Why you should stay well away from a knife...

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Those pictures are why you should remember, slashing is for muscles and tendons, stabing is for organs. They are much less effective when switched.

Also FYI: I heard from a police knife-fighting instructor, whose judgement I trust, that attacking any part of the body that covers organs with a knife can be rulled attempted murder reguardless of the circumstances.
 
Thanks for those pics. They're certainly an eye opener.

Any info on what kind of knife was used to do that? And how'd the poor fella's hands and arms look after fending off that kind of attack?
 
Headless Thompson Gunner said:
Thanks for those pics. They're certainly an eye opener.

Any info on what kind of knife was used to do that? And how'd the poor fella's hands and arms look after fending off that kind of attack?
 
Thefabulousfink said:
Those pictures are why you should remember, slashing is for muscles and tendons, stabing is for organs. They are much less effective when switched.

Also FYI: I heard from a police knife-fighting instructor, whose judgement I trust, that attacking any part of the body that covers organs with a knife can be rulled attempted murder reguardless of the circumstances.
 
Knife Fight

From the look of the wound's it may have been someone with the skill of knife fighting.That in itself will put this person away for attempted murder.

This looks like a straight razor and or a utility knife for ripping as oposed to a stab and kill to a vital area?

He could have been trained by the Military and in some states the purp could get 10 to life even if he did not kill.I see a lot a fatty tisue so they were dancing around but the knifer new what he was doing!

Just and assumption on my part.A man that is trained with a knife may in fact be more deadly than one with a gun? Remember the old saying many of a gun fight fought at 7ft to 10 ft have been lost with people that have not enough training and just by the pull down and to the right depending on if one is right or left handed and the situation is far from the ordernary.
In my off time I try not to compromise myself or others by a visit to the range at least once a week to see if I have developed any bad habits!
I learned a long time ago you never give up in a gun fight or knife fight. Never as you could be another statistic as a Cop or Civi.
New member. I am sorry if I ran my vocals off!
"
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND THE PEOPLE THAT PROTECT HER."
Watch out for one another.Something a lot of people do not have in their vocab.Or how do i treat others?
Regards
 
SR711970, Welcome to the club.

Any defensive wounds? I can't see anything on arms or hands so that comes to mind. It's also interesting that the majority of the wounds are horizontal (the exception being the one on starting near the right shoulder on the back) instead of diagonal. And most of them are very high on the torso. I wonder if the victim was on the ground when most of these were done?
 
Whoever made those wounds was a moron knowing NOTHING of real blade arts.

Look at the cuts on the back in particular: somebody had a lot of access but didn't reach around for the throat. The chest wounds are similar.

Somebody who knew what they were doing with a small knife would not only have picked better targets (leg and arm tendons/arteries, throat, etc) they'd have maintained contact between knife and victim and you'd then see curved cuts all over the place, or one BIG continuous curve letting the victim put a lot of the cutting force into it as he squirmed.

No, this was wild slashing and if in prison, God only knows what the blade was. Boxcutter is still remotely possible but unlikely, more probably home-brew of some sort...although the cuts look pretty damn clean for something sharpened on concrete, I find that kinda puzzling. *Maybe* something made out of multiple recycled safety razor blades in a funky "holder" or ???

Scalpel stolen from the medical wing? Very odd if that's a prison wound.
 
The Romans used the short "Spanish sword" precisely because stabbing wounds were more likely to be fatal than big, dramatic slashes.

I remember reading a book about ancient weapons and tactics and a Roman officer doing a "study" of battlefield wounds, and commenting that while big slashes produced dramatic-looking wounds, most slash victims could actually recover.

But a stab in the belly as small as only two inches deep could easily be quickly fatal.

hillbilly
 
Tueller correction; parry, riposte

I stand corrected on the distance (but then people always say "Oh that Perpster, give him a foot and he'll take a yard...;-)

However, that being said, think about this. If 21 feet can be covered by an edge wielding assailant in 1.5 seconds, then it only takes 4.5 seconds for him/her to cover 21 yards. If you're caught by surprise and stealth, or you are distracted (by a 3rd person or actions/screaming/flashlight etc of the assailant), will you have time to OODA within that 4.5 seconds AND put round(s) on target? AND, even if you do, will that stop the assailant? Even a dead-on-his-feet attacker can still kill or seriously wound you just from momentum alone. The FBI shootout is a prime example (though that didn't involve edged weapons).

Here's an interesting quote from http://www.instantknowledgenews.com/gunsalone.htm:

"Fact: Under 21 feet a knife will win every time against an untrained shooter. Many people refuse to believe this until they see an actual demonstration. Time after time, many instructors in the law enforcement community demonstrate the “Tueller” drill. They watch as the faces of our officers show concern and fear as their myth of “the gun as a superior weapon” is demolished The "Tueller" drill is a simple demonstration where a knife-wielding attacker covers the 21 feet and cuts the officer's throat with a training blade while the officer fumbles with their gun.

Knives are actually one of the biggest threats to officers. Knives are a dangerous weapon that can be employed at point of contact, creating massive permanent wound cavities, causing mechanical and biological trauma with excessive blood loss leading to shock and death. 10% of all officers who are shot in the line of duty die whereas 30% of all officers attacked with a bladed weapon die[3].

These facts become truly terrifying when we also consider that the majority of all self-defense shootings occur under 10 feet, which is well within the kill zone range of bladed weapons. Dealing with bladed weapons is actually an extremely important training aspect for Law Enforcement Instructors. We must constantly train ourselves and our officers on the latest techniques and procedures so we can defeat the knife-wielding suspect while on duty. Most knife attacks against officers occur either during the interview process within the personal space or during an attempt at arrest."


Guns have to pointed at the target and kept in alignment during firing to hit the target. Edged weapons can be completely hidden until the moment they strike, they can be aimed in any direction as the wrist/arm/shoulder of the attacker can instantly change its direction and not lose effectiveness. Think of a bullet as a killing zone of one degree of arc. It is a ray extending out from the shooter through that one degree. If the target is not in that one degree when the bullet passes the target's plane you have a miss. A slashing edge occupies a killing zone of approximately 180 degrees. There is a much higher probability, at closer ranges, of connecting with the target.

While it has been noted in this thread that slashing is not as fatal as stabbing, it is also true that slashing in certain places on the body can completely sever the vicitm's control of his/her arms. This can make fighting back or firing rather difficult.

Let's also not forget the pyschological impact being slashed or stabbed can have, which can directly effect survivability of the attack.

Anyway, I'm rambling.
 
If this was a prison attack (and the tat sure looks like a prison tat), it's possible it was not intended to be fatal. Could be punishment or a warning from fellow prisoners.
 
As far as slashing goes, I always thought that a nice long filleting knife would work wonders against a person. A slash along the waistline or a little higher with a thin, sharp blade would slice through the abdominal muscles and fascia and allow the small intestine to uncoil and flop right out of the guy.

Stabbing might be the more practical way to go, but if you cared enough, slashing can be a good technique as well.
 
hso makes a keen observation: there don't appear to be any defensive wounds. If that is the case, either the guy froze or he was ambushed. Chest-thumping about guns won't help you out if you freeze up or get ambushed.

Judging from the wounds, it looks like a boxcutter, LaGriffe, or something of that sort. The reason why is that the wounds seem to start deep and end deep. Starting/ending deep could be evidence that the blade was inside of him when it started moving or when it stopped. That's just my amateur opinion anyway...

Also, slashing or stabbing < stabbing then cutting when it comes to smaller blades like knives.
 
Saw the videos on michealsavage.com. :what:

I have a new hate for the enemy.

I'm shoudnt have clicked that.

I'm trying not to be afraid of them, thats what they want, but its hard.
 
Man that sucks. It's going to take a lot of stitches and he will be scarred for life on most of these. Actually, compared to some medical videos I have seen this is not too bad. And I agree with Jim, people should try to not get too mortified by these sorts of things to not be too shocked by them. It's all bad, but it reinforces the understanding of what can happen.

Yes the Tueller Drill is something all people should know about. For most people in crowded situations or otherwise tight areas in times of fighting or assault, knives should always be a concern. Someone with a knife out will get you before you can draw your firearm.
 
hso makes a keen observation: there don't appear to be any defensive wounds. If that is the case, either the guy froze or he was ambushed. Chest-thumping about guns won't help you out if you freeze up or get ambushed.

It looks like the guy has a head wound, in the back of his head. It's possible he was knocked out and then cut up.
 
RyanM said:
It looks like the guy has a head wound, in the back of his head. It's possible he was knocked out and then cut up.

You could be correct or it could be another slash.
 
Edmond said:
How is he still alive?

Those aren't all that bad--though that head wound you only see a bit of might be. My grandfather's torso looked like that after he fell off the roof of his house and through a window he was trying to rig below. Big flap of skin hanging off of his back exposing red meat, massive lacerations all over. But so long as nothing penetrates and the skin doesn't die or become infected, they can patch you up surprisingly easily. It's the smaller, deeper wounds that kill you. Even with modern medicine, anything that gets into the central body cavity will trigger a long list of additional concerns and potentially lethal side effects. Look at Cheney's hunting budy and the impact that wee little bit of shot that penetrated is having.

I can't beat the Tueller drill very easily. But my walking buddy can. He's been trained to break the arms of an attacker.

stick4.jpg
 
Edmond said:
What defense does an officers body armor give against a knife?

From stabbing? Very little, surprisingly enough. Bullets may be moving quickly, but they're generally not sharp to the same degree as a knife. A knife would simply cut the fibers.

As for slashing, I don't know. I suspect Kevlar would be similar to most fabrics in its cut-resistant properties.

They do make stab-resistant vests, but I'm not sure how effective they are or what they're made out of.
 
Superficial or not, that must hurt

There are a few very effective ways to separate an attacker from his knife from the martial arts point of view. However, you must be in close and definitely "part" of the fray to get it away from said attacker. The ones that employ breaking arms are martial arts like Kenpo, probably one of the truest and effective defensive fighting forms there is. Every attack is countered and returned with an attack. It does not just keep your attacker off you or merely deflect his energy away from you, but puts you back into a position to maim said attacker to stop the incident quickly. Much like the techniques used by Seagal in his movies. Ever notice how everyone that attacks him is usually licking their wounds or dead, no ridiculous punches or kicks that send the opponent 20 feet backwards, that just does not happen in real life. A well timed hip or shoulder throw is about as far away as the opponent gets, then you'd be pouncing on the guy almost before he hits the ground if executed properly. Actually, if the person has that much momentum in kenpo, we were taught to step into and use it against the assailant analogous to a clothesline or step in and kick or knee the attack in progress. I know it's hollywood, but the techniques Seagall employs are effective, and the style is not for show, it's for keeps.

I have to say that I prefer the....pity the guy who brings a knife to a gun fight scenario. However, being I don't carry, I would either boogie away from this lunatic, or step right in and use the techniques I was trained on for hand to hand combat. I'd probably just run or start looking for some defensive object to bludgeon or throw at the wildman. I do not think I would honestly be brave or courageous enough to confront a knife wielding attacker unless absolutely cornered. Then, all bets are off and I hope to hell I could execute the techniques I learned when taking martial arts years ago. The best thing I can see from these images from a martial arts point of view was that the attacker was swinging wildly with the knife, getting it along way away from his body. This type of attack offers the best chances of being stopped with martial arts techniques. Again, could I do them, probably not because I'd be outta there, and quick.

jeepmor
 
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