Why Stay

[loneviking]

California born, bred and raised but bailed out for Nevada. Some of you want to say 'it's not all about guns'? Maybe not, but it is about crime and being able to protect yourself, which you can't legally do in California. When I have to worry about my wife being carjacked out of the mall parking lot; or my kids being shot at a bus-stop; or being robbed at gunpoint outside the county courthouse--it's time too move.

I'm here in Nevada which has very lax gun laws and lots of very conservative ex-Californians who are fighting every effort to turn Nevada in Cal. east or Jersey west. I don't regret the move one bit...

 

[sadlsor]

DISCLAIMER: probably preaching to the proverbial choir, but here goes...

Ditto Bluto (p. 1 this thread)... the question should not be so much, "why do you stay?", perhaps, but rather, "why don't you change what you don't like?"

Bluto summed it up pretty well, and one of my pet peeves is folks who will rant or gripe on internet forums about gun control / gun laws, but can't tell you who their senators are, much less have ever written a letter or God forbid, visit the senators' offices.

Complacency rules, folks. At least for now. Do you not think a couple of tens of millions (20, 30 or so) could put this whole 2A business to rest, at least for a couple more generations? The right of the people, you and I, shall not be infringed. There. Done. It takes votes, it takes effort, it takes more than what most of have done so far. It won't be easy, and it won't be instant, but why do you think gun control has not been hammered in all the Democratic presidential debates or stump speeches this go-round? 'Cuz they get it: by and large, Americans are not supporting more gun control. It's a losing argument, at least during the campaign. Now, if the Dems get elected to the Oval Office, that may change. Few things are certain, and we would all be foolish to take ANYthing for granted. With the possible exception of rising fuel prices...

As a related example: why do we need term limits? For Pete's sake, vote the non-performing slimeball out after his / her first term. Or pass a recall for the sluggards or liars. There's your term limits... it's built in.

 

[ArmedBear]

When I have to worry about my wife being carjacked out of the mall parking lot; or my kids being shot at a bus-stop; or being robbed at gunpoint outside the county courthouse--it's time too move.

Agreed. That's why I live in this part of California, not one where that stuff is common. Like I said, if I lived in one of those places, I'd already be gone.

Ah hell, why bother? People aren't really interested. They just want to rant.

 

[Silvanus]

I like my country and would not move to any other countey right now just because I can carry a gun there. Especially considering the fact that we probably have (one of) the best social security system in the world There's also not much crime in Luxembourg (compared to other countries at least) and VERY few criminals carry guns. I would of course love to be able to carry a handgun for self defence anyway. It's better to carry one and never need it then to need it only once in your life and don't have it. But still, I'm usually not at all afraid of being the victim of a crime when I leave the house in the morning... But then again I (legally) carry a knife and I am pretty fit and know how to handle myself if I'm attacked by some thug (like I said, very few would have a firearm).

And considering the gun laws in general, I'm pretty fortunate to live in Luxembourg. The laws are not very strict, there's almost nothing you can't buy and there are no stupid importation bans or additional costs when you buy SBRs or suppressors.

 

[loneviking]

Agreed. That's why I live in this part of California, not one where that stuff is common. Like I said, if I lived in one of those places, I'd already be gone.

Ah hell, why bother? People aren't really interested. They just want to rant.

Your listed location says 'San Diego', which has a very high crime rate. Especially bad are carjackings and car thefts as the cars are headed for Mexico! I remember a few years back, the police chief of Tijuana was driving a stolen Suburban with Cal. plates for several months before he had too give up the rig.

I like San Diego including the Wild Animal Park, Sea World, San Diego Zoo, the Horton Plaza and the gaslamp district, but I wouldn't call any of it safe. Not by any means!

BTW, I lived in and moved from Redlands, CA which is not typically known as an armpit like San Berdoo or Fontana. But even in Redlands, the crime was far higher than it is here in Northern Nevada. Come over to Carson City some time and take a look around! We're not perfect, but we can carry either open or concealed with a permit, which keeps the crime rate down.

 

[The Tourist]

But let's be fair here. None of us really chose a place based on only one premise. In fact, many people who move based upon a "spouse's new job" often find themselves isolated even though their financial situation might be very much improved.

There are things that enhance a person's move to a new area--or the migrating from a previous area.

Usually it's a long list of pros and cons.

 

[Gary G23]

After being robbed at gunpoint, after going to my wife's cousin funeral after she was raped and murdered, I decided the Blagojevich/Daley/Obama master plan was not for me. I now have the right to carry a gun and defend myself and my family. Looking back, I wish I would have moved sooner.

 

[just carl]

Lots of CA people around here. Saw a few Illinois posts too but usually from a place here that is away from Chicago. Now as to guns here, they are everywhere. No reason to move, just join them, if you can. One nice thing about Il is we have lots of gun shows, coin shows, knife shows, computer shows, dog/cat shows and on and on and on.
Move from all this fantastically wonderful area. Where else can you see guns being used just like in the 20's? And I don't mean in a shooting range. Where else can you go out for a newspaper and never be seen again? Who else has a River running through the city full of corpses? Streets that are falling apart the day after being repaved? 5 to 10 families in one house and most not aware they are there? Move from all this? Why would anyone do that?
The grass is always greener on the other side of the street. True with my grass though.

 

[hrgrisso]

Interesting Responses so far

Armed Bear I wondered what you meant by

But seriously, it is a bit odd that people who won the right to get a CCW permit in their states sometime last year -- and whose laws governing transporting a handgun without a license were or still are more restrictive than California's ever were -- are suddenly wondering how in the world we can possibly live in a "may issue" state without starting an armed revolution.

I would agree with the sentiment about contacting state legislators, congressmen/women and senators. But I think these are the acts of freemen/women not just dealing with guns. We should be involved in all facets of our government. Heck when was the last time you went to the school board meeting or met with the leadership of your kids school? I'm in my kids school on a regular basis and the principle (it's a private school) knows my wife and I well because of it.

I understand the socieo-economic issues related with moving, as I've done it across teh country, north and south multiple times. I hate moving. But I've done with a wife and kids as necessary due to our environment job and other factors. But I've never chosen to move to a location that would force me to give up most freedoms, and yes many related to guns. I've lived in VT, Idaho and Arizona. I tried California when I was young and dumb and thankfully got out FAST!

I'm not trying to call anyone out with this so those of you on the defensive please, don't take it personally. Related to staying and making changes ore moving I do write my senators, and congressmen. I campaign each season for the candidates that closest reflect my beliefs. I vote and encourage and try and educate others to do the same.

As I mentioned early and has been said by others, it's not all about guns but they make a great litmus test. I'm also concerned by the proliferation and abuse of HOA's in Arizona. The majority of who are so upset by a breed of dog. By where we four wheel drive. So the question is not just about guns but they are a major factor in them.


So I revisit the question, what is the breaking point for you?

 

[Noxx]

Complacency, cowardice, and shamelessness.

Oooooooookay.....


In my case, while there are areas I have lived in my life that I prefer over California, the wife and I are pretty much cemented here for the next twenty to twenty five years. My wife works for a huge HMO. She loves her job, and the company, enjoys union pay, good benefits, and intends to be with the company until retirement. In uncertain financial times ahead, people will continue to become ill, and break bones, and her job is as safe as anyones can be.

I work at Disneyland, for crying out loud. Even better, I work at a fairly indisposable, understaffed position at Disneyland. I enjoy union pay, good benefits, and intend to be with the company until retirement. Should my company go under, there will probably bigger things to worry about going on in America.

In short, it's not very common for people our age (36 and 31 respectively) to be able to say "we're happy where we are at and intend to spend another twenty years with our employers. We might gripe, everyone likes to gripe, but fact is, it really doesn't get much better than we have it, in terms of overall security.

The weather's nice, the housing is overpriced, no one can drive in the damn rain, and some of the 2A restrictions here are pretty onerous, but not (yet) crippling to my sense of safety and well being. That's California. I have a good job that I enjoy that I know with certainty will provide for myself and my family until I retire or die, and that to me is priority number one.

 

[Eyesac]

I was born in Northern CA and moved to NV for a bunch of reasons. One big one was guns, but it wasn't everything. I got married and wanted to start a family and couldn't buy a house because of outrageous home prices. I live in Reno now and w/ most of my family in the Sac and Bay area, we all see each other pretty often still. I might as well add, I think it was one of the best decisions of my life! Someone said to me right after I moved up here: "welcome to the free world"

 

[CountGlockula]

How can you leave this?



And this...yes this is CA.

 

[SuperNaut]

How can you leave this?

This:







Oh, and this:

 

[matt87]

I'll not beat around the bush here: my country sucks in many ways. Be it gun laws, self defense laws, knife laws, big government, excessive tax etc., there are many reasons why I should up sticks and move. That said, there are many reasons I should stay. I have family in this country; I have two brothers 16 and 19 years my junior. It's bad enough I live 5 hours away from them now, imagine if I lived halfway across the world -- how much of a relationship would we have? I wouldn't move without my girlfriend either, and she is unwilling to move for now. I'm halfway through earning my bachelor's degree and want to continue at the uni, taking a master's degree in a specialised subject offered at very few universities in the world. Plus of course there are the legalities and difficulties of moving to the US and staying there legally.

Of course, I can foresee things getting very bad in this country in the next few years. Property prices are very high at the moment. So much so in fact that most people of my age (20) are coming to terms with the fact that they will possibly never own a house. Fuel prices are even higher than their previous high level. You think $4/gallon is bad? It's over £5/gallon for us. Road (car) tax is going up. Car insurance is very high. Almost everything is taxed to a high or very high level, and that gets frittered away on hairbrained schemes and the government's pet freedom-tramping ideas.

Don't get me wrong though, I don't feel like I'm trapped here as such. There are certain things I'm not sure I would like to be wihtout. For instance, I'm a devout atheist and don't want to get discriminated against because of this, so most US states seem... inappropriate. I'm a true liberal (think, Founding Fathers) and am for gay marriage, civil partnership or whatever you want to call it. Many other reasons.

The long and the short of it is that there are many reasons I should stay, many reasons I should go. However, guns are not my life, no matter that I feel very strongly about RKBA and other civil liberty issues. The reasons I have for leaving do not currently outweigh those for staying. There is nothing wrong with fighting fom behind enemy lines; the UK can be fixed, it'll just take a little while. Besides, if we keep retreating from freedom-trampers, where will we be in a few generations' time? Even if Heller goes the right way, if states gradually become anti-gun and pro-gun people retreat making Aaska or Arizona or Vermont their last bastion of freedom-loving, armed, polite America, the rest of the states could hold a constitutional conference and pass and repeal/countermand the second amendment faster than you can say 'shoulder thing that goes up'.

 

[GRIZ22]

You cannot always optimize everything.
You can add NJ to the list of NY and CA...


Joe Cool has it right and I agree with all his points. NJ is a bad place to be for lot of reasons but with:

90 minutes to NY or Philadelphia for me. Either place has more cultural, educational, and entertainment offerings than several gun friendly states combined. 10 minutes to the beach (not much coastline in AZ or MT) and 90-120 minutes to the mountains. Where I lived in AZ I had to drive 3 hours for a supermarket. Yes I know that's not all of AZ (would pick Sierra Vista if I were moving there.

Nearly zero crime where I live in NJ. Close to one of the towns with one of the 10 lowest crime rates in the country.

FIL and MIL in their 90s and close to not being able to take care of themselves. Can't afford to move where they live and they refuse to move closer to those that can care for them.

Daughter and SIL own a very good business which is one they can't pick up and move.

As much as I support RKBA and the 2A if you move based only on gun issues isn't very smart as far as I'm concerned.

The way things are going in NJ the state will soon implode and come to their senses.

 

[RP88]

luckily, most states are actually passing more pro-gun laws as CA, NY, Chitown, etc. are doing the opposite. Every other state that hasnt passed any pro-gun legislation recently has already been very liberal and is now status quo on their pro-gun positions. As long as more and more states pass pre-emptive or expanding laws on the right to own and bear, then it may get to the point where California, Chicago, etc. are the last bastions of hope for the anti-gunners.

 

[The Highlander]

Moving away would be surrendering. If everyone left, it would be that much easier to pass anti-gun legistlation. Also leaving behind family, friends, a job, etc. over gun laws is a bit silly.

Of course I don't deal with that kind of situation, (Florida has favorable gun laws) so that situation really isn't all that relevant to me personally.

 

[Prince Yamato]

You know, aside from the gun laws, California and NYS are pretty nice places. I hope Heller really roles our way, because if it does, I may just look into moving to NYC.

 

[ColinthePilot]

It's just not that easy.

Its not that hard either. I'm getting ready to make my 3rd residence in just over a year. inside 2 years I will have lived in 4 cities in 3 different states. Sure its not easy, but I'm far from my family, picking up all my non furniture and driving it halfway across the country, and there are many other military folks around here that can tell you, after a few moves, its not impossible. Sure I have to find a house, learn my way around, and do everything that anyone else would, except maybe finding a new job. When I get out or retire, I'll have the choice of staying put near my last duty station or making one last move. If my last station is in Maryland, DC, Illinois, California, or any other anti-gun state, I'll be moving to one that is shall-issue with castle doctrine. (If any of those exist at that time)

 

[Indifferent]

My Wife.

Otherwise I would be in a whole new land.

 

[plexreticle]

Guns are a hobby for many people. They can take it or leave it. Jobs and extended family network is more important to most people than owning guns.

 

[rdoggsilva]

14 years ago the wife and I packed up and left California for Utah and never looked back. My Kids live in different states, but two are still in Calif. At the time we moved we only had one boy at home the other four were already gone. No it was not easy to leave family and friends but the three of us are glad we did.

 

[JCF]

Your listed location says 'San Diego', which has a very high crime rate.

San Diego's murder rate is approximately equivalent to that of Henderson, NV.

It is lower than that of Reno, lower than Boulder City, lower than Las Vegas, lower than N. Las Vegas, lower than Mesquite, and slightly higher than Sparks.

 

[Vegaslaith]

Why Stay?

I'm actually grappling with this question right now. I hated high school and moved to Nevada from CA. said screw it, why not? I worked my ass off to exercise my 2A rights but, not much else came of it really. It really shouldn't be the deciding factor necessarily. Its very important to me, sure. But in the long run there are other things to worry about like college. I'll probably just finish school in CA but move back to Nevada after--unless something miraculous happens in the next 6 months.

 

[yokel]

C'mon, Folks, Get With the Program

Guns are a hobby for many people. They can take it or leave it.

The Second Amendment was NOT put into the Constitution by the Founders merely to allow us a fun, interesting and educational hobby.

If that is all the right to keep and bear arms really amounts to in the end as far as you're concerned, then please consider taking up stamp or coin collecting along with sports cards or comic books as an alternative.