Why you should stay well away from a knife...
- Thread starter Preacherman
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Thanks for the pictures, they are brutal.
Around the age of 12 I was attacked with a knife coming out the rear exit of a movie theater, near midnight, into the alleys behind a strip mall. Someone about my size and age jumped out and demanded my wallet. Young punk that I was, I pulled out my own knife (short double edged bootknife) and not knowing what else to do after that, I took a slash to my left thigh. The guy was close enough to run it through my stomach so he probably had never used a knife before either.....
Anyhow, the cut to my leg was quite long but not extremely deep. It went through my jeans and opened up to my subcutaneous fat layer, and bled profusely on my walk home. The scar is impressive but the wound was superficial in retrospect, although I never showed my parents or got medical attention. It hurt like hell and took months to heal right
because it kept tearing open.
Seeing that my state denies the right to carry a firearm I have continued to carry a knife for self defense, even though it's very small and utilitarian (Spydercard). I only mention this because my Spydercard is only capable of wounds like those, and it's a very poor choice for a fighting weapon. I am a cook and have taken swipes at large meat roasts to see the wounding potential of my knife and they are very similar in depth to the cuts in those pictures.
I have carried the Spydercard for nearly 5 years and previously used it to open dozens of shipping boxes a day.... but a few weeks ago I was warned by a supervisor that using it as such could get me in serious trouble for brandishing a concealed weapon.
Now..... considering that everyone in the kitchen has knives in their hands, knives in their pockets, knives in the drawers, and rows of knives on every wall...... why is anyone concerned about a non-ballistic 2" folding knife inside my pocket?
Around the age of 12 I was attacked with a knife coming out the rear exit of a movie theater, near midnight, into the alleys behind a strip mall. Someone about my size and age jumped out and demanded my wallet. Young punk that I was, I pulled out my own knife (short double edged bootknife) and not knowing what else to do after that, I took a slash to my left thigh. The guy was close enough to run it through my stomach so he probably had never used a knife before either.....
Anyhow, the cut to my leg was quite long but not extremely deep. It went through my jeans and opened up to my subcutaneous fat layer, and bled profusely on my walk home. The scar is impressive but the wound was superficial in retrospect, although I never showed my parents or got medical attention. It hurt like hell and took months to heal right
because it kept tearing open.
Seeing that my state denies the right to carry a firearm I have continued to carry a knife for self defense, even though it's very small and utilitarian (Spydercard). I only mention this because my Spydercard is only capable of wounds like those, and it's a very poor choice for a fighting weapon. I am a cook and have taken swipes at large meat roasts to see the wounding potential of my knife and they are very similar in depth to the cuts in those pictures.
I have carried the Spydercard for nearly 5 years and previously used it to open dozens of shipping boxes a day.... but a few weeks ago I was warned by a supervisor that using it as such could get me in serious trouble for brandishing a concealed weapon.
Now..... considering that everyone in the kitchen has knives in their hands, knives in their pockets, knives in the drawers, and rows of knives on every wall...... why is anyone concerned about a non-ballistic 2" folding knife inside my pocket?
Bart Noir
Member
Sean, Illinois is rather repressive when it comes to concealed weapons. You answered your own question just by being there. Sorry if I offended you, I'm from a DuPage Co. family but have my views......
Bart Noir
The Freeholder
Member
Man, that's going to be a lot of stitches...
A book that I'm reading had some interesting wisdom on knife fights--goes something like this:
Q: What do you have when there are two men having a knife fight?
A: One man that will be dead soon and one that will wish he was.
A book that I'm reading had some interesting wisdom on knife fights--goes something like this:
Q: What do you have when there are two men having a knife fight?
A: One man that will be dead soon and one that will wish he was.
Bart Noir said:
Bart,
I understand that you are from a DuPage County family, but have you ever actually checked to see what the Illinois Revised Statutes say about knives?
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...eqEnd=53000000&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961.
Unless you're carrying a switchblade, everything rests on intent to use unlawfully against another. Sean's supervisor was either referring to company policy or very ignorant of Ilinois law.
Jeff
Bart,
I understand that you are from a DuPage County family, but have you ever actually checked to see what the Illinois Revised Statutes say about knives?
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...eqEnd=53000000&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961.
Unless you're carrying a switchblade, everything rests on intent to use unlawfully against another. Sean's supervisor was either referring to company policy or very ignorant of Ilinois law.
Jeff
Seen some truly horrific wounds caused by glass fragments.
The knife slashes are survivable, though if you got cut up like that you might find fighting difficult. Good thing we have adrenaline...
Not that I want to get cut up with any object to any degree.
Some common objects can be held in your hand without raising suspicion and can help you if you find yourself in the middle of a bad situation.
Flashlights, clipboards, various hand tools... use your imagination.
And once it starts, do not stop until you either get a good chance to break contact or you have beaten your attacker down to the ground. Either way, protect your important areas and hurt his.
The knife slashes are survivable, though if you got cut up like that you might find fighting difficult. Good thing we have adrenaline...
Not that I want to get cut up with any object to any degree.
Some common objects can be held in your hand without raising suspicion and can help you if you find yourself in the middle of a bad situation.
Flashlights, clipboards, various hand tools... use your imagination.
And once it starts, do not stop until you either get a good chance to break contact or you have beaten your attacker down to the ground. Either way, protect your important areas and hurt his.
Headless Thompson Gunner
Member
Does anyone know anything at all about how this attack played out?
How does a man get cut up that badly on his back? Why weren't any of the wounds in vital locations like the neck? Why no stab wounds? Were his arms or hands cut in any way? What kind of knife was used?
Who managed to stop the fight and how'd they do it?
How does a man get cut up that badly on his back? Why weren't any of the wounds in vital locations like the neck? Why no stab wounds? Were his arms or hands cut in any way? What kind of knife was used?
Who managed to stop the fight and how'd they do it?
Yup, I think so. The chest shot shows a person with the same amount of body fat and body hair as the other two. The wound is also consistent with the other wounds. I'd say it's the same guy.
I showed this to a couple of buddies who are COs. It's definitely a prison. The both recognized the victim's shorts as being standard issue, and they both noticed the keys and restraint chain hanging from the belt of the man with the tie in the back shot. Both thought that the cutting was done with a razor blade. Both were VERY surprised by the extent of the injuries because a good sharp razor blade is pretty hard to come by in prison. They pull all kinds of improvised weapons off the inmates (even improvised firearms, but it's rare), but a proper blade is extremely rare. One made mention of it possibly being a low-security unit where trustee inmates may have access to tools. A good sharp planer blade or something similar would make that kind of wound.
I forgot to ask what the stab vests are made from, but the COs are very well protected in the torso area with the stab vests. The inmates generally do not have access to materials to make a solid stabbing weapon, and sharpened toothbrushes don't have a chance against the vest. That said, it's generally only the CERT team (they're the whompin' guys with gas masks) that routinely wears the stab protection.
Good argument in the ongoing debate between stabbing and slashing. That guys is actually sitting upright under his own power on an exam table despite the severity of his injuries. Those wounds took a lot of effort to inflict (i wouldnt be supprised if he were laying on the ground for some of them) and they wouldnt even have stopped him if he were an attacker. I say stabbing is the way to go if you actually want someone to stop moving.
Jim March
Member
Well there IS a "cut the tendons and break the machine" theory advocated by some and while I don't think it's the SOLE answer it's a tool in the toolbox.
But this sure as hell ain't it. This is...I dunno, looks like unfocused berzerker rage with a small but SHARP weapon.
It's stupidity in action.
But this sure as hell ain't it. This is...I dunno, looks like unfocused berzerker rage with a small but SHARP weapon.
It's stupidity in action.
Beren
Moderator Emeritus
I thought the same when I saw the wounds. Given the way they were able to carve this guy up, either they didn't have a chance to finish him off due to intervention by guards, or they didn't intend to kill him.
Horsesense
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The wounds on the back seem to be deeper on one end than the other, but alternating, as in cutting from right to left and then left to right, then a bottom to top cut.
I’m thinking that the wounds would be consistent with the victim having his arms locked around the slathers waste and the slather trying to make him let go. If the slather was left handed, the chest wound could be a reach around from the same position. The chest wound most likely did skip off of the ribs and the back wounds look like two of them probably contacted the shoulder blade and the other one likely contacted ribs down low, so its hard to say how long the blade was. If I’m correct about the position, than the wounds would be consistent with a stab with a short blade and then the cut.
I’m thinking that the wounds would be consistent with the victim having his arms locked around the slathers waste and the slather trying to make him let go. If the slather was left handed, the chest wound could be a reach around from the same position. The chest wound most likely did skip off of the ribs and the back wounds look like two of them probably contacted the shoulder blade and the other one likely contacted ribs down low, so its hard to say how long the blade was. If I’m correct about the position, than the wounds would be consistent with a stab with a short blade and then the cut.
PCGS65 said:
The human body isnt a big sack full of blood. The blood supply is kept to a pretty specific system of plumbing, and if that isnt damaged then you wont bleed out. That plumbing is kept pretty far from the surface in most places for very good reason. People are built to deal with superficial damage.
Roundeyesamurai
Member
I wish I had gotten to this thread sooner, before there were three pages of agreement about the authenticity of the photos.
They're photoshop, folks.
Real wounds do not have edges that clean and straight (especially not when they converge perpendicularly, as in the case of the tattooed individual, where the points of the two wounds converge at his shoulder).
If these were real wounds, then why would any hospital staff leave them exposed to air? We would see them either bloody (before being cleaned), or bandaged, or being sutured. Large lacerations like those are NOT left open (especially since movement could cause them to tear open further).
And whomever said "Why aren't we seeing bone?" is more or less correct: with wounds that deep, we would be seeing fat, or muscle, or bone. This actually provides the proof that they are photoshop- what you are seeing is the inner layer of the skin, like what you see if you have an open cut that is healing.
Someone took small cuts (in the process of healing), removed the edges, blew them up, and photoshopped them onto photos of people actually in hospital settings.
To be perfectly blunt, this sort of hoax is par for "The Gun Zone".
They're photoshop, folks.
Real wounds do not have edges that clean and straight (especially not when they converge perpendicularly, as in the case of the tattooed individual, where the points of the two wounds converge at his shoulder).
If these were real wounds, then why would any hospital staff leave them exposed to air? We would see them either bloody (before being cleaned), or bandaged, or being sutured. Large lacerations like those are NOT left open (especially since movement could cause them to tear open further).
And whomever said "Why aren't we seeing bone?" is more or less correct: with wounds that deep, we would be seeing fat, or muscle, or bone. This actually provides the proof that they are photoshop- what you are seeing is the inner layer of the skin, like what you see if you have an open cut that is healing.
Someone took small cuts (in the process of healing), removed the edges, blew them up, and photoshopped them onto photos of people actually in hospital settings.
To be perfectly blunt, this sort of hoax is par for "The Gun Zone".
Q-Lock
Member
...not sure I'm able to buy that theory roundeye. I'm interested to see how all of this unfolds now though. It looks real enough to me, even if the medical staff shouldn't have left the wounds exposed to air....perhaps you don't know the whole story. I don't know even half the story, so I'm interested, as I said before, as to how this will unfold.
Quinten
Quinten
Roundeyesamurai
Member
Q-Lock said:
We can tell most of the story from the photos themselves.
That said, if any representative of TGZ would care to tell us where they obtained the photos (hmm...), that would go a long way toward establishing whether or not they are genuine.
Grape Ape
Member
exposed wounds
I suspect that the wounds were covered (you can see bloody bandages in some of the pics) but were exposed for the camera. Jail or no, LE is going to want some pics.
I suspect that the wounds were covered (you can see bloody bandages in some of the pics) but were exposed for the camera. Jail or no, LE is going to want some pics.
Roundeyesamurai
Member
Grape Ape said:
Of course there is gauze with blood on it- tattoo guy especially looked like he was already pretty banged up, before the photoshop wound was inserted.
The primary evidence that this is a photoshop job isn't the lack of coverings on the wounds. The primary evidence is the appearance of the wounds themselves- they don't look like real wounds. They look "real enough" to convince most people, but they aren't real.
Here's the underlying problem with "information" on The Gun Zone (among other sites)- they provide information which, while fabricated, supports a position which is either very correct, or feels very correct to certain people.
While it is certainly true that knives can be just as dangerous, or perhaps even more so, than firearms (at contact distance), and it is important to make people aware of this fact, that is still no excuse for fabricating "proof" of the fact.
Preacherman
Member
Roundeye, I don't believe that these are fakes. I've seen similar injuries many times while working in corrections, as have many LEO's and corrections officers. The setting is authentic, the medical care consistent with what would be given in a prison's sick bay, and the nature of the cuts is very much in line with the slashing wounds inflicted by a prison shank. (These can be surprisingly sharp - I've seen shanks made from an AC ventilation cover, and the thin aluminum, once sharpened, would put many a butcher's cleaver to shame!)
Roundeyesamurai
Member
Preacherman said:
And you're presuming I haven't, under precisely the same conditions.
Here's the problem: How often do you actually STUDY such wounds? It's one thing to look at it, say "oh yeah, he got f*cked up pretty good", snap a photo and be done with it.
Preacherman said:
The setting is authentic because the photos really were taken in such an environment. As far as the wounds- well, I did say it was a GOOD photoshop job.
Preacherman said:
I know.
Reference the last two paragraphs of my last post, regarding the plausibility of "information" from TGZ.
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