learned about shooting, the woods, tracking, living off the land and the list goes on. While most didn't take it to the higest level learned what is now called tactics. But hey if you just got the latest cataloge from the I'm a black ninja put a hole in your head from a mile away tactical store and it was selling useful stuff they wouldn't sell much would they?
 
BTW: I'd never heard of 5.11 pants or whatever until this thread. After a google, they look like the dorky farmer style jeans Wrangler used to sell. What's the deal?
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I gather that Royal Robbins was a rock climber. 5.11 is near the top of a scale denoting difficulty of a climb or some such.

Somebody figured out they functioned well for other stuff, "tactical" labeling was liberally applied and the price goes up 20%. The rock hounds are getting quite a hoot out of the entire phenomenon.

...or so goes the urban legend I heard on 5.11.

hmmm, found this:
YDS

excerpt:
5.0 to 5.4 There are two hand- and two footholds for every move; the holds become progressively smaller as the number increases.

5.5 to 5.6 The two hand- and two footholds are there, obvious to the experienced, but not necessarily so to the beginner.

5.7 The move is missing one hand- or foothold.

5.8 The move is missing two holds of the four, or missing only one but is very strenuous.

5.9 The move has only one reasonable hold which may be for either a foot or a hand.

5.10 No hand- or footholds. The choices are to pretend a hold is there, pray a lot, or go home.

5.11 After thorough inspection you conclude this move is obviously impossible; however, occasionally someone actually accomplishes it. Since there is nothing for a handhold, grab it with both hands.

5.12 The surface is as smooth as glass and vertical. No one has really ever made this move, although a few claim they have.

5.13 This is identical to 5.12 except it is located under overhanging rock."
Click to expand...

Hence, 5.11 unh... "tactical" (?!)
 
To throw in my two cents....


Tactcal should really only apply to anything that makes you or your weapon... more tactical.

The military uses the term to define anything that will make you a more effective soldier. Using tape on zippers to silence them. Using a light (or two) on your weapon to illuminate an area. Taping watch faces so that you don't scratch/break the bezel. Ask any soldier what he uses most (besides his gun) and he'll probably say "90 mile per hour tape." "Snipers" (I hate that term, as well, at least when applied before "rifle") use tape to make a small slit on each end of the scope, to avoid reflection. They also wear ghillies and stuff. This is for tactical reasons. Tactic being the root.


Kneepads, combat boots, 5.11 HRT pants, a balaclava, kevlar helmet, ESS goggles, 2 Surefire combat lights, an ACOG, a boyonet and an AR will look right at home (when colored in ARPAT or Marine Woodland) in the sandbox. But when they are worn (when colored in black) in your living room, you sort of look... Rediculous. Unless you are a S.W.A.T or some sort of special teams member of a police force, do we really need all that?


Now: I will NOT say that a weapon light, EOtech, and numerous other things on the front of your AR is the dumb form of tactical. Some of us like thos things. I think when somebody says something like... "Man, that glock has the most tactical trigger ever!" or "Man, that guy was so tactical... Did you see the sweet Maxpedition pack he had?" they deserve to be slapped.


Sorry, it's late and I'm very tired... I'll see if this makes sense in the morning.
 
In response to the 5.11 post:

Yes, it was initially a rock climbing gear company. Then, Law Enforcement started liking the ruggedness of their pants, and wah-lah! A legend is born!

I will say this... 5.11 products are WAY over....engineered. I own a coupla pairs of the TDU pants, and they are friggin' AWESOME! Yes, I wear a gun at work. I also carry around a lot of crap (heh, three surefire flashlights and a streamlight stinger, plus OC, ASP and Ruger P90) and they are the most durable, comfortable, and just plain well-made pair of BDUs I have ever purchased.
 
Wildomar:

While that term is getting use in the military, that's a carryover from CIVILIAN marketing.

The two military definitions of tactical are either something that relates to tactics--a night move with NVG, equipping a vehicle with support weapons, conducting a recon, etc, or

something portable within the unit's organic capabilities, not requiring external support.

My wife is a combat photographer. Her "Tactical" rig is a Nikon D50 with a laptop, in lieu of a full darkroom or a large computer and desktop monitor. I am head utilities geek for an Infantry Brigade. My "Tactical" cooling equipment is a brute force R22 air conditioner powered by an attached generator and using manual dampers for humidity/fresh air control, in lieu of a digitally controlled centrifugal zone system for an office complex.

Generally "Tactical" means "rugged, crude and adequate" as opposed to "Glamorous, flashy and sensitive."

Most of the so-called "Tactical" accessories are useless weight or fragile, and therefore by definition are not tactical.
 
Most of the so-called "Tactical" accessories are useless weight or fragile, and therefore by definition are not tactical.
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That's a good point. Tactical equipment goes hand in hand with actual tactics. Meaning that the equipment should be able to withstand more and rougher use than an everyday civilian usually puts it through. "Tactical" equipment is meant for serious jobs. Many things pegged as tactical you would not actually find being used by real operators, and people who actually need "tactical" stuff.
 
Which is partly why civilians want some of that stuff. "If the military uses it, it must be durable and/or reliable."

My only foray into the tactical universe is when I think about some of the guns I own and try to think what I would use them for, how would I tote all the mags I would want if I was walking, or what would I need if I was using it at night. You can answer those questions and stay simple. You don't need all your gear all the time and you really don't need all your gear. :)
 
About the taser,

Does it make a good grip as well. it looks like you have long range and hand to hand defense pretty well covered.
:rolleyes:
 
One more question.

shoulnt you have rubber grips to reduce the risk of zappin youself. i can picture that backfiring on you.
:rolleyes:
 
I spilled coffee on my tactical pants

Hey, I like reading threads here, but 8 pages...geesh...plus usually by about page 5 people are mad about what other people wrote earlier.

I've got a couple of pairs of 5.11 pants and they really rock. Well made, rugged, etc. Comfortable too.

But...What's the deal with the little pocket on the left side, with the velcro flap? Cell Phone..I think. When I get nervous I can open and close it and make a velcro noise. Really irritates other people. A pen is too long to fit.

Also the wierd web material strap across the right side between the butt and the front pocket? I think it's to attach something with clips. Holster? In case you don't have a belt? Handle for playing grabass?

I didn't know these created debate and controversy. I bought mine in the Px. Everyone here wears them. Even the lady who runs the janitorial crew. She isn't really tactical in the classical sense, but gets high marks regarding the cleanliness of the building...which is sometimes under tactical conditions.

The Px got a big batch in one color, and within a few days everyone not in uniform was wearing the same pants. Kinda funny. Certain PSC's use them as a sort of uniform. The shirts look like too much...even for me. Straps and pockets galore.

I plan to keep wearing them. Sorry I don't own any in black. I like tan so the dust and dirt doesn't show. I have been wearing less tactical but similar pants for years - like Levis Dockers. They look classier than jeans, are more comfortable, and last longer. Personal preference.

Would it be redundant to call something BLACTICAL if it was black in color, kinda like a Blacula (Black Vampire)? Does TACTICAL imply black in color, or necessitate the color choice?



p.s. MadMike - I've read a few of your books. Very good stuff.
 
Blacktical? :D Kind of like Blackula? I'm going to have to use that.

For you anti-tactical folks:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=46934&d=1161882394

That's me and my latest baby. I call it the AR-SD. (I wanted the front end to look like an MP5-SD) Stag upper & lower, Tac16 suppresor, EoTech 553, YHM free float rail, YHM flip up front, ARMS 40L flip up rear, ACE Boomstock, and not pictured is a big honking Surefire 220 lumen light that is going on it. I can also add a 3x magnifier, green laser, or invisible IR laser (for when I'm wearing night vision) whenever I feel like it.

Now I wait for anti-tactical heads to explode! :D
 
I get a big kick out of some photos of a certain group over at ar15.com hometown forums who go to the gun range all decked out in camo and molle vests and all the goodies. Majority of these clowns are Rambo, Military, and LEO wannabees.
 
One more question.
shoulnt you have rubber grips [on that taser] to reduce the risk of zappin youself. i can picture that backfiring
Click to expand...

Yep, I've spoken with a Sheriff's Deputy who had a similar setup on his duty carbine and initially he had the taser mounted a bit too close to some of the metal bits on the underside of the AR and it shorted out when he was playing with, er, um, testing it. Took the whole 5 second jolt up one arm, across his chest, and back down the other arm. He laughs about it now.
 
I'll bet that laugh is more an involuntary nervous tick- er, tick- er, tick-SMACK! I'm OK now. After reviewing all the posts, you can boil much of it down to "rediculously overused terminology."
 
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