noskilz
Member
Now that's some serious plinking you've got planned. Happy shooting!
Why the continuing ammo shortage?
- Thread starter BruM
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Now that's some serious plinking you've got planned. Happy shooting!
woodsoup
Member
I don't know where you get your information, but according to ATK's most recent annual report, "ALL of ATK’s segments derive the majority of their sales from contracts with, and prime contractors to, the U.S. Government. ATK’s U.S. Government sales, including sales to U.S. Government prime contractors, during the last three fiscal years were as follows:
Fiscal U.S. Government Sales Percent of sales
2009 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $3,486,456 76%
2008 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,257,000 78%
2007 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,817,000 79%"
ATK sells more than small arms to the Military. The Annual reports don't break their profits by type of munition or weapons system sold.
Fiscal U.S. Government Sales Percent of sales
2009 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $3,486,456 76%
2008 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,257,000 78%
2007 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,817,000 79%"
ATK sells more than small arms to the Military. The Annual reports don't break their profits by type of munition or weapons system sold.
sfc_mark
Member
ATK - Alliant Techsystems - is much more than the Olin division, which itself makes more than just WW ammo. ATK is also into "armament systems" and space systems which tend to be a little more expensive than 5.56 and 7.62 ammo.
FWIW, I might not argue numbers in the ammunition industry with a guy who actually owns an ammunition manufacturing company - he just might know what he's talking about.
lonewolf2810
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I have seen a lot of folks saying the local wally world has plenty of 22lr and such. All I want to know is where is this WW at as the ones in my area NC don't any 22lrs in bricks just a few in 100pk. I can get 40sw no problem but as for 9mm you can't get it. The best thing I have done is buy a G27 (40cal) so I at least can find ammo for it.
I have also had problems with the wal-mart stores around here trying to place limits on how many boxes of ammo you can purchase (6 boxes per day per customer). They have tried to say after 10pm they stop selling ammo (not true) as all you have to do is get a manager to open the case to sell it. If you have this problem just call 1-800-WAL-MART let them know the situation and problem solved.
Just thought I would let folks know you can get things done if you aren't scared to follow up.
I have also had problems with the wal-mart stores around here trying to place limits on how many boxes of ammo you can purchase (6 boxes per day per customer). They have tried to say after 10pm they stop selling ammo (not true) as all you have to do is get a manager to open the case to sell it. If you have this problem just call 1-800-WAL-MART let them know the situation and problem solved.
Just thought I would let folks know you can get things done if you aren't scared to follow up.
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LeonCarr
Member
The Wal-Mart around the corner from my house is still out of everything, and the local Cabela's is still way short of primers (They had 1000 CCI Small Rifle and 500 CCI Small Rifle Magnum primers the last time I was there, nothing else).
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
scottaschultz
Member
Obviously you know NOTHING about ATK! Olin Corporation and ATK are two completely separate companies. Olin is NOT a division of ATK!
I am not "arguing" numbers with anybody. The figures I used are directly from ATK. I did not just pull them out of my ass!
Of the 24% that is not from government contracts, sales to law enforcement agencies as well as the FBI and Dept. of Homeland Security are included in this along with the retail or "sporting goods" sales.
Scott
freakshow10mm
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And if I sold missiles that cost $100,000 to a few million each, I could come out with big numbers too. Since the discussion is about small arms ammunition, how about we keep the figures to that instead of padding them with other items.
oneounceload
member
Olin and ATK are not related to each other. ATK, (parent of Federal, among others), is a different company
sfc_mark
Member
I'll concede that the article I found stating that ATK had "acquired Olin's Ordnance Division and Physics International Company" is a bit dated. I'm not emotionally invested in this, so I won't bother to research their current relationship, if any.
As freakshow pointed out, ATK's sales of missile systems have no bearing on their ammunition sales. Stating that 75% of their total corporate sales come from government contracts (apples) does not support your contention that government ammunition sales dwarf civilian sales (oranges).
As I implied, a member who actually happens to be in the ammunition manufacturing industry just might have some idea of what the annual production numbers in his industry are. Since the numbers you pulled "directly from ATK" don't apply to the percentage of income derived from small arms ammunition sales, they don't really apply to the discussion at hand.
WhoKnowsWho
Member
The ammo disappears very quickly from the Wal-Marts I have found it at. On one day, a local store with a two box limit had over 20 boxes of 9 and 10 boxes of 22lr and 15 boxes of 40. Less than 12 hours later when I went back in the morning, it was all gone. Well, they had 22 short and 25 ACP.
My local WalMart in Southwest burbs of Chicago finally has the 500 count boxes of .22LR, a small supply of .40S&W, and a smattering of rifle offerings. (sorry, didn't pay attention to what was there) They haven't had any decent supplies of .45acp or .38spec in at least a year. The RARE box of .45acp has showed up at twice the price of pre-Obama times. The days of $20-23 boxes of 100 Winchester white box .45acp in 230gr. FMJ are LONG gone. They did exist maybe a year or so ago.
unspellable
Member
2009 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $3,486,456 76%
2008 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,257,000 78%
2007 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,817,000 79%"
I don't know what these numbers are supposed to mean, but the stuff we are getting from ATK probably runs to these kind of numbers per SINGLE UNIT!
2008 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,257,000 78%
2007 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,817,000 79%"
I don't know what these numbers are supposed to mean, but the stuff we are getting from ATK probably runs to these kind of numbers per SINGLE UNIT!
mustang_steve
Member
Well, I went into wally world yesterday and found not just shotgun shells (normal), but a massive stock of .22lr, .223, a few boxes of .25 and a modest stock of .40 ammuntion.
It seeme like things are improving.
It seeme like things are improving.
U-235
Member
It's getting better here in Minneapolis. Wal Mart has just about everything but .45 and .380. Prior to that the only pistol ammo you could find was .357 SIG.
mustang_steve
Member
Downside here is the ammo prices at wal-mart is now $16 for 50rds of 9mm fmj. This has me less than amused.
Attended a large (2000 table) gun show this weekend and you'd never know there had been an ammunition shortage. There was ammo for sale by numerous vendors in abundance in most calibers except .380 and at decent prices. I snagged some Brown Bear 9X18 for $8/box, for example. Whilst I was there it didn't seem like sales were all that brisk which leads me to think the market may finally be getting saturated.
huh, we must live in the same area of NClonewolf2810 said:
i'm around gastonia, about 7 of them within about 20 miles of me, and .40 is the only handgun ammo i ever see in... other than .44. i also bought a .40 with no other reason than having something to shoot. a couple of them around here have started getting the winchester 333 round boxes, and some keep cci stingers occasionally. i was at the wal-mart in cherryville yesterday and they had 2 100 round boxes of .40, and 5 or 6 50 round boxes, but no other handgun ammo.I think a lot of the gun stores are also to blame,jacking up the prices for no reason.in january i went to one shop that had remington std 22lr ammo for 5.99 for 100 rounds. i took a sharpie & made a dot on some of the labels. i went back over this summer & the price was now 9.99 for 100, & my dots were still on those labels.now these pricks had already bought it way back when so why did it almost double. its not like they sold out & had to rebuy at a higher price. gas stations do the same thing. they filled their tank at a certain price,why should it go up before that tank is empty ? just to artificially spike up the price to rob us.i saw another gun store that has cases & cases of 223,9mm,7.62x39,i mean enough cases to fill a large tool shed.& this is just 1 store.so wheres the shortage ?
ma deuce
member
You can still find ammo at wal marts, you just have to go on stocking nights and get it before anyone else does, Cheaper than dirt also has plenty of ammo.
^ as far as shopping online, i prefer natchezss.com and tds-us.com to cheaper than dirt. not sure if it has changed now, but for a while they started gouging on their ammo prices compared to others. i use natchezss for fmj, and tds for jhp... they have gold dots, ranger talons, and hst 50 round boxes for about the price most places have 20 round boxes... around mid twenties.
JustinL
Member
When I was last home (mid-October) only .380 was hard to find. Between January and October the ammo situation improved dramatically to my naked eye and I would imagine it has only continued to improve since then.
hotshotshoting
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let me ask you this oh wise master of business....
if a store cannot purchase the ammo to replace the sold ammo for the price they were selling at originally how would that be in the best interest of the business to sell themselves out of business?
my business has a % of markup based on how much we can purchase inventory for...
as of January the prices from the distributors, and manufacturers has gone up another 60% how is it the middle mans fault ?
ps if the prices from the distributors and manufacturers had not risen at all i would understand your argument... but we are having it just as rough as you are... now we have to explain to the customer why prices are so outrageous....
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