WI: need young, attractive females

[Barbara]

he could say that he does not want females there at all. At least he is wanting females there IMO.

Please, read that about a dozen times. At *least* he wants females there? Well, of course he does! They gave us the vote finally, remember?

The day I become grateful for the opportunity to do something like that is the day I hope I'm drug out back and shot because my brains will have been fried and any sense of dignity I've ever had will have been long gone.

Anyway. I really do have the sewing to do. Have fun!

 

[jdkelly]

This thread is funny, it really is.

On one hand you have Monekeyleg asking about getting attractive females to lure in prospective customers, a long used ploy in the gun industry (and every other industry).

On the other hand you have Nematocyst finding this to be base behavior, and contrary to the evidence of many decades he believes that sex doesn’t sell in the gun industry.

And on the third hand (hmmm) we have Barbra who feels it’s an idiot idea, exploits (attractive) women and will alienate the female base, even though I’d bet that attractive women are used to sell almost everything she owns.

I ‘d like to point to Mike Dillon of Dillon Precision, a very strong pro 2nd Amendment advocate who’s know for his “If you don’t vote like a gun owner you s*ck” quote, and his monthly reloading catalog as evidence that sex, guns and the 2nd Amendment do mix.

http://dillonprecision.com/default.cfm?

Mr. Dillon has a large following of the very best shooters (male and female) in today’s actions sports.

Just food for thought.


Respectfully,

jdkelly

 

[1911Tuner]

Sellin'

Old Fuff spoke:

>Monkeyleg's well known reputation on this forum should be enough to make it clear that he isn't interested in sleeze.<
************************

Agreed. Never seen that from him...ever.

>>And there is nothing wrong with young ladies being attractive. He did say "ladies" after all. A lady can be attractive and not seen in a context of selling sex. I suspect that all of us know ladies that we consider to be attractive, and yet don't consider sex to be any part of the picture.<<
******************

Agree again. It's probably an insult to the ladies to suggest that all they've got to sell WITH is T&A. Public relations, personality and being able to converse with people are also important aspects of the job.

I mean, if you've got a Ford pickup truck exhibit at a new auto show, who ya gonna stand out there with the trucks...Shania Twain or Larry the Cable Guy?

Actually, I'm more partial to Debra Winger and Mary McDonnell. (I tell ya, I don't care who ya are...Them there's two purty wimmin! )

 

[jdkelly]

sorry, double post

 

[pax]

jdkelly ~

I submit that there is a huge difference between using attractive human beings -- of both sexes -- to attract other human beings, and using T&A to attract males.

Since males are the primary buying demographic for guns, it is unsurprising that many sellers (such as Dillon) have pandered to males using as much T&A as anyone in the mainstream would stomach. IMO, it's very disrespectful to your own wives and daughters to think of women as merely eye candy to drool over (Do you want your daughter treated that way?), but there's no denying that T&A advertising works very well when the targeted audience is male.

But ...

The primary RKBA voting demographic is nothing but male old pharts ... some of whom will die of heart attacks this year, and then who's going to replace their votes? If we want to retain our rights, we have to lure young and older women and young guys to join our side of the vote. Have to.

Females need to be considered part of our primary audience.

I submit that T&A salesmanship is not the way to attract the other 50% of the voting public to our cause. T&A salesmanship repulses many women, or at least doesn't attract them. So it's self defeating -- especially at a political fundraiser.

But I really don't think that's what Monkeyleg had in mind!

pax

 

[Barbara]

To be fair, I respect the heck out of Dick's efforts in Wisconsin and know how hard he works on the cause. In this case, I disagree with him, strongly, but over all, he does a thankless job and deserves a lot of credit.

 

[Owen]

Not only do men buy more from pretty women, women do too.

I used to work on Friends of the NRA dinners in New England. One of the old codgers on the comittee was a stats nut. We were paying our hired help (usually Bud Girls from the local distibutor) a flat hourly rate and a portion of the proceeds from the tickets they sold. We also had a bunch of people from the committee selling tickets, some of them women, and some of them guys.

We ended up having about a 50/50 male/female mix.

This was also a fairly upscale event. Ties and sportcoats was the recomended attire, and most people wore suits. We highly encouraged men to bring their wives/girlfriends, because at previous dinners, we had discovered that accompanied men spent, on average, 2x the money on auctions. (I think it's because the boss was right there, so they could get permission)

Anyways, codger was curious. We set it up so women got tickets from one series of numbers, and men got tickets from another series. The tickets were the same color, just different sets of numbers.

About 40% of the people at the dinner were women. They bought 85% of their tickets from the Bud Girls.

 

[Jeff Timm]

I wondered about "exploitation" when an FOP organization pushed membership flyers at a gun show employing a waitress from Hooters (TM)

Now this is Florida, where legal secretaries were less to work than the above referenced waitresses, and many of the women in attendance wore similar outfits (some of whom should not have.)

But, it worked and got a much better response than ever. I strongly suspect we do not live in an ideal world.

I've also noted a local heavy sales gunshop which employs three or four attractive young women (I've been told two are daughters of the owner) to do the most obnoxious part of firearm sales, the background check and paperwork. When they shop is busy men and women customers are much more tolerant of delays than they are of males doing the same job at another high volume shop in the area.

Could it be women are better at interpersonal relationships?

Geoff
Who figures if it works, don't knock it.

 

[Barbara]

So we should make no efforts to change anything, just because its effective? The ends justify the means?

Not for me.

Heck, slaves were a cost effective way of gathering sugar cane. Burning heretics was a good way to keep the money rolling into the medievel church. Forcefully infecting institutionalized people with germs was a good way to study illness.

Etc.

 

[Barbara]

Are you guys really saying I'm better at interpersonal relationships?

Awww..


I don't disagree though..women are traditionally raised to be more caring about others and better able to make them feel comfortable. I don't necessarily agree that's a good thing, but it is a fact that women (some of us!) are better at smoothing over difficult situations?

Me? I'm a battle axe, and I'm fine with that. I live life on my own terms, you know?

 

[sm]

.

 

[pax]

Barbara ~

Did you really just ethically equate a free employment contract, freely entered into, with slavery and coerced participation in medical experiments?

Surely not.

pax

 

[Barbara]

If you mean, did I equate things that were accepted once as a matter of course, but are now recognized as completely unethical? Then yes, I did. Unashamedly.

But obviously, yes, its a contract made of free will, where the others weren't. What bothers me is that anyone would be willing to make that contract (and then say they'd be grateful for being able to attend!) And to me, the ends does not justify the means. For each of those things, there were advantages. Did the advantages outweigh the ethics? Nope.

 

[Rembrandt]

After 35 years of marriage I still fail to understand how female logic works.....one minute they doll themselves up to get our attention, next minute complain about being used as eye candy......(excuse me while I hunker down for incoming)

 

[Big Gay Al]

By the way, for those of you who have not yet met Barbara, she's not fat, nor is she ugly.

She can hawk wares at my table any day. (ducking)

 

[Barbara]

Cripes, Al..next thing you know, you'll be telling them I'm actually fairly easy to get along with and that I like men.

Although I dont' think fat and/or ugly are that big a deal. I'd prefer capable and accomplished to cute. God made me who I am, and thankfully, he gave me some useful gifts like ambition and the ability to stand up for what I believe.

There's no such thing as female logic. We're not the Borg. Some women like attention. Some don't. Some men like attention. Some don't.

(heh..actually, I do like men. And not wimpy men. I don't like wimpy people in general, which is failing on my part and one I'm trying to get over.)

 

['Card]

Geez, talk about over-complicating an issue...

Booth babes work. If they didn't, why on earth would virtually ever significant company at virtually every significant event use them? Sometimes they're in skimpy outifits and designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Sometimes they're professionally attired and intended to appeal to a different audience. Either way. Doesn't matter. They get results, with both female and male customers, or they wouldn't be hired for the job.

As for whether or not it's demeaning? Why don't we leave that question to the women who would actually be doing it? I'm fairly certain that if they felt they were being used or objectified beyond what they're comfortable with, then they'd be unwilling to participate.

Or are we going to dismiss their opinion entirely just because they're girls?

 

[Barbara]

I bet there were colonists who didn't mind that pesky extra stamp tax, too.

 

[thumper723]

Jeff,

Were you referring to the last show at the Shriners Auditorium, and Shooters?

(FWIW, my wife saw $540 from SHOOTERS on the bank statement, and demanded to know why I spent that much at HOOTERS. She later laughed about having a "blonde moment")

As far as having decent looking women (not models, not ugly, you know, normal women) at a table, I have no problem with it. When I was at the last gun show, my wife was afraid to ask questions to the men working the tables, but had no problem talking to the women vendors.

I think Monkeyleg is asking a perfectly rational question, and his reasoning is sound. The benefits are two fold, as women will be less afraid to come up to and talk to other women, and men would rather talk to a woman than another balding guy.

 

[thumper723]

Oh yeah, I've already donned an Aramid Flight Suit, flame on

 

[4v50 Gary]

Thumper723 said: (FWIW, my wife saw $540 from SHOOTERS on the bank statement, and demanded to know why I spent that much at HOOTERS. She later laughed about having a "blonde moment")

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Thank you for sharing that with us. Like yourself, I can also drop five bills on guns or accessories but not on any burger joint no matter how pretty the waitresses are.

 

[Tiny in Ohio]

I am sorry to write this, but I find Barbara's posts to this topic as despicable. I am new to this forum, but not to guns or the 2A. My father and grandfather owned a gun bluing business when I was a child, and I have been around guns ALL my life. At the same time I have an MBA, so I am an educated male. Enough about me.

Barbara comes to this post and starts the female tirade about using women as a means of attracting males to an event, and how she loathes the thought. Which is fine, and I must say laudable. But her posts over the last page have fallen right back to the female disposition, "I have sewing to do". Then she starts playing the female light hearted individual, joking with other posters. Opposite ends of the spectrum.

Please take a stance and stick with it, on one hand you are the staunch female rights activist, then you fall back to the common airhead misconception. Pick a stance and stick with it, it will definately make you more appreciated, as well as lending credibility to your issues.

 

[1911Tuner]

Stance

Howdy Tiny, and welcome in.

I think Barbara's switch probably came after she cooled a little rather than
as a fence-straddle deal. Many topics here are hot buttons for some...and most lighten up after havin' their say.

The way I see this one is this:

Monkeyleg asked for volunteers to "man" an exhibition booth. He asked for a specific gender and named a specific criteria, as is his right. After all...it's HIS
idea and HIS show....and his ideas as to how he wanted to present it. He doesn't have to provide a balanced representation of all segments of the population, since it's a private arrangement. The choice lies with the potential recruits. They can respond or not. Ain't that America?

The thread then started to head due south, because it punched a few of aforementioned hot buttons. In other words...a veer off-topic at best, and a straight-up hijack at worst. This is often a reason that a moderator will enter the fray with a (hopefully) rational/calming comment or two as a means of letting the participants know that it's drawn attention and warning signals have been noted...and that it could reach critical mass momentarily. Since these things sometimes degrade into personal attacks and/or insults...it's a means of avoiding having to warn or ban anyone for a cardinal rule violation.
It usually works, and allows cooler heads to prevail. I'm hesitant to ban, and would rather take a poke with a sharp stick than ban a contributing member who slips once and lets a topic or another member get under his/her skin...and hit REPLY before he/she has had time to think it through. Once it's said, it can't be un-said.

Cheers all!

 

[jdkelly]

I submit that there is a huge difference between using attractive human beings -- of both sexes -- to attract other human beings, and using T&A to attract males.

No not really, if it’s okay to use attractive human beings –of both sexes- then it’s okay to use only one as needed.

Since males are the primary buying demographic for guns, it is unsurprising that many sellers (such as Dillon) have pandered to males using as much T&A as anyone in the mainstream would stomach. IMO, it's very disrespectful to your own wives and daughters to think of women as merely eye candy to drool over (Do you want your daughter treated that way?), but there's no denying that T&A advertising works very well when the targeted audience is male.

What’s the difference if one of Dillon’s models is holding a gun product or perfume? None! T&A works very well when the targeted audience is female also, most things sold to women are sold to them by beautiful young women. Men have no monopoly on being taken in by beauty and sex. As for how I’d want a wife (not married) or daughter to be treated would depend on what THEY wanted, I’m for women’s choice and I don’t like others making that choice for them (either male of female). I have no desire to control what any female member of my family chooses to do, I trust them.

But ...
The primary RKBA voting demographic is nothing but male old pharts ... some of whom will die of heart attacks this year, and then who's going to replace their votes?

Some would think that is very cold and insulting, but as an old male phart who could die of a heart attack this year personally I don’t mind as I don’t need you pander to me.

If we want to retain our rights, we have to lure young and older women and young guys to join our side of the vote. Have to.
Females need to be considered part of our primary audience.

Yes they should and are.

I submit that T&A salesmanship is not the way to attract the other 50% of the voting public to our cause. T&A salesmanship repulses many women, or at least doesn't attract them. So it's self defeating -- especially at a political fundraiser.

As stated above much of what women buy is marketed by T&A, pretty young things, an image call it what you will. If a person is put off because a pretty woman is at a table to increase sales then that’s her problem.

But I really don't think that's what Monkeyleg had in mind!

No neither do I but I don’t have a problem with that.


Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[SavageEMT]

Am I the only one that notices "attractive young women" are used to sell products to men AND women?

I'm not insulted by a pretty face and a matching rifle, so long as she knows what she's doing with it!