Will .45 +P, .45 Super and .45 Colt +P have commercial success?

[worker]

It seems that high pressure cartridges that are designed not to chamber in barrels that are marked for their low-pressure equivalents, do better on the market.
Eg .44 Mag, .357 Mag.

But for .45 ACP and .45 Colt, their +P equivalents are not designed 'not-to-chamber' in pre 90s guns.
That in, my view, is holding back .45 Super and the 33K PSI .45 colt rounds.

Is there a clear 'universally' accepted designation for recently manufactured guns that clearly state that they will work with .45 Super and the 33k PSI .45 colt rounds?

 

[Jim Watson]

Not likely.
.45 Super is the product of a gunzine writer's fevered imagination and a gunsmith beefing up guns to handle it. Reading at http://www.45super.com/

Likewise there is no SAAMI Spec for .45 Colt +P, it is just an overload a heavily built gun will stand.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Define success?

They are very popular for woods carry. Underwood and Buffalo Bore sell a lot of premium dangerous game ammo.

 

[1KPerDay]

What do you mean “will they”? They haven’t really… and there’s no real reason that they suddenly should in the future, is there? Niche market and will stay that way.

 

[JohnKSa]

They are very popular for woods carry.

Really? That's kind of surprising. Even among gunny folks, I would have guessed that they would be relatively low on any popularity list, including the list of woods carry calibers. I suppose .45ACP+P might be the exception there.

But for .45 ACP and .45 Colt, their +P equivalents are not designed 'not-to-chamber' in pre 90s guns.

I think that this is not correct.

There may be some ammo marked .45 Colt +P (there's not really an official +P designation for .45 Colt) that is loaded in such a way that it will only chamber in certain revolvers due to cylinder length limitations, but I don't think that's due to a 1990's cutoff date.

As far as I know, .45ACP+P will chamber in any firearm chambered for .45ACP.

 

[WisBorn]

The 45acp +p & 45 colt + p are more about the firearms that will reliable fire them.
Springfield XDM 45acp will handle the additional pressure of +p loads. In addition to a few other pistols from HK and Glock. The XDM is also used for 45 super with a couple of modifications.
The 45 Colt +p shines in the Ruger Redhawk and Blackhawk. Many of Colt SAA clones will not handle the additional pressure. The Bond Arms Rowdy states that they are not rated for the +p loads in the owners manual.

This is not much different than the 9mm +p loads. Check your owners manual. My Kimber R7 Mako identifies that +p loads can be used, but will reduce the life of the recoil spring.
The only handguns that I remember stamping +p on them is small revolvers like the 442 and 637 are two examples.

As far as commercial success? I will continue to use Underwood 45acp +p 255gr hardcast in my XDM compact. Accuracy is good and recoil is manageable. The +p loads make the 45acp a good choice for hiking.

 

[AlexanderA]

But for .45 ACP and .45 Colt, their +P equivalents are not designed 'not-to-chamber' in pre 90s guns.
That in, my view, is holding back .45 Super and the 33K PSI .45 colt rounds.

Where is the market demand? Who is complaining about lack of power in the original .45 ACP and .45 LC loads?

If anything, there is a demand for downloaded .45 LC for cowboy competitions.

I don't see this as being commercially viable.

 

[Jim Watson]

The only standardized +P loads are 9mm, .38 Special, and .45 ACP. (.38 Super +P and .257 Roberts +P are horses of a different color.)
They are APPROXIMATELY 10% higher pressure than standard, which is unlikely to harm a sound pistol.
So the question is, is the increased recoil, blast, and wear and tear worth it to you?

The so-called .45 Colt +P or "Ruger only" stuff can run to double or more the black powder equivalent SAAMI standard load pressure.
Better follow the vendors' recommendations on that.

 

[Riomouse911]

Ace Custom .45’s pretty much killed the commercial interest in the .45 Super when they registered the trademark for “.45 Super” and got into issues with ammo makers, gun makers and conversion kit makers, etc. I guess Ace Custom wanted everything to go through them (probably for royalties) and the others said no thanks.



I bought my V-16 .45 Super when Springfield first offered them, I bought ammo from Triton and Texas Ammunition Co. and the gun shoots really well. I still have a few boxes, the Texas Ammo uses plain Starline brass and Triton used nickel cases with Triton headstamps.



The .45 Super will always be a niche round with a very narrow popularity band.

Stay safe.

 

[LiveLife]

Will .45 +P, .45 Super and .45 Colt +P have commercial success?

While I like .45Super, not likely as having shot .460 Rowland with same case length as .45ACP, may have greater chance for caliber acceptance.

What I do seeing having commercial success is 9mm Major popularized by John Wich 3 movie and USPSA major power factor match shooters. Imagine PCC chambered for 9mm Major ... Watch out .350 Legend (9x43mm).

 

[CapnMac]

I guess Ace Custom wanted everything to go through them

That's a guess I can go along with.

And, had they been smart, they would have gone to an ammo maker and ginned up an "11.5mm+P" or "11.5super" in, like 11.43x24 or 11.43x25mm dimensions. That could have been trademarked, possibly patented, and would make for e unique niche in the niche market that is always in the "gun world." Sticking to 11.43/451 offers more than century's worth of existing projectiles, so that they could focus entirely on chamber pressures and MV/ME values.

Mind, the "huge success" of the .50 GI might temper enthusiasm.
That, and the similar "success" of the 45gap which never emerged as a "38spl" equivalent.

 

[reddog81]

Where is the market demand? Who is complaining about lack of power in the original .45 ACP and .45 LC loads?

If anything, there is a demand for downloaded .45 LC for cowboy competitions.

I don't see this as being commercially viable.

I think this is correct. If the demand was there you’d see more higher powered options. For .45 Colt, the 454 Casull round is basically the magnum version. Rounds like the .450 Win Mag have existed for semi-autos but just never took off because it will always be a niche market.

 

[Anchorite]

I have a 4506 set up to run 45 Super. After years of shooting it, all I can say is “meh.” A 230gr +P will do probably 90% of what the Super will do. YMMV

 

[.308 Norma]

But for .45 ACP and .45 Colt, their +P equivalents are not designed 'not-to-chamber' in pre 90s guns.

Is there a clear 'universally' accepted designation for recently manufactured guns that clearly state that they will work with .45 Super and the 33k PSI .45 colt rounds?

I don't understand what "pre 90s" and "recently manufactured guns" have to do with "+P" .45 Colt ammo. I'm sure I have several "pre 90s" reloading manuals downstairs (but I'm too lazy to go down there and look for them) and I have a 1980 Hornady reloading manual sitting in front of me that lists a lot (28 to be exact) of "Ruger & TC Only" .45 Colt loads.
On the other hand, I don't think I have any reloading manuals that list .45 Colt loads for "post 90s" and "recently manufactured" guns only.
BTW, I don't like to shoot many "Ruger Only" loads in my old .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk. It's not because I'm worried that my Ruger Blackhawk won't handle them though. It's that I don't like to shoot many hot loads in my .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk because they make the tendonitis in my WAY "pre 90s" right elbow act up.

 

[DeepSouth]

What do you mean “will they”? They haven’t really… and there’s no real reason that they suddenly should in the future, is there? Niche market and will stay that way.

That’s kind of my thinking, they’ve all been around a while so if they haven’t yet, they probably want.

Of course I’d have said that about the 5.7x28 just a couple years back, now I still hold to that but with much less confidence.

I will say I occasionally shoot 45 Super’s in my 25-2. And I really wish they’d take off, then maybe we’d see them in some revolvers which would be the only ones I’d care about.

PS: Liability waver:
I do not advise or imply that you should shoot 45 super in your 25-2. Do so at your own risk, against my advice.

 

[TTv2]

Meh, hot .45 Colt is easily reloaded at home and most modern brass is built for the pressure, so I don't see the point of factories ramping up production for it. .45+P isn't that uncommon, but it's sort of what's it do that standard .45 ACP doesn't? .45 Super is a different story, significantly more power than .45 ACP, requires a fully supported chamber and heavier recoil spring, very few stock factory pistols support the .45 Super and with the 10mm already established I don't see a market opening up for the .45 Super. It had its chance in the 90s to replace the 10mm and failed.

I don't see the .45 Super ever breaking out, the industry doesn't have a reason to bother with it and frankly what's moving the handgun market isn't power, it's capacities, which to increase capacity requires a reduction in caliber.

 

[Zahn]

I reloaded some .45 ACP up to +P and fired it in my FNX-45, which is rated for that. I wasn't impressed. It was louder and had more recoil, but other than that... I like to train as I plan to use it. If I need to use a firearm in a critical situation, and if I can get my point of impact on the intended target, I'm sure my standard loads will have the same net result as a +P load.