Why you don't want Concealed Carry at Work

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One reason why I've gravitated toward armed security as a line of work is to avoid the whole issue of asking permission from my employer. I currently work on a small military base where I am only one of many armed men.

After the Ford Hood incident there was a lot of discussion about arming more of us than just the civilian security guys and Security Forces. Personally, I thought arming the pilots was a good idea, they work in different buildings all over campus so they'd make a nice addition to overall security and response time. Of course, being trusted to operate a multi-million dollar aircraft somehow doesn't translate to being trusted with an M9 and 30 rounds. Go figure.
 
Has anyone here actually seen an insurance policy for a company that had a clause in it reffering to concealed carry by employees? I suspect it is just an excuse from the management.
"Sorry our insurance company doesn't allow you to CCW here"
"Show me"
 
Answerguy, it's more of an issue if the company overtly allows it, or doesn't discourage it, and the insurance company gets wind, the premiums will go up.

It doesn't mean it's already spelled out in the policy. Think of it like this...

You have a 4 cylinder black car from the 80's with airbags, seatbelts etc. Your insurance policy is $100.00 a month.

Now, you cram a 8 cylinder in there, paint it red, take out the airbags...well, it's the same frame and same make/model, but do you think your insurance company's going to keep the same rate for you, or do you think it's going to go up? Either way, a safe drivers a safe driver...even if you've never had a ticket or accident, the insurance company will perceive you as a higher risk, and thus most likely increase your premium.

The store's the car, the person carrying is that larger engine, once again, you might not be an ACTUAL risk, but you're perceived as one financially.
 
In both cases, the management would pretend to not know, and no one would tell the insurance company, and life would be good.
 
Until there IS an incident...

Now say a robber comes in with a gun, an employee draws and ends the threat. The insurance companies going to catch wind, don't you think? Now they'll find out management allowed it, they'll find SOME clause, as I'm sure any major contract like that will have PLENTY of them somehow able to by linked to this, and the insurance company will drop the store. Other insurance companies will know about the companies policy, and will either directly provide for it in the new contract as a vastly higher rate, or by prohibiting it. This either way provides for a LOT of trouble for the company. It also will lead to a lot of problems if the policy doesn't come from corporate, and most likely a LOT of people out of work.

Like it or not, but no larger store is going to allow it on any level, it just isn't worth it to them, the cost/risk is too high compared to the perceived gain of the act.
 
Everyone is going under the assumption that the insurance companies have clauses or will add clauses about concealed carry. I would like to know of proof that they do.
 
Until there IS an incident...

Now say a robber comes in with a gun, an employee draws and ends the threat. The insurance companies going to catch wind, don't you think? Now they'll find out management allowed it, they'll find SOME clause, as I'm sure any major contract like that will have PLENTY of them somehow able to by linked to this, and the insurance company will drop the store. Other insurance companies will know about the companies policy, and will either directly provide for it in the new contract as a vastly higher rate, or by prohibiting it. This either way provides for a LOT of trouble for the company. It also will lead to a lot of problems if the policy doesn't come from corporate, and most likely a LOT of people out of work.

Like it or not, but no larger store is going to allow it on any level, it just isn't worth it to them, the cost/risk is too high compared to the perceived gain of the act.
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It's called plausible deniability. Oh, we didn't know Joe had a gun, but, man, are we glad he did. Anyone who thinks that employees should be defenseless and at risk of being massacred to save some insurance money is morally bankrupt.
 
Except, once again, you get back to it becoming something the insurance company will prohibit. Like it or not, as far as a larger company is concerned, the employees are just a number, not a person for the most part. If you risk costing that company more than some other person they can replace you with, then you'll be replaced.

I don't LIKE that, and I don't AGREE that it should be that way, trust me I'd love to be able to carry on the job, but if I'm honest about it, short of working security, or at a gun shop, I'm not going to hold my breath.
 
EddieNFL said:
I'm subjected to an intensive background investigation over the course of several months costing tens of thousands of dollars and allowed access to classified weapons, but I can't be trusted with a handgun. Hmmmmmmmmm
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Yeah, I have a clearance too, albeit a low-level one. Even the military is unreasonable regarding OC or CC. Had only 10 percent of those "trained" soldiers been armed during the Ft Hood incident the outcome wouldn't have been "nearly" so tragic... and there would probably be no costly trial.
 
#1--obey the law,when it is a just law,if it is not,work to change it. #2--carry if you can,if not---learn how the laws in your state defines concealed.ACT ACCORDINGLY
 
#1--obey the law,when it is a just law,if it is not,work to change it. #2--carry if you can,if not---learn how the laws in your state defines concealed.ACT ACCORDINGLY
 
+1 NFL
I am forutnate enough to work at a company now where most of us, inlcuding the owners, are right-wing NRA supporters, and most of us carry all of the time.

There have been times in the past when I have worked places where carrying was not allowed, or where guns on company property was not allowed. I always figured that if I got caught, I would get fired, and probably that would be all. I weighed that against what could happen if I was unarmed and someone attacked me.

I never show my CCW to anyone, no one knows I have it, and therefore don't realize they need to tell me to leave it at home.

I think it is a grey area with property rights vs. 2A rights; but I decided that their right to disallow guns was less than my right not to be assaulted.
 
I think the majority of the problem is the fact that insurance company execs, coroporate management, and a large percent of the population at large assumes that a firearm is a time-bomb, just waiting to go off and hurt someone. They equate guns with death and destruction. Most "good guys" that carry guns never draw, never fire, and dont enter into the gun violence statistics. People assume that if you are carrying a gun you intend to use it, and they don't want gunfire in their place of business. I think most people who carry a gun never intend to use it, at least they hope they don't ever have to. It's all a matter of perspective.

There is a sign at my local gun dealer that reads: "Attention robbers, any or all of our customers and employees may be armed at any time; good luck." That to me is a better image to show bad guys than "Attention: no weapons allowed in here by anyone, especially employees."
 
However.. Currently, my office is guarded, by 4 Aug carrying guard members, 1 truck mounted M60, 6 elevated bunkers with M60's, and a LLR 81 launcher. I am not too worried about CCW. (I am not military)
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You don't happen to hunt monsters for bounties do you?
 
Does a complicated gun make one more interesting? Or in someway more intelligent?
Couldn't help seeing your little saying on your post, referring to Glocks. Or is it a compliment?We must have a lot of simple minded members.
 
It's very simple. Exempt the company from all civil liability and prevent the insurance company from changing the rates on such companies. The insurance companies are heavily regulated already; this is not a big leap.
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So you're advocating that some folks give up their civil rights by exempting the company, and you also advocate gov't interference in private business by making laws that will cost a company money without recourse to get compensation?

The Soviets used that method for years and in the long run, it didn't work out too well for them
 
Oneounceload, you make a point, but your point points to the employer staying off the subject, and letting his employees take the responsibility for protecting themselves. My point is, if the employer does not want to accept responsibility or cost for protection and or defense of their their employees, then stand out of the way, and let the responsibility and practice defer to any employee who feels the need to carry at work. Who bears the liability if an employer denies employees the right and means to self defense, then fails to provide protection, and employees are attacked on the job? Can they make their employees sheep for the slaughter, and think they are off the hook? I often wonder the same about "school zones"....................
 
As others have said, what an employer doesn't know can't hurt him. As long as you're not breaking the law, I think you should carry if you are so inclined. Obviously, you have to consider if losing your job in case your CC is discovered is worth it.
 
"Sorry our insurance company doesn't allow you to CCW here"
"Show me"
Click to expand...

They don't have to. Companies have policies that all workers must abide by. Any employees who do not see it that way should look elsewhere for employment. Go against the policy anyways, especially any gun policy, get caught CCW on the job, guaranteed a police escort off company property. Your job will be terminated immediately.

I don't agree with some company policies but that's just how it is. I went to them looking to get hired, they didn't come looking for me. Therefore, I must accept their terms as a condition of my employment.
 
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Most companies don't care about their employees.

You have to decide how important your life is to your family. Some things can be replaced and some can't. Most companies (especially upper management) don't even follow their own junk policy books. Their policy books are used when they find convenient.

I'd say make the decision on if you are breaking 'policy' and not breaking the law. I have no problem with folks who are lawfully carrying a firearm at work. I carry my handgun all the time to meetings, carrying deposits, and even keep the handgun by my desk. The bossman (myself!) doesn't mind. You would be surprised at the number of self employed/small business people who carry handguns for protection.
 
Let's put it another way:

My life is worth more than their insurance premiums.

The security at my office consists of a badge entry door. If that door is pushed for 30 seconds, it will open (the sign says so).
 
I work in a high-rise with badge-secured doors. If someone went crazy, there would indeed be plenty of targets humans. No incidents in the area. I'd get immediately fired if I were discovered carrying. Since too many people rely on me, I will not carry at work. I do have a window view so hopefully, I'll be the last to be attacked. It may give me time to bolt down the stairwell. Now, a Kevlar vest...would that look odd at work? :)
 
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